Brodhead Pietenpol Association

taildrags

Makes me want to build one. I've done a lot of work on them, but never built one from scratch. So enjoyable to work on these planes.

-Oscar

taildrags

Keep that T-88 flowing...

-Oscar

taildrags

There is much to admire and appreciate about Mr. Pietenpol's Air Camper. Simple but strong; not flashy but still timeless. Affordable, but not "cheap".

-Oscar

taildrags

Good to see you back at it, Richard. Steady progress wins the day.

-Oscar

taildrags

Roger, three-four kilo papa. Proceed on course.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford OR

taildrags

What stage of construction is the airplane in? A couple of photos would help others understand what might be needed in the way of materials or skills or both.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Got it. And if it's any consolation, pretty much anything in or on the passenger's seat is directly on the CG, so it won't affect the balance if you add weight there. In my W&B spreadsheet, I ran what-ifs to test the forward and aft CG limits. With the lightest possible pilot solo in the pilot's ...

taildrags

Interesting detail: the tapered wedges that slope the front seat bottom just a tad. Improves the pax comfort over a flat seat bottom. Was it originally that way, or is that improvement yours?

-Oscar

taildrags

N41CC, weighed with 3 qts of oil, prop, and its Cont A75 engine, no electrics and no starter, was 636 lbs. This is very close to what Mike Cuy's Piet weighs as well. They can be built light.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Douglas fir has been used in quite a few Piets, NX41CC included. Weighs just a tad more than spruce, is just a tad stronger than spruce in some respects, doesn't work quite as nicely as spruce sometimes, but is FAR easier to find and at less cost.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Are you building a new plane, or looking to replace some existing struts? If new, you might consider the extruded aluminum streamline struts that used to be from Carlson, now available from Wicks Aircraft Supply.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

The same happened to NX41CC. I repaired the seat front twice during the time that I owned the plane, and the last time I did that I also added some supplementary framing similar to what you've done to provide more glued surface area to transfer the load from the plywood to the framing. I should also ...

taildrags

There will be at least two factors to take into account: (1) how high can you comfortably step, and (2) will you be shifting the wing aft on the cabanes. If you shift the wing, you'll probably have to incorporate a flop panel into the trailing edge of your wing so you can get into the cockpit, or ...

taildrags

It looks like an Air Camper rudder bar

-Oscar Z.

taildrags

Are you thinking of mechanical brakes, or hydraulic? Both have been done. Although I no longer own it, my Air Camper had a rudder bar and toe-operated hydraulic brakes. The brake masters were from a Cessna 172 and the wheels/ brakes were Clevelands from a Bonanza. Tires were 6.00x6 Aero Trainers ...

taildrags

I have not heard of any, Tim. There is a likelihood that the reason for that is that far fewer examples of Sky Scouts have been built and flown than there have been Air Campers, and also that many (most-?) Sky Scout builders have implemented some of the tweaks that Air Camper builders and pilots ...

taildrags

Tim, it sounds like you have studied the plans and other examples of the airplanes enough to get an excellent handle on what goes into building them. You are way ahead of the game!

-Oscar

taildrags

Since the Scout is a single-place, there are some things about the Air Camper than won't play into your build. Most of the rest of it should be much the same, although the classic setup for the main landing gear on a Scout is different from what it is on the Air Camper, in that the Scout has the ...

taildrags

Welcome, Tim. It will be interesting to hear & see what you intend to implement in your build of a Scout. Well, as long as it doesn't involve beta thrust or Cat IIIc instrument approach capability

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Looks like you're going about it the right way, which is "do it right the first time and you won't have to do it again". Steady as she goes!

-Oscar Zuniga
Medford,OR

taildrags

The workmanship on that plane looks impeccable, Dan. Talk about a perfect fit of the cowling aluminum around the cabane tube!

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

NX41CC, same thing. Screwed directly to the longerons using PK screws.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Richard; you became a celebrity the day you acquired three four kilo papa and began your Pietenpol journey. But hey, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of publicity. Back when Mr. Pietenpol first flew his Air Camper, television was just becoming commercially viable, so your radio interview this ...

taildrags

I am certainly not in it for the money. I'm in it for Pietenpol builders! However, I must say that people who supply the hinges in finished form do a beautiful job with the hinges that they sell. I also offer the oval Air Camper data plates that Brian Amato used to offer in aluminum (and may still ...

taildrags

It depends on what you're looking for. One source out there can provide you with complete, finished, nicely executed pairs of hinges and for a Piet, you'll need 9 pairs (3 pairs on each elevator and 3 pairs on the rudder). If you're willing to work with as-cast blanks and perform the hand operations ...

taildrags

I think it's quite common in open-cockpit airplanes to just read static pressure at the back of the instrument rather than running a tube from an actual static port on the exterior skin, but I'll let others chime in.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Some very interesting and useful ideas here. I'm not a Model A engine guy but the ideas are useful nevertheless.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Nice progress-!

-Oscar

taildrags

I see that little wedge shim filler at the bottom

Nice work.

-Oscar

taildrags

Richard; the area that I had some problems with over the years that I flew N41CC was the front seat's front face vertical support plywood. On more than one occasion it got kicked by the pilot hard enough to break the plywood free (not by me though). I finally ended up tearing out the entire assembly ...

taildrags

Wish I could remember the young fellow's name, but in any case you can go to the search box in the upper RH corner of this forum page and enter 'ferrule' or 'tail brace wire' or some such thing and you should be able to find a useful link or two.

-Oscar

taildrags

There are some websites and videos that provide exactly that: step-by-step methodology for making those beautiful wrapped and folded wire ferrules and ends. There was a young builder in this group who is exceptionally talented at making those but I've forgotten his name.
-Oscar

taildrags

Where in SoCal? Scott Liefeld is somewhere over in the Lancaster area, by Palmdale.

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

Doc: still got these plans for sale?

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

taildrags

14 CFR 91.205 covers day VFR flight for U.S. aircraft with standard category airworthiness certification and all it says is that an airspeed indicator is required, period. So if it's good enough for standard category, it should certainly be good enough for experimentals. I suppose you could use a ...

taildrags

Just for the heck of it and for studying where things are relative to one another with the plane in the straight and level position, I've attached a plot of a CAD layout that I did of a conventional Air Camper pretty much by the plans (no brakes; Ford A engine mount; vertical cabanes)- except that I ...

taildrags

I'll bet that fuselage frame is stiffening up nicely, what with the blocking and crosspieces and gussets getting installed. One of the most comforting things about a Piet is the robustness of its basic structural 'cage'.

-Oscar

taildrags

It's a wonder that the entire world isn't held rigidly in place with gussets. Got to have them!

-Oscar

taildrags

They don't call it "working time" for nothing. Spread and smooth on all glue areas for all you're worth... you can feel it starting to get a little tacky... get it into place... lift and shift, align and clamp, unloosen and readjust... hurry! Hurry!. Then it's past the point of no return and you ...

taildrags

Well come on, Richard... floor it!

-Oscar

taildrags

...and who doesn't love a nice piece of wood? Especially if it has an airplane part inside it!

-Oscar

taildrags

Now there's a forward-thinking man...

-Oscar

taildrags

"Do or not do. There is no try." -Yoda

taildrags

Wish I lived closer to you. I have the plywood that you'd need without having to scarf it. I have the plywood for the sides, too. Leftovers from the Piet project that Corky started but never finished.

-Oscar

taildrags

And yet another example of how the simple things are often the most elegant. Very nice detail.

-Oscar

taildrags

The cabane struts on 41CC are the length shown on the plans but since they are slanted aft to adjust the CG, the wing is brought closer to the pilot's head and blocks access to the cockpit just a little more than if they were installed vertically. The plane has a centersection "flop panel" to make ...

taildrags

I think the ones on 41CC were extended a bit but I'll check. They are definitely tilted aft to improve the CG situation.

-Oscar

taildrags

I check daily to see what the latest work is looking like.

-Oscar

taildrags

Yes, I was going to ask, "Would you like gussets with that framing sir?"

-Oscar

taildrags

Richard: even the pyramids were built one stone at a time, and so it is with building an Air Camper. You can't rush this stuff and if you do it right the first time, you'll only have to do it once

Oscar Zuniga
Medford, OR

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