Original Posted By: jcmjones
Subject: Pietenpol-List: center section>>the width of the center section of a 3-piece wing. With the benefit of>your >20/20 hindsight, can you tell me if there are any disadvantages to>increasing >this width? Are there any advantages that are not so obvious? Have you >thought carefully about changes in the loads distributed to attachment >fittings? Were there changes made to the way the spars are connected, or>were >the standard Pietenpol fittings (drawn by Kapler) used without adjustment >(except in the position on the spars).>>>I have a three foot Chad Willie designed center section. The wing attach>fittings & cabane struts are of his design. The advantage of course, is a>larger fuel tank. I have a 16 gal tank. My Piet has been flying since>1988.I am happy with the mod.>If you write to Chad, I am sure he still has prints available.>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: center section
Pietenpol-List: center section
Original Posted By: Michael Conkling
the width of the center section of a 3-piece wing. With the benefit ofyour 20/20 hindsight, can you tell me if there are any disadvantages toincreasing this width? Are there any advantages that are not so obvious? Have you thought carefully about changes in the loads distributed to attachment fittings? Were there changes made to the way the spars are connected, orwere the standard Pietenpol fittings (drawn by Kapler) used without adjustment (except in the position on the spars).>I have a three foot Chad Willie designed center section. The wing attachfittings & cabane struts are of his design. The advantage of course, is alarger fuel tank. I have a 16 gal tank. My Piet has been flying since1988.I am happy with the mod.If you write to Chad, I am sure he still has prints available.________________________________________________________________________________
the width of the center section of a 3-piece wing. With the benefit ofyour 20/20 hindsight, can you tell me if there are any disadvantages toincreasing this width? Are there any advantages that are not so obvious? Have you thought carefully about changes in the loads distributed to attachment fittings? Were there changes made to the way the spars are connected, orwere the standard Pietenpol fittings (drawn by Kapler) used without adjustment (except in the position on the spars).>I have a three foot Chad Willie designed center section. The wing attachfittings & cabane struts are of his design. The advantage of course, is alarger fuel tank. I have a 16 gal tank. My Piet has been flying since1988.I am happy with the mod.If you write to Chad, I am sure he still has prints available.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: center section
Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
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Pietenpol-List: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: William Conway
ANYONE SEE A PROBLEM WITH INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE BULKHEADS FROM 9" TO12" SINCE I'M SO TALL. THE UPPER PORTION OF MY TORSO GETS BLASTED BY THEWINDAND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE MORE COMFORT AND LESSDRAG, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SMALL SWING DOWN DOORS TO THE LONGERONAND INTERGATE THIS IN TO THEINCREASED HEIGHT OF THE FUSELAGE, THIS I''M TOLD WOULD INTERFERE WITHRUDDER AND TAIL FIN SO I WOULD INCREASE HEIGHT ONE BAY..--________________________________________________________________________________
ANYONE SEE A PROBLEM WITH INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE BULKHEADS FROM 9" TO12" SINCE I'M SO TALL. THE UPPER PORTION OF MY TORSO GETS BLASTED BY THEWINDAND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE MORE COMFORT AND LESSDRAG, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SMALL SWING DOWN DOORS TO THE LONGERONAND INTERGATE THIS IN TO THEINCREASED HEIGHT OF THE FUSELAGE, THIS I''M TOLD WOULD INTERFERE WITHRUDDER AND TAIL FIN SO I WOULD INCREASE HEIGHT ONE BAY..--________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie"
I'm 6'2" with a long back. With the combing I've installed around thefront of the cockpit and pad I picked up several more inches in height andfeel the cockpit is cosy. Like others have advised you, I'd be veryconcerned about the impact on the horizontal and vertical stablilizer. I'm now building a Prober Pixie--another highwing parasole. I notice inadvice to the builder that some people have simply installed largerwindshields and this has had an adverse effect on the tail section--andhandling. This suggests to me that this is a sensitive matter. On theother hand, maybe just your bod sticking up may do the same thing as thelarger windshield--how tall are you? >>> Kyle Ray 10/28 10:17 AM >>>ANYONE SEE A PROBLEM WITH INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE BULKHEADS FROM 9" TO12" SINCE I'M SO TALL. THE UPPER PORTION OF MY TORSO GETS BLASTED BY THEWINDAND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE MORE COMFORT AND LESSDRAG, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SMALL SWING DOWN DOORS TO THE LONGERONAND INTERGATE THIS IN TO THEINCREASED HEIGHT OF THE FUSELAGE, THIS I''M TOLD WOULD INTERFERE WITHRUDDER AND TAIL FIN SO I WOULD INCREASE HEIGHT ONE BAY..--________________________________________________________________________________
I'm 6'2" with a long back. With the combing I've installed around thefront of the cockpit and pad I picked up several more inches in height andfeel the cockpit is cosy. Like others have advised you, I'd be veryconcerned about the impact on the horizontal and vertical stablilizer. I'm now building a Prober Pixie--another highwing parasole. I notice inadvice to the builder that some people have simply installed largerwindshields and this has had an adverse effect on the tail section--andhandling. This suggests to me that this is a sensitive matter. On theother hand, maybe just your bod sticking up may do the same thing as thelarger windshield--how tall are you? >>> Kyle Ray 10/28 10:17 AM >>>ANYONE SEE A PROBLEM WITH INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE BULKHEADS FROM 9" TO12" SINCE I'M SO TALL. THE UPPER PORTION OF MY TORSO GETS BLASTED BY THEWINDAND IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE MORE COMFORT AND LESSDRAG, I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO MAKE SMALL SWING DOWN DOORS TO THE LONGERONAND INTERGATE THIS IN TO THEINCREASED HEIGHT OF THE FUSELAGE, THIS I''M TOLD WOULD INTERFERE WITHRUDDER AND TAIL FIN SO I WOULD INCREASE HEIGHT ONE BAY..--________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
William Conway wrote:> > I'm 6'2" with a long back. With the combing I've installed around the frontof the cockpit and pad I picked up several more inches in height and feel thecockpit is cosy. Like others have advised you, I'd be very concerned about theimpact on the horizontal and vertical stablilizer.Another option is to lower the seat a little, which sits you down a bitlower in the cockpit. This is probably the mod with the fewestramifications, since the airframe itself is unchanged. It also helpsposition the shoulder harness higher up on your back to conform to theapproved practices (not less that 40 degree angle downward..). -Carmen -- ----------------------Mr. Carmen A. NataliePresidentCA Natalie Associates, IncCANA WebSystems100 State Street Suite 1040Albany, New York 12207http://www.cana.comphone 518.436.4932fax 518.436.4933----------------------________________________________________________________________________________
William Conway wrote:> > I'm 6'2" with a long back. With the combing I've installed around the frontof the cockpit and pad I picked up several more inches in height and feel thecockpit is cosy. Like others have advised you, I'd be very concerned about theimpact on the horizontal and vertical stablilizer.Another option is to lower the seat a little, which sits you down a bitlower in the cockpit. This is probably the mod with the fewestramifications, since the airframe itself is unchanged. It also helpsposition the shoulder harness higher up on your back to conform to theapproved practices (not less that 40 degree angle downward..). -Carmen -- ----------------------Mr. Carmen A. NataliePresidentCA Natalie Associates, IncCANA WebSystems100 State Street Suite 1040Albany, New York 12207http://www.cana.comphone 518.436.4932fax 518.436.4933----------------------________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Hi Kyle, Couple of things to consider: For more general room for a tall guy, consider the long fuselage version ofthe plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit. On mine, I'm also widening thefuse 2", increasing the radius of the panel the proportionate amount, whichgives more windscreen area, raising the "turtledeck" to match the panel andadding 2" to the height of the fin & rudder. Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probably does not need a swingdown door. The front cockpit probably does: check the door plans available fromYESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS, INC. Historic Hampton Airfield, LafayetteRoad, Route-1, North Hampton, NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or 964-6749.These plans are by Gary S. Price and are very professional and are accompaniedby 8 color photographs. You can see this plane in some detail on Richard DeCosta's web page athttp://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtmlgo to Images and then to Gary Price. Hope this helps.Best Regards,WarrenHi Kyle, Couple of things to consider: For more general room for a tall guy, consider thelong fuselage version of the plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit.On mine, I'm also widening the fuse 2", increasing the radius of the panelthe proportionate amount, which gives more windscreen area, raising the"turtledeck" to match the panel and adding 2" to the height of the fin rudder. Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probablydoes not need a swing down door. The front cockpit probably does:check the door plans available from YESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS,INC. Historic Hampton Airfield, Lafayette Road, Route-1, North Hampton,NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or 964-6749. These plansare by Gary S. Price and are very professional and are accompanied by 8color photographs. You can see this plane in some detail on RichardDeCosta's web page athttp://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtmlgo to Images and then to Gary Price. Hope this helps.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Kyle, Couple of things to consider: For more general room for a tall guy, consider the long fuselage version ofthe plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit. On mine, I'm also widening thefuse 2", increasing the radius of the panel the proportionate amount, whichgives more windscreen area, raising the "turtledeck" to match the panel andadding 2" to the height of the fin & rudder. Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probably does not need a swingdown door. The front cockpit probably does: check the door plans available fromYESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS, INC. Historic Hampton Airfield, LafayetteRoad, Route-1, North Hampton, NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or 964-6749.These plans are by Gary S. Price and are very professional and are accompaniedby 8 color photographs. You can see this plane in some detail on Richard DeCosta's web page athttp://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtmlgo to Images and then to Gary Price. Hope this helps.Best Regards,WarrenHi Kyle, Couple of things to consider: For more general room for a tall guy, consider thelong fuselage version of the plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit.On mine, I'm also widening the fuse 2", increasing the radius of the panelthe proportionate amount, which gives more windscreen area, raising the"turtledeck" to match the panel and adding 2" to the height of the fin rudder. Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probablydoes not need a swing down door. The front cockpit probably does:check the door plans available from YESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS,INC. Historic Hampton Airfield, Lafayette Road, Route-1, North Hampton,NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or 964-6749. These plansare by Gary S. Price and are very professional and are accompanied by 8color photographs. You can see this plane in some detail on RichardDeCosta's web page athttp://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtmlgo to Images and then to Gary Price. Hope this helps.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
I have seen Gary's Piet in person and can speak to the professionalism ofdesign and construction of his swing down door. It is Beautifull!! I wouldconsider it a must have Item. Realy make enterance and egress easier. Justmy 2 cents.John Duprey > Hi Kyle,> Couple of things to consider:> For more general room for a tall guy, consider the long fuselageversion of> the plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit. On mine, I'm also wideningthe> fuse 2", increasing the radius of the panel the proportionate amount,which> gives more windscreen area, raising the "turtledeck" to match the paneland> adding 2" to the height of the fin & rudder.> Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probably does not need aswing> down door. The front cockpit probably does: check the door plansavailable from> YESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS, INC. Historic Hampton Airfield,Lafayette> Road, Route-1, North Hampton, NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or964-6749.> These plans are by Gary S. Price and are very professional and areaccompanied> by 8 color photographs.> You can see this plane in some detail on Richard DeCosta's web pageat> http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtml> go to Images and then to Gary Price.> Hope this helps.> Best Regards,> Warren> > ________________________________________________________________________________
I have seen Gary's Piet in person and can speak to the professionalism ofdesign and construction of his swing down door. It is Beautifull!! I wouldconsider it a must have Item. Realy make enterance and egress easier. Justmy 2 cents.John Duprey > Hi Kyle,> Couple of things to consider:> For more general room for a tall guy, consider the long fuselageversion of> the plans..gives more leg room in the cockpit. On mine, I'm also wideningthe> fuse 2", increasing the radius of the panel the proportionate amount,which> gives more windscreen area, raising the "turtledeck" to match the paneland> adding 2" to the height of the fin & rudder.> Personal opinion is that the rear cockpit probably does not need aswing> down door. The front cockpit probably does: check the door plansavailable from> YESTERDAY'S WINGS AEROPLANE WORKS, INC. Historic Hampton Airfield,Lafayette> Road, Route-1, North Hampton, NH 08362-9998, Phone (603) 436-7360 or964-6749.> These plans are by Gary S. Price and are very professional and areaccompanied> by 8 color photographs.> You can see this plane in some detail on Richard DeCosta's web pageat> http://207.140.1.221/w3builder/piet/index.shtml> go to Images and then to Gary Price.> Hope this helps.> Best Regards,> Warren> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fw: center section
Original Posted By: Peter P Frantz
John, I can only envy the fact that you have seen the "real deal"! I purchasedthe plans and spoke with Gary on the phone and am now a "true believer" in thisaddition to an already delightful design. I have several years experience as anarchitectural draftsman, and I would sincerely assure one and all that theseplans are very thoughtful in design and very professional in presentation.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
John, I can only envy the fact that you have seen the "real deal"! I purchasedthe plans and spoke with Gary on the phone and am now a "true believer" in thisaddition to an already delightful design. I have several years experience as anarchitectural draftsman, and I would sincerely assure one and all that theseplans are very thoughtful in design and very professional in presentation.Best Regards,Warren________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: center section
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Michael Brusilow wrote:> Dean wrote:> > sections shorter. Could I get some details? Was any engineering > analysis done?> > > My Piet ( flying since 1988 ) has a three foot center section> designed by Chad Willie. The wing length is standard. Chad sells prints> ( or did ) for the center section. > > The advantage of the extended center section is a larger fuel> tank, I have a 16 gal tank. > > If you are interested, I will try to dig up Chad's address &> phone number.He has moved since I last contacted him. > > Mike B ( Piet N687MB )> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, 30 Dec 1998, Michael Brusilow wrote:> Dean wrote:> > sections shorter. Could I get some details? Was any engineering > analysis done?> > > My Piet ( flying since 1988 ) has a three foot center section> designed by Chad Willie. The wing length is standard. Chad sells prints> ( or did ) for the center section. > > The advantage of the extended center section is a larger fuel> tank, I have a 16 gal tank. > > If you are interested, I will try to dig up Chad's address &> phone number.He has moved since I last contacted him. > > Mike B ( Piet N687MB )> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: center section
Original Posted By: Greg Cardinal
Dean wrote: <Didn't somebody say they made the center section longer and theoutersections shorter. Could I get some details? Was any engineeringanalysis done? My Piet ( flying since 1988 ) has a three foot center sectiondesigned by Chad Willie. The wing length is standard. Chad sells prints( or did ) for the center section. The advantage of the extended center section is a larger fueltank, I have a 16 gal tank. If you are interested, I will try to dig up Chad's address &phone number.He has moved since I last contacted him. Mike B ( Piet N687MB )________________________________________________________________________________
Dean wrote: <Didn't somebody say they made the center section longer and theoutersections shorter. Could I get some details? Was any engineeringanalysis done? My Piet ( flying since 1988 ) has a three foot center sectiondesigned by Chad Willie. The wing length is standard. Chad sells prints( or did ) for the center section. The advantage of the extended center section is a larger fueltank, I have a 16 gal tank. If you are interested, I will try to dig up Chad's address &phone number.He has moved since I last contacted him. Mike B ( Piet N687MB )________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: center section
Original Posted By: "TWINBOOM"
Hi Listers and Leon Stefan: If it took a year to do the center section, then you should have a ton ofhelpful do's and don'ts for us to use. What did you find to be the most difficultpart and why. Always looking for pointers! By the way, can anyone e-mail Leon Stefan directly or is it just me?Dennis Engelkenjohn________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Listers and Leon Stefan: If it took a year to do the center section, then you should have a ton ofhelpful do's and don'ts for us to use. What did you find to be the most difficultpart and why. Always looking for pointers! By the way, can anyone e-mail Leon Stefan directly or is it just me?Dennis Engelkenjohn________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: center section
Original Posted By: "Dennis Engelkenjohn"
One BIG and basic thing I would have done different...I would have gottenthe fwd spars (left center, and right) And the same with aft spars, andmade the connecting bracketing mounted to the plywood on the spar ends, andmade both assys complete and on the bench. This way you know that the jointwas good with zero clearance, and each spar was straight as a completepiece. then build the center section around the center spars, and the wingsaround the wing spars.I built each assy separate, and after much squaring and trammeling, put thewings on the center section, and they fit. But still had to sand thecrack/joint to maintain the zero clearance and get the wing to be straightwith the center section.the final result was good, but a sloppy way to get there.waltps got pics of all if anyone wants to see.----- Original Message -----
One BIG and basic thing I would have done different...I would have gottenthe fwd spars (left center, and right) And the same with aft spars, andmade the connecting bracketing mounted to the plywood on the spar ends, andmade both assys complete and on the bench. This way you know that the jointwas good with zero clearance, and each spar was straight as a completepiece. then build the center section around the center spars, and the wingsaround the wing spars.I built each assy separate, and after much squaring and trammeling, put thewings on the center section, and they fit. But still had to sand thecrack/joint to maintain the zero clearance and get the wing to be straightwith the center section.the final result was good, but a sloppy way to get there.waltps got pics of all if anyone wants to see.----- Original Message -----