Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question>I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpolfrom>the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00to>the Pietenpol Family.>>Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.>>If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for three>airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>>Gordon>>>mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>>> Does anyone know...>>>> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopmanand>> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer>> reproduction than the other?>>>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Plans question
Pietenpol-List: Plans question
Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
Does anyone know...Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman andDonald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearerreproduction than the other?________________________________________________________________________________
Does anyone know...Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman andDonald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearerreproduction than the other?________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
I have a copy of each. Both are drawn by Orin Hoopman. My most recentpurchase was from Orin, and is a black & white copy that is very easy to read. Personally, would very strongly suggest that you also purchase the 1932 &1933 Flying & Glider Manual reproduction from the EAA. Each has an excellentarticle by Mr Pietenpol about the Air Camper and the Sky Scout, which I found tobe very informative and helpful and corrects a couple of minor errors on theplans.Regards,Warrenmboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Does anyone know...>> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> reproduction than the other?>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I have a copy of each. Both are drawn by Orin Hoopman. My most recentpurchase was from Orin, and is a black & white copy that is very easy to read. Personally, would very strongly suggest that you also purchase the 1932 &1933 Flying & Glider Manual reproduction from the EAA. Each has an excellentarticle by Mr Pietenpol about the Air Camper and the Sky Scout, which I found tobe very informative and helpful and corrects a couple of minor errors on theplans.Regards,Warrenmboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Does anyone know...>> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> reproduction than the other?>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol fromthe 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00 tothe Pietenpol Family.Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for threeairplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.Gordonmboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Does anyone know...>> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> reproduction than the other?>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol fromthe 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00 tothe Pietenpol Family.Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for threeairplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.Gordonmboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Does anyone know...>> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> reproduction than the other?>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
I also have the Grega plans. They have a number of major differences fromtheOrin Hoopman plans. In my opinion, the biggest item about them, is that they aredesigned to use many of the Piper J-3 series of available parts, includingLyc/Cont. engine, prop, cowl, etc., for ease and speed of construction. Hasdifferent placement of fuselage braces, modified airfoil and placement of spars,different hardware and motor mount, J-3 landing gear and fuel tank and has entirefuselage from firewall to tailpost plywood covered. Must note that I developed many good and useful ideas for my Piet, that isunder construction, from these plans, and have nothing negative to say about them.WarrenGordon Brimhall wrote:> I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol from> the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00 to> the Pietenpol Family.>> Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.>> If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for three> airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>> Gordon>> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>> > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I also have the Grega plans. They have a number of major differences fromtheOrin Hoopman plans. In my opinion, the biggest item about them, is that they aredesigned to use many of the Piper J-3 series of available parts, includingLyc/Cont. engine, prop, cowl, etc., for ease and speed of construction. Hasdifferent placement of fuselage braces, modified airfoil and placement of spars,different hardware and motor mount, J-3 landing gear and fuel tank and has entirefuselage from firewall to tailpost plywood covered. Must note that I developed many good and useful ideas for my Piet, that isunder construction, from these plans, and have nothing negative to say about them.WarrenGordon Brimhall wrote:> I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol from> the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00 to> the Pietenpol Family.>> Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.>> If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for three> airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>> Gordon>> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>> > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman and> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
GordonGrega's plans are for a different airplane. It is very similar to aPietenpol, but few components would interchange. I suspect that when he drewhis plans he had access to a lot of Piper Cub parts. I have Grega's plansand a set of 1934 Pietenpol plans drawn by Orin. I concur with thesuggestion to buy the EAA reprints of the Flying and Gliding magazines.Interesting tips and pictures. I started building from Grega's plans beforeI knew the difference. Now I am taking what I think is the best of both.Richard DeCosta's Image site has a picture (JM-Assemb1)of what I have so farexcept that I have all the ribs. If you study the fuselage sides you cancompare the differences with Pietenpols. Either one should be fun to fly!John Mc-----Original Message-----
GordonGrega's plans are for a different airplane. It is very similar to aPietenpol, but few components would interchange. I suspect that when he drewhis plans he had access to a lot of Piper Cub parts. I have Grega's plansand a set of 1934 Pietenpol plans drawn by Orin. I concur with thesuggestion to buy the EAA reprints of the Flying and Gliding magazines.Interesting tips and pictures. I started building from Grega's plans beforeI knew the difference. Now I am taking what I think is the best of both.Richard DeCosta's Image site has a picture (JM-Assemb1)of what I have so farexcept that I have all the ribs. If you study the fuselage sides you cancompare the differences with Pietenpols. Either one should be fun to fly!John Mc-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By:> Gordon Brimhall
Thanks JohnThe information is interesting, I thought all of them drew plans of the sameplane. But it is good that they all are fun to fly.GordonJohn McNarry wrote:> Gordon>> Grega's plans are for a different airplane. It is very similar to a> Pietenpol, but few components would interchange. I suspect that when he drew> his plans he had access to a lot of Piper Cub parts. I have Grega's plans> and a set of 1934 Pietenpol plans drawn by Orin. I concur with the> suggestion to buy the EAA reprints of the Flying and Gliding magazines.> Interesting tips and pictures. I started building from Grega's plans before> I knew the difference. Now I am taking what I think is the best of both.> Richard DeCosta's Image site has a picture (JM-Assemb1)of what I have so far> except that I have all the ribs. If you study the fuselage sides you can> compare the differences with Pietenpols. Either one should be fun to fly!>> John Mc> -----Original Message-----
Thanks JohnThe information is interesting, I thought all of them drew plans of the sameplane. But it is good that they all are fun to fly.GordonJohn McNarry wrote:> Gordon>> Grega's plans are for a different airplane. It is very similar to a> Pietenpol, but few components would interchange. I suspect that when he drew> his plans he had access to a lot of Piper Cub parts. I have Grega's plans> and a set of 1934 Pietenpol plans drawn by Orin. I concur with the> suggestion to buy the EAA reprints of the Flying and Gliding magazines.> Interesting tips and pictures. I started building from Grega's plans before> I knew the difference. Now I am taking what I think is the best of both.> Richard DeCosta's Image site has a picture (JM-Assemb1)of what I have so far> except that I have all the ribs. If you study the fuselage sides you can> compare the differences with Pietenpols. Either one should be fun to fly!>> John Mc> -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Konan
Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Didyou type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for andare probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will bebuilding your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think thePietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would notbe)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into itthan you meant.philGordon Brimhall wrote:> I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> Pietenpol from> the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> 75.00 to> the Pietenpol Family.>> Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.>> If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> three> airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>> Gordon>> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>> > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> Hoopman and> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> clearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________--Check out Crusader Toys @http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Didyou type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for andare probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will bebuilding your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think thePietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would notbe)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into itthan you meant.philGordon Brimhall wrote:> I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> Pietenpol from> the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> 75.00 to> the Pietenpol Family.>> Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.>> If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> three> airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>> Gordon>> mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>> > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> Hoopman and> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> clearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________--Check out Crusader Toys @http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Phil Peck
>Thanks John>>The information is interesting, I thought all of them drew plans of the same>plane. But it is good that they all are fun to fly.>>Gordon>I am going to order the full set from Don Pietenpol. I want the 3 piece wing and the fuselage mods for the Corvair. I have alreadyreceived the builder's manual from Don. It is the articles forboth the Air Camper and the Sky Scout along with the engine conversion info for both the Ford and Corvair. What is probablymore useful are the notes in the back that are additions and changes to the original articles. What amazes me are how thinthe instructions are for building the plane. The builder's manualis 74 pages long. I think that the wing instructions for a Zenair601 are longer than that. I am not sure that the builders manual isworth the $27 that Don gets but I am glad that I bought it.Dave - looking for a good source of Doug Fir in western NY________________________________________________________________________________
>Thanks John>>The information is interesting, I thought all of them drew plans of the same>plane. But it is good that they all are fun to fly.>>Gordon>I am going to order the full set from Don Pietenpol. I want the 3 piece wing and the fuselage mods for the Corvair. I have alreadyreceived the builder's manual from Don. It is the articles forboth the Air Camper and the Sky Scout along with the engine conversion info for both the Ford and Corvair. What is probablymore useful are the notes in the back that are additions and changes to the original articles. What amazes me are how thinthe instructions are for building the plane. The builder's manualis 74 pages long. I think that the wing instructions for a Zenair601 are longer than that. I am not sure that the builders manual isworth the $27 that Don gets but I am glad that I bought it.Dave - looking for a good source of Doug Fir in western NY________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question>Gordon/Guys>>After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order>the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and>drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the>aid of an electron scanning microscope.>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.>The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however>it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can>adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.>Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,>etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the>various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you>find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.>GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the>reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.>John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's>by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.>Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has>sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard>Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans>got alot of copies sold too.>I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol>and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a>guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one>of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans>that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He>wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of>plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald>Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.>He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building>and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to>fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question>Gordon/Guys>>After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order>the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and>drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the>aid of an electron scanning microscope.>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.>The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however>it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can>adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.>Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,>etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the>various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you>find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.>GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the>reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.>John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's>by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.>Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has>sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard>Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans>got alot of copies sold too.>I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol>and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a>guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one>of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans>that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He>wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of>plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald>Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.>He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building>and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to>fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question>Gordon/Guys>>After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order>the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and>drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the>aid of an electron scanning microscope.>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.>The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however>it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can>adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.>Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,>etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the>various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you>find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.>GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the>reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.>John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's>by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.>Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has>sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard>Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans>got alot of copies sold too.>I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol>and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a>guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one>of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans>that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He>wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of>plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald>Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.>He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building>and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to>fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question>Gordon/Guys>>After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order>the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and>drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the>aid of an electron scanning microscope.>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.>The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however>it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can>adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.>Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,>etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the>various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you>find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.>GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the>reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.>John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's>by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.>Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has>sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard>Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans>got alot of copies sold too.>I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol>and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a>guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one>of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans>that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He>wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of>plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald>Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.>He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building>and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to>fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Actually I think you are reading way too much into my note I typed with myold 486 computer of which I only have one now as I just shipped out my otherold 486 computer to a person in trade for a set of 54.00 plans and I paid56.00 for shipping. And also I plan to buy all of the little books the EAAsells and as someone said you could built a Piet with the 4.95 book alone. Ithink that was said on this list if not mistaken. Actually I think you arejust trying to make a mound out of a MoleHill. And I would love to be ableto buy a 1500 computer but being retired due to Base Closure and living on1/3 of what I was used to sometimes I find 75.00 expensive. I already havethree sets of plans for three other airplanes and have not decided on whichone to build yet.GordonPhil Peck wrote:> Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Did> you type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for and> are probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will be> building your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think the> Pietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would not> be)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into it> than you meant.> phil>> Gordon Brimhall wrote:>> > I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> > Pietenpol from> > the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> > 75.00 to> > the Pietenpol Family.> >> > Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> >> > If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> > three> > airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> > Gordon> >> > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> >> > > Does anyone know...> > >> > > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> > Hoopman and> > > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> > clearer> > > reproduction than the other?> > >> > > _______________________________________________________>> --> Check out Crusader Toys @> http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Actually I think you are reading way too much into my note I typed with myold 486 computer of which I only have one now as I just shipped out my otherold 486 computer to a person in trade for a set of 54.00 plans and I paid56.00 for shipping. And also I plan to buy all of the little books the EAAsells and as someone said you could built a Piet with the 4.95 book alone. Ithink that was said on this list if not mistaken. Actually I think you arejust trying to make a mound out of a MoleHill. And I would love to be ableto buy a 1500 computer but being retired due to Base Closure and living on1/3 of what I was used to sometimes I find 75.00 expensive. I already havethree sets of plans for three other airplanes and have not decided on whichone to build yet.GordonPhil Peck wrote:> Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Did> you type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for and> are probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will be> building your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think the> Pietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would not> be)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into it> than you meant.> phil>> Gordon Brimhall wrote:>> > I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> > Pietenpol from> > the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> > 75.00 to> > the Pietenpol Family.> >> > Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> >> > If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> > three> > airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> > Gordon> >> > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> >> > > Does anyone know...> > >> > > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> > Hoopman and> > > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> > clearer> > > reproduction than the other?> > >> > > _______________________________________________________>> --> Check out Crusader Toys @> http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Ed Nolan
Oh and I forgot to say that I pay only 14.95 per month for unlimited access toSurfree for my Internet service although I was a Charter Member of Compuservemany years back as I am a retired Computer Spec. And also I sent a nice letterto Don Pietenpol commending him on keeping the Pietenpol alive and would bebuying a set of plans from him before building. I also said that I would beputting a Model "A" engine in mine to be true to scale.Now can you read anything else into my note?GordonPS. YOU WERE JUST MAKING FUNNIES RIGHT?Gordon Brimhall wrote:> Actually I think you are reading way too much into my note I typed with my> old 486 computer of which I only have one now as I just shipped out my other> old 486 computer to a person in trade for a set of 54.00 plans and I paid> 56.00 for shipping. And also I plan to buy all of the little books the EAA> sells and as someone said you could built a Piet with the 4.95 book alone. I> think that was said on this list if not mistaken. Actually I think you are> just trying to make a mound out of a MoleHill. And I would love to be able> to buy a 1500 computer but being retired due to Base Closure and living on> 1/3 of what I was used to sometimes I find 75.00 expensive. I already have> three sets of plans for three other airplanes and have not decided on which> one to build yet.>> Gordon>> Phil Peck wrote:>> > Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Did> > you type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for and> > are probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will be> > building your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think the> > Pietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would not> > be)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into it> > than you meant.> > phil> >> > Gordon Brimhall wrote:> >> > > I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> > > Pietenpol from> > > the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> > > 75.00 to> > > the Pietenpol Family.> > >> > > Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> > >> > > If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> > > three> > > airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> > >> > > Gordon> > >> > > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > >> > > > Does anyone know...> > > >> > > > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> > > Hoopman and> > > > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> > > clearer> > > > reproduction than the other?> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________________> >> > --> > Check out Crusader Toys @> > http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Oh and I forgot to say that I pay only 14.95 per month for unlimited access toSurfree for my Internet service although I was a Charter Member of Compuservemany years back as I am a retired Computer Spec. And also I sent a nice letterto Don Pietenpol commending him on keeping the Pietenpol alive and would bebuying a set of plans from him before building. I also said that I would beputting a Model "A" engine in mine to be true to scale.Now can you read anything else into my note?GordonPS. YOU WERE JUST MAKING FUNNIES RIGHT?Gordon Brimhall wrote:> Actually I think you are reading way too much into my note I typed with my> old 486 computer of which I only have one now as I just shipped out my other> old 486 computer to a person in trade for a set of 54.00 plans and I paid> 56.00 for shipping. And also I plan to buy all of the little books the EAA> sells and as someone said you could built a Piet with the 4.95 book alone. I> think that was said on this list if not mistaken. Actually I think you are> just trying to make a mound out of a MoleHill. And I would love to be able> to buy a 1500 computer but being retired due to Base Closure and living on> 1/3 of what I was used to sometimes I find 75.00 expensive. I already have> three sets of plans for three other airplanes and have not decided on which> one to build yet.>> Gordon>> Phil Peck wrote:>> > Gordon, Could you clarify something for me about your note below? Did> > you type that letter with a computer that you paid over $1500. for and> > are probably paying $20.00 a month internet access.And you will be> > building your $10,000. airplane with a $4.95 book because you think the> > Pietenpol family (who if had not been ,this discussion group would not> > be)is getting rich selling plans for $75.00 Or did I read more into it> > than you meant.> > phil> >> > Gordon Brimhall wrote:> >> > > I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the> > > Pietenpol from> > > the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend> > > 75.00 to> > > the Pietenpol Family.> > >> > > Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> > >> > > If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for> > > three> > > airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> > >> > > Gordon> > >> > > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > >> > > > Does anyone know...> > > >> > > > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin> > > Hoopman and> > > > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a> > > clearer> > > > reproduction than the other?> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________________> >> > --> > Check out Crusader Toys @> > http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Out of curiosity, Gordon, what other plan sets do you have?Ed:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>I already own plans for three>airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>>Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Out of curiosity, Gordon, what other plan sets do you have?Ed:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>I already own plans for three>airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.>>Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Thanks, WarrenMark BoyntonPhoenix, AZP.S. Still looking for builders/owners in the Phoenix area.> I have a copy of each. Both are drawn by Orin Hoopman. My mostrecent> purchase was from Orin, and is a black & white copy that is very easy toread.> Personally, would very strongly suggest that you also purchase the1932 &> 1933 Flying & Glider Manual reproduction from the EAA. Each has anexcellent> article by Mr Pietenpol about the Air Camper and the Sky Scout, which Ifound to> be very informative and helpful and corrects a couple of minor errors onthe> plans.> Regards,> Warren> > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopmanand> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one aclearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks, WarrenMark BoyntonPhoenix, AZP.S. Still looking for builders/owners in the Phoenix area.> I have a copy of each. Both are drawn by Orin Hoopman. My mostrecent> purchase was from Orin, and is a black & white copy that is very easy toread.> Personally, would very strongly suggest that you also purchase the1932 &> 1933 Flying & Glider Manual reproduction from the EAA. Each has anexcellent> article by Mr Pietenpol about the Air Camper and the Sky Scout, which Ifound to> be very informative and helpful and corrects a couple of minor errors onthe> plans.> Regards,> Warren> > mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > > Does anyone know...> >> > Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopmanand> > Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one aclearer> > reproduction than the other?> >> > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Gordon/GuysAfter you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to orderthe full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions anddrawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without theaid of an electron scanning microscope. The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take youthru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves alargeportion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes thereis no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with aPiet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions duringthebuilding sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and thenpost your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc. The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piethoweverit incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You canadjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannoton a GN-1.Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all thevarious engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if youfind the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus thereason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60'sby placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega hassold thousands of plans this way because after a while BernardPietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plansgot alot of copies sold too. I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpoland I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in oneof his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plansthat had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. Hewanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set ofplans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by DonaldPietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Gordon/GuysAfter you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to orderthe full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions anddrawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without theaid of an electron scanning microscope. The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take youthru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves alargeportion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes thereis no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with aPiet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions duringthebuilding sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and thenpost your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc. The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piethoweverit incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You canadjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannoton a GN-1.Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all thevarious engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if youfind the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus thereason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60'sby placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega hassold thousands of plans this way because after a while BernardPietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plansgot alot of copies sold too. I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpoland I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in oneof his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plansthat had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. Hewanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set ofplans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by DonaldPietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
=A0=2E=A0Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C.[Steve Eldredge]=A0Right!=A0 Just thinking about skipping out of work this morning to do= justthat.=A0 During the Thanksgiving break I had great fun in the 60 degr=eeweather flying patterns till my rear got sore.=A0 Then I did some mor=e.=A0 Aboutsunset the wind picked up.=A0 It had been dead calm all day, but on d=ownwindas the sun went down the wind kicked up to about 15kts right down therunway.=A0 That is when the fun started.=A0 I had been practicing spo=t landingfor some future, yet unknown spot landing contest, and with the added= wind,I decided to do short field full stop spot landings.=A0 I touched dow=n on thenumbers and hit the brakes and was dead stopped in less than 150'.==A0 With5800' of runway left I did a short field take-off and was off beforethewindsock.=A0 Feeling smug and happy I climbed right up to 200' before= decidingthat since I had the whole airfield to myself, I could try that again=.=A0=A0Well, I didn't bother turning or doing a pattern, I just chopped thepowerand forward slipped back to the runway.=A0 It was a steep decent anda wierdangle with all the wind, but I plopped down again still with thousand=s offeet of pavement left.=A0 I could have done it all agian, but it wasgettinglate, and I wanted to end happy.=A0 Which I did."Oh what fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit pla--ine!"==A0=A0Still the season!=A0Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________
=A0=2E=A0Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C.[Steve Eldredge]=A0Right!=A0 Just thinking about skipping out of work this morning to do= justthat.=A0 During the Thanksgiving break I had great fun in the 60 degr=eeweather flying patterns till my rear got sore.=A0 Then I did some mor=e.=A0 Aboutsunset the wind picked up.=A0 It had been dead calm all day, but on d=ownwindas the sun went down the wind kicked up to about 15kts right down therunway.=A0 That is when the fun started.=A0 I had been practicing spo=t landingfor some future, yet unknown spot landing contest, and with the added= wind,I decided to do short field full stop spot landings.=A0 I touched dow=n on thenumbers and hit the brakes and was dead stopped in less than 150'.==A0 With5800' of runway left I did a short field take-off and was off beforethewindsock.=A0 Feeling smug and happy I climbed right up to 200' before= decidingthat since I had the whole airfield to myself, I could try that again=.=A0=A0Well, I didn't bother turning or doing a pattern, I just chopped thepowerand forward slipped back to the runway.=A0 It was a steep decent anda wierdangle with all the wind, but I plopped down again still with thousand=s offeet of pavement left.=A0 I could have done it all agian, but it wasgettinglate, and I wanted to end happy.=A0 Which I did."Oh what fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit pla--ine!"==A0=A0Still the season!=A0Steve E.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Phil Peck
That seems like the normal precedure to lay down 2 sheets of plywood on astrong frame making sure it is nice and level. The plans for the Mohawkpoint that out and then go on the mark out the pieces and cut the pieces andblock them with these nice 1/2" x 2" x 1" pieces of oak you have sawed outwith a radius on one side.For information sake, what do you actually get from Don Pietenpol for the75.00 plans cost?I have heard that the plans and builders manual were a little skimpy, I haveone set of plans, 54.00 that comes with 22 sheets of drawings and a 40 pagesbuilders manual. and the Mohawk comes with a much more.It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enables thefamily to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance tohave a piece of history.GordonIan Holland wrote:> Whatever the plans that you use, I would strongly suggest that you lay> down a large flat surface somewhere (I used two 3/4 inch sheets of oak> plywood nailed to my basement floor) and loft the various compnents.> That way you can work out most of the difficulties before cutting wood> and can transfer exact angles via protractor to your saw. You will find> that the plans are pretty close in most areas, but there are a few> errors that show up in the lofting.The plans that I am using are from> Don Pietenpol (drafted by ren Hoopman) along with the 3 piece wing plans> and Corvair mods) So far, the only difficulties encountered have been> minor and have been resolved either by Don, or this group. Mr Pietenpol> was well advanced for so early a time in avaition history. I also> obtained the Glider and flying manual via the EAA and found it very> helpful.>> I bought a set of the Grega plans, but have not used them. If any one> wants a set for reference or to build from, they are for sale cheap ($15> US).________________________________________________________________________________
That seems like the normal precedure to lay down 2 sheets of plywood on astrong frame making sure it is nice and level. The plans for the Mohawkpoint that out and then go on the mark out the pieces and cut the pieces andblock them with these nice 1/2" x 2" x 1" pieces of oak you have sawed outwith a radius on one side.For information sake, what do you actually get from Don Pietenpol for the75.00 plans cost?I have heard that the plans and builders manual were a little skimpy, I haveone set of plans, 54.00 that comes with 22 sheets of drawings and a 40 pagesbuilders manual. and the Mohawk comes with a much more.It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enables thefamily to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance tohave a piece of history.GordonIan Holland wrote:> Whatever the plans that you use, I would strongly suggest that you lay> down a large flat surface somewhere (I used two 3/4 inch sheets of oak> plywood nailed to my basement floor) and loft the various compnents.> That way you can work out most of the difficulties before cutting wood> and can transfer exact angles via protractor to your saw. You will find> that the plans are pretty close in most areas, but there are a few> errors that show up in the lofting.The plans that I am using are from> Don Pietenpol (drafted by ren Hoopman) along with the 3 piece wing plans> and Corvair mods) So far, the only difficulties encountered have been> minor and have been resolved either by Don, or this group. Mr Pietenpol> was well advanced for so early a time in avaition history. I also> obtained the Glider and flying manual via the EAA and found it very> helpful.>> I bought a set of the Grega plans, but have not used them. If any one> wants a set for reference or to build from, they are for sale cheap ($15> US).________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Well I just spend 30 minutes writing a disertation on plans and such when my old486 computer locked up. Man wish I had that 1500 computer I am accused ofhaving.I have a few pages of the Mohawk Builders manual to read just to see how nicethey are presented but not to build from as I would buy the complete set of 250pages.I have the following coming from my computer trade.RagwingRW1 Ultra "Piet"RW2 BiPlane Spec.RW8 Piper Colt/vagabond/J-3 Stand Off ScaleGordonEd Nolan wrote:> Out of curiosity, Gordon, what other plan sets do you have?>> Ed> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> :::::::::::::>> >I already own plans for three> >airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> >Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Well I just spend 30 minutes writing a disertation on plans and such when my old486 computer locked up. Man wish I had that 1500 computer I am accused ofhaving.I have a few pages of the Mohawk Builders manual to read just to see how nicethey are presented but not to build from as I would buy the complete set of 250pages.I have the following coming from my computer trade.RagwingRW1 Ultra "Piet"RW2 BiPlane Spec.RW8 Piper Colt/vagabond/J-3 Stand Off ScaleGordonEd Nolan wrote:> Out of curiosity, Gordon, what other plan sets do you have?>> Ed> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> :::::::::::::>> >I already own plans for three> >airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> >Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Whatever the plans that you use, I would strongly suggest that you laydown a large flat surface somewhere (I used two 3/4 inch sheets of oakplywood nailed to my basement floor) and loft the various compnents.That way you can work out most of the difficulties before cutting woodand can transfer exact angles via protractor to your saw. You will findthat the plans are pretty close in most areas, but there are a fewerrors that show up in the lofting.The plans that I am using are fromDon Pietenpol (drafted by ren Hoopman) along with the 3 piece wing plansand Corvair mods) So far, the only difficulties encountered have beenminor and have been resolved either by Don, or this group. Mr Pietenpolwas well advanced for so early a time in avaition history. I alsoobtained the Glider and flying manual via the EAA and found it veryhelpful.I bought a set of the Grega plans, but have not used them. If any onewants a set for reference or to build from, they are for sale cheap ($15US).________________________________________________________________________________
Whatever the plans that you use, I would strongly suggest that you laydown a large flat surface somewhere (I used two 3/4 inch sheets of oakplywood nailed to my basement floor) and loft the various compnents.That way you can work out most of the difficulties before cutting woodand can transfer exact angles via protractor to your saw. You will findthat the plans are pretty close in most areas, but there are a fewerrors that show up in the lofting.The plans that I am using are fromDon Pietenpol (drafted by ren Hoopman) along with the 3 piece wing plansand Corvair mods) So far, the only difficulties encountered have beenminor and have been resolved either by Don, or this group. Mr Pietenpolwas well advanced for so early a time in avaition history. I alsoobtained the Glider and flying manual via the EAA and found it veryhelpful.I bought a set of the Grega plans, but have not used them. If any onewants a set for reference or to build from, they are for sale cheap ($15US).________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Here's is a tip that worked well for me and the Christavia plans. I foundthe 24"x40" sheets a little cumbersome around the shop. I found that a lotof the time I only checking the plans for reference purposes rather thangetting dimension details. ie, was that 0.063" or 0.071" plate? Also, Iwas worried about getting junk on the plans like glue, paint, grease, etc.At the time, I had access to a 36" wide by unlimited length, monochromescanner so I scanned in the entire plan set and re-printed them at 50%. Italso gave me a set of plans to mark up as I made some changes. I'm notsure what it would cost to scan and reprint, but it worked well for me.KenOn Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Michael D Cuy wrote:> > I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a > guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to > come.> > He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Here's is a tip that worked well for me and the Christavia plans. I foundthe 24"x40" sheets a little cumbersome around the shop. I found that a lotof the time I only checking the plans for reference purposes rather thangetting dimension details. ie, was that 0.063" or 0.071" plate? Also, Iwas worried about getting junk on the plans like glue, paint, grease, etc.At the time, I had access to a 36" wide by unlimited length, monochromescanner so I scanned in the entire plan set and re-printed them at 50%. Italso gave me a set of plans to mark up as I made some changes. I'm notsure what it would cost to scan and reprint, but it worked well for me.KenOn Wed, 2 Dec 1998, Michael D Cuy wrote:> > I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a > guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to > come.> > He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > Mike C. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
MikeThanks for your information.I spent too many years fighting computer software piracy while with the govtand I don't copy plans. Interesting how many people preach the planscopyright stuff and you will find thousands of dollars worth of illeaglesoftware on their computer.GordonPS. But I am still cheap and will look for a good deal.Michael D Cuy wrote:> Gordon/Guys>> After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order> the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> aid of an electron scanning microscope.> The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the> building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's> by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> got alot of copies sold too.> I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.> He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>> Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
MikeThanks for your information.I spent too many years fighting computer software piracy while with the govtand I don't copy plans. Interesting how many people preach the planscopyright stuff and you will find thousands of dollars worth of illeaglesoftware on their computer.GordonPS. But I am still cheap and will look for a good deal.Michael D Cuy wrote:> Gordon/Guys>> After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order> the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> aid of an electron scanning microscope.> The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the> building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's> by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> got alot of copies sold too.> I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.> He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>> Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Thanks Steve for that nice message.That is what it is all about and it does not matter who's open cockpitdesign you are having all that fun in.Gordonsteve(at)byu.edu wrote:>>> .> Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN> to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>> Mike C.> [Steve Eldredge]>> Right! Just thinking about skipping out of work this> morning to do just that. During the Thanksgiving break I> had great fun in the 60 degree weather flying patterns till> my rear got sore. Then I did some more. About sunset the> wind picked up. It had been dead calm all day, but on> downwind as the sun went down the wind kicked up to about> 15kts right down the runway. That is when the fun started.> I had been practicing spot landing for some future, yet> unknown spot landing contest, and with the added wind, I> decided to do short field full stop spot landings. I> touched down on the numbers and hit the brakes and was dead> stopped in less than 150'. With 5800' of runway left I did> a short field take-off and was off before the windsock.> Feeling smug and happy I climbed right up to 200' before> deciding that since I had the whole airfield to myself, I> could try that again. Well, I didn't bother turning or> doing a pattern, I just chopped the power and forward> slipped back to the runway. It was a steep decent and a> wierd angle with all the wind, but I plopped down again> still with thousands of feet of pavement left. I could have> done it all agian, but it was getting late, and I wanted to> end happy. Which I did.>> "Oh what fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit> pla--ine!">> Still the season!>> Steve E.>Thanks Steve for that nice message.That is what it is all about and it does not matter who's open cockpitdesign you are having all that fun in.Gordonsteve(at)byu.edu wrote:.Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C.[SteveEldredge]Right!Just thinking about skipping out of work this morning to do just that.During the Thanksgiving break I had great fun in the 60 degree weatherflying patterns till my rear got sore. Then I did some more.About sunset the wind picked up. It had been dead calm all day, buton downwind as the sun went down the wind kicked up to about 15kts rightdown the runway. That is when the fun started. I had been practicingspot landing for some future, yet unknown spot landing contest, and withthe added wind, I decided to do short field full stop spot landings.I touched down on the numbers and hit the brakes and was dead stopped inless than 150'. With 5800' of runway left I did a short field take-offand was off before the windsock. Feeling smug and happy I climbedright up to 200' before deciding that since I had the whole airfield tomyself, I could try that again. Well, I didn't bother turningor doing a pattern, I just chopped the power and forward slipped back tothe runway. It was a steep decent and a wierd angle with all thewind, but I plopped down again still with thousands of feet of pavementleft. I could have done it all agian, but it was getting late, andI wanted to end happy. Which I did."Ohwhat fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit pla--ine!"Still the season!SteveE.________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks Steve for that nice message.That is what it is all about and it does not matter who's open cockpitdesign you are having all that fun in.Gordonsteve(at)byu.edu wrote:>>> .> Anywho, enjoy building> and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN> to> fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???>> Mike C.> [Steve Eldredge]>> Right! Just thinking about skipping out of work this> morning to do just that. During the Thanksgiving break I> had great fun in the 60 degree weather flying patterns till> my rear got sore. Then I did some more. About sunset the> wind picked up. It had been dead calm all day, but on> downwind as the sun went down the wind kicked up to about> 15kts right down the runway. That is when the fun started.> I had been practicing spot landing for some future, yet> unknown spot landing contest, and with the added wind, I> decided to do short field full stop spot landings. I> touched down on the numbers and hit the brakes and was dead> stopped in less than 150'. With 5800' of runway left I did> a short field take-off and was off before the windsock.> Feeling smug and happy I climbed right up to 200' before> deciding that since I had the whole airfield to myself, I> could try that again. Well, I didn't bother turning or> doing a pattern, I just chopped the power and forward> slipped back to the runway. It was a steep decent and a> wierd angle with all the wind, but I plopped down again> still with thousands of feet of pavement left. I could have> done it all agian, but it was getting late, and I wanted to> end happy. Which I did.>> "Oh what fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit> pla--ine!">> Still the season!>> Steve E.>Thanks Steve for that nice message.That is what it is all about and it does not matter who's open cockpitdesign you are having all that fun in.Gordonsteve(at)byu.edu wrote:.Anywho, enjoy buildingand whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN tofly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???Mike C.[SteveEldredge]Right!Just thinking about skipping out of work this morning to do just that.During the Thanksgiving break I had great fun in the 60 degree weatherflying patterns till my rear got sore. Then I did some more.About sunset the wind picked up. It had been dead calm all day, buton downwind as the sun went down the wind kicked up to about 15kts rightdown the runway. That is when the fun started. I had been practicingspot landing for some future, yet unknown spot landing contest, and withthe added wind, I decided to do short field full stop spot landings.I touched down on the numbers and hit the brakes and was dead stopped inless than 150'. With 5800' of runway left I did a short field take-offand was off before the windsock. Feeling smug and happy I climbedright up to 200' before deciding that since I had the whole airfield tomyself, I could try that again. Well, I didn't bother turningor doing a pattern, I just chopped the power and forward slipped back tothe runway. It was a steep decent and a wierd angle with all thewind, but I plopped down again still with thousands of feet of pavementleft. I could have done it all agian, but it was getting late, andI wanted to end happy. Which I did."Ohwhat fun, it is to fly, in a 65 horse open cockpit pla--ine!"Still the season!SteveE.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
>Mike>>Thanks for your information.Gordon- Grant MacLaren has the Pietenpol plans web site listed as:info and prices. If you haven't had a ride in an Air Camper and everin the Clev. OH area, stop by and we'll get you a little front seat sticktime.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
>Mike>>Thanks for your information.Gordon- Grant MacLaren has the Pietenpol plans web site listed as:info and prices. If you haven't had a ride in an Air Camper and everin the Clev. OH area, stop by and we'll get you a little front seat sticktime.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Thanks for offer. I'm in California and do plan to be at the Piet Fly-In atCorona Airport in April of 1999.I have been at the below web site a few times and that is where I got DonPietenpol's Email address and sent him a nice post.GordonMichael D Cuy wrote:> >Mike> >> >Thanks for your information.>> Gordon- Grant MacLaren has the Pietenpol plans web site listed as:>>> info and prices. If you haven't had a ride in an Air Camper and ever> in the Clev. OH area, stop by and we'll get you a little front seat stick> time.>> Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Thanks for offer. I'm in California and do plan to be at the Piet Fly-In atCorona Airport in April of 1999.I have been at the below web site a few times and that is where I got DonPietenpol's Email address and sent him a nice post.GordonMichael D Cuy wrote:> >Mike> >> >Thanks for your information.>> Gordon- Grant MacLaren has the Pietenpol plans web site listed as:>>> info and prices. If you haven't had a ride in an Air Camper and ever> in the Clev. OH area, stop by and we'll get you a little front seat stick> time.>> Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Phil Peck
>Gordon/Guys>-- clip>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.-- clip some moreMike,Does this mean that I should order the original articles inaddition to the Builder's Manual that I got from Don? I thinkthat the Builder's Manual has the orginal articles in it butI may have misuderstood.Dave________________________________________________________________________________
>Gordon/Guys>-- clip>The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you>thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large>portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there>is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a>Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the>building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then>post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.-- clip some moreMike,Does this mean that I should order the original articles inaddition to the Builder's Manual that I got from Don? I thinkthat the Builder's Manual has the orginal articles in it butI may have misuderstood.Dave________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
>It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enablesthe>family to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance to>have a piece of history.>>GordonI *seriously* doubt that the Pietenpol family makes a living fromselling these plans at $75. I charge $75 *an hour* and drive a Metro.I would be very surprised if Don sells more than one or two plan setsa month. Not much of a living. I personally am grateful that he putsup with the *hassle* of selling plans in order to keep his father'sdream alive. I haven't bought mine yet because I'm still a long wayfrom building, but when I do I'll get the full set and count it cheap.PS, I'm using an old 486 computer, too. In the immortal words of BillClinton, "I feel your pain".
| | Glenn Scherer __| ~~~: Farmersville, TX USA ) scherer2(at)airmail.net / / _( ________________________________________________________________________________
>It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enablesthe>family to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance to>have a piece of history.>>GordonI *seriously* doubt that the Pietenpol family makes a living fromselling these plans at $75. I charge $75 *an hour* and drive a Metro.I would be very surprised if Don sells more than one or two plan setsa month. Not much of a living. I personally am grateful that he putsup with the *hassle* of selling plans in order to keep his father'sdream alive. I haven't bought mine yet because I'm still a long wayfrom building, but when I do I'll get the full set and count it cheap.PS, I'm using an old 486 computer, too. In the immortal words of BillClinton, "I feel your pain".
| | Glenn Scherer __| ~~~: Farmersville, TX USA ) scherer2(at)airmail.net / / _( ________________________________________________________________________________Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: John Duprey
Glenn Scherer wrote:>> >It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enables the> >family to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance to> >have a piece of history.> >> >Gordon>> I *seriously* doubt that the Pietenpol family makes a living from> selling these plans at $75. I charge $75 *an hour* and drive a Metro.> I would be very surprised if Don sells more than one or two plan sets> a month. Not much of a living. I personally am grateful that he puts> up with the *hassle* of selling plans in order to keep his father's> dream alive. I haven't bought mine yet because I'm still a long way> from building, but when I do I'll get the full set and count it cheap.>> PS, I'm using an old 486 computer, too. In the immortal words of Bill> Clinton, "I feel your pain".>Who was he saying that too? as he hasn't told the truth in years.>> _> | | Glenn Scherer> __| ~~~: Farmersville, TX USA>Well this old 486 was given to me by my friend who just bought a new 400mhzsystem. The one 486 I traded for plans I bought in 94 for 1200.00 and added thecd and sound system, but still not worth more than 200.00 the first computer Iowned was a Tandy Model one with 4K of ram and a tape drive. I've bought 6 sinsethen. I keep waiting for them to get bigger and faster so maybe next year or2000 I will finally jump for a new one, should be about 1450mhz by then withflat 29" screen and only 500.00Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Glenn Scherer wrote:>> >It's nice that this design "Pietenpol" has survived so long and enables the> >family to continue making a living from it and also gives us a chance to> >have a piece of history.> >> >Gordon>> I *seriously* doubt that the Pietenpol family makes a living from> selling these plans at $75. I charge $75 *an hour* and drive a Metro.> I would be very surprised if Don sells more than one or two plan sets> a month. Not much of a living. I personally am grateful that he puts> up with the *hassle* of selling plans in order to keep his father's> dream alive. I haven't bought mine yet because I'm still a long way> from building, but when I do I'll get the full set and count it cheap.>> PS, I'm using an old 486 computer, too. In the immortal words of Bill> Clinton, "I feel your pain".
>Who was he saying that too? as he hasn't told the truth in years.>> _> | | Glenn Scherer> __| ~~~: Farmersville, TX USA>Well this old 486 was given to me by my friend who just bought a new 400mhzsystem. The one 486 I traded for plans I bought in 94 for 1200.00 and added thecd and sound system, but still not worth more than 200.00 the first computer Iowned was a Tandy Model one with 4K of ram and a tape drive. I've bought 6 sinsethen. I keep waiting for them to get bigger and faster so maybe next year or2000 I will finally jump for a new one, should be about 1450mhz by then withflat 29" screen and only 500.00Gordon________________________________________________________________________________Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
>Mike,>>Does this mean that I should order the original articles in>addition to the Builder's Manual that I got from Don? I think>that the Builder's Manual has the orginal articles in it but>I may have misuderstood.>>DaveDave- Good question. I think some of the info overlaps betweenthe two sources in places but with the Piet the more info the better.Some applies to the Model A builders, some info applies to all, etc. And even though everyone has heard this a million times fromme, the most valuable help I had in building my plane were all thebooks written by Tony Bingelis thru EAA. I think it's $75 or so forthe entire set of 3 or four books but they would make an awesomeChristmas gift. (oh, sorry....I guess if I was politically correct I'dsay 'holiday gift'....but I'm not !) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
>Mike,>>Does this mean that I should order the original articles in>addition to the Builder's Manual that I got from Don? I think>that the Builder's Manual has the orginal articles in it but>I may have misuderstood.>>DaveDave- Good question. I think some of the info overlaps betweenthe two sources in places but with the Piet the more info the better.Some applies to the Model A builders, some info applies to all, etc. And even though everyone has heard this a million times fromme, the most valuable help I had in building my plane were all thebooks written by Tony Bingelis thru EAA. I think it's $75 or so forthe entire set of 3 or four books but they would make an awesomeChristmas gift. (oh, sorry....I guess if I was politically correct I'dsay 'holiday gift'....but I'm not !) Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: "David B. Schober"
Just bought Tony's two engine books. His others have been an immense help. While he wrote for Sport Aviation, he would also answer questions viamail. I wrote to him on several occasions and always received a friendlyand thorough answer. >the most valuable help I had in building my plane were all the>books written by Tony Bingelis thru EAA. I think it's $75 or so for>the entire set of 3 or four books but they would make an awesome>Christmas gift. (oh, sorry....I guess if I was politically correct I'd>say 'holiday gift'....but I'm not !) >>Mike C. >________________________________________________________________________________
Just bought Tony's two engine books. His others have been an immense help. While he wrote for Sport Aviation, he would also answer questions viamail. I wrote to him on several occasions and always received a friendlyand thorough answer. >the most valuable help I had in building my plane were all the>books written by Tony Bingelis thru EAA. I think it's $75 or so for>the entire set of 3 or four books but they would make an awesome>Christmas gift. (oh, sorry....I guess if I was politically correct I'd>say 'holiday gift'....but I'm not !) >>Mike C. >________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Eli or Robert or Teresa Bozeman
mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.________________________________________________________________________________
mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:> mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.Mr. Sky Scout Himself.Are you Drooling Big Time?About What?Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Ed0248(at)aol.com wrote:> mumble, mumble, drool, drool, envy, BIG time.Mr. Sky Scout Himself.Are you Drooling Big Time?About What?Gordon________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Dean Dayton
Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list. Hesays he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.What size are the real plans.ThanksGordonRW1 Ultra Piet________________________________________________________________________________
Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list. Hesays he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.What size are the real plans.ThanksGordonRW1 Ultra Piet________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter of changing reproduction technology.Does anyone else know better?Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800>From: Gordon Brimhall >Subject: Re: Plans question>To: Pietenpol Discussion >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion >>>Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list. He>says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.>>He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.>>What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.>>He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.>>What size are the real plans.>>Thanks>>Gordon>RW1 Ultra Piet>>________________________________________________________________________________
I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter of changing reproduction technology.Does anyone else know better?Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com>Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800>From: Gordon Brimhall >Subject: Re: Plans question>To: Pietenpol Discussion >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion >>>Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list. He>says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.>>He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.>>What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.>>He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.>>What size are the real plans.>>Thanks>>Gordon>RW1 Ultra Piet>>________________________________________________________________________________
> > Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Well I asked him if he had the real plans and if he could hold them tell Jan1st and he said he could not so I told him to go FISH.GordonPS I think he is selling copies of the real plans.Dean Dayton wrote:> I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St> Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else> bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.>> I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter> of changing reproduction technology.>> Does anyone else know better?>> Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com>> >Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800> >From: Gordon Brimhall > >Subject: Re: Plans question> >To: Pietenpol Discussion > >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion > >> >> >> >Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list.> He> >says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.> >> >He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.> >> >What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.> >> >He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.> >> >What size are the real plans.> >> >Thanks> >> >Gordon> >RW1 Ultra Piet> >> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Well I asked him if he had the real plans and if he could hold them tell Jan1st and he said he could not so I told him to go FISH.GordonPS I think he is selling copies of the real plans.Dean Dayton wrote:> I have a set of White Line plans (blue prints) that I bought from St> Croix, I compared them with a set of Blue Line plans that someone else> bought from Don Pietenpol. The appeared to be the same.>> I suspect that the Blue Line versus White Line issue is simply a matter> of changing reproduction technology.>> Does anyone else know better?>> Dean Dayton - deandayton(at)hotmail.com>> >Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 11:02:07 -0800> >From: Gordon Brimhall > >Subject: Re: Plans question> >To: Pietenpol Discussion > >Reply-to: Pietenpol Discussion > >> >> >> >Someone has listed two sets of plans for the Pietenpol on another list.> He> >says he bought them years ago form Barnard Pietenpol.> >> >He says one set is Blue Line and one set is White Line.> >> >What are the real plans made like, White Line or Blue.> >> >He also says that they have latest landing gear on the plans he has.> >> >What size are the real plans.> >> >Thanks> >> >Gordon> >RW1 Ultra Piet> >> >>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Plans question
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
> Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
> Subject: Re: Plans question>> >I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol> from> >the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00> to> >the Pietenpol Family.> >> >Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> >> >If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for three> >airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> >Gordon> >> >> >mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> >> >> Does anyone know...> >>> >> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman> and> >> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> >> reproduction than the other?> >>> >> _______________________________________________________> >> >________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Re: Plans question>> >I don't really know the answer. I heard that you can build the Pietenpol> from> >the 1933 book from EAA for 4.95. I will be buying that before I spend 75.00> to> >the Pietenpol Family.> >> >Grega sells plans for 25.00 but I don't know how original, they are.> >> >If you find good information, let me know. I already own plans for three> >airplanes. I have become a plans collector without even trying.> >> >Gordon> >> >> >mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> >> >> Does anyone know...> >>> >> Are there any differences between the plans sets offered by Orin Hoopman> and> >> Donald Pietenpol? If no substantial differences, is either one a clearer> >> reproduction than the other?> >>> >> _______________________________________________________> >> >________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie"
> Subject: Re: Plans question> > > >Gordon/Guys> >> >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order> >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the> >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's> >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> >got alot of copies sold too.> >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.> >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> >> >Mike C.> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Re: Plans question> > > >Gordon/Guys> >> >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to order> >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during the> >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the 60's> >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> >got alot of copies sold too.> >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to come.> >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> >> >Mike C.> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
> > Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
> > Subject: Re: Plans question> >> >> > >Gordon/Guys> > >> > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want toorder> > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions duringthe> > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the60's> > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > >got alot of copies sold too.> > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years tocome.> > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > >> > >Mike C.> > >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________
> > Subject: Re: Plans question> >> >> > >Gordon/Guys> > >> > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want toorder> > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions duringthe> > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the60's> > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > >got alot of copies sold too.> > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years tocome.> > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > >> > >Mike C.> > >> >> > > > > > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Kevin Southwick
> > > Subject: Re: Plans question> > >> > >> > > >Gordon/Guys> > > >> > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to> order> > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during> the> > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the> 60's> > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > > >got alot of copies sold too.> > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to> come.> > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > > >> > > >Mike C.> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________________> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> > > Subject: Re: Plans question> > >> > >> > > >Gordon/Guys> > > >> > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to> order> > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible without the> > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not take you> > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves a large> > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimes there> > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice with a> > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questions during> the> > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....and then> > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piet however> > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate all the> > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying if you> > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the> 60's> > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > > >got alot of copies sold too.> > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Piet plans> > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' set of> > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to> come.> > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoy building> > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > > >> > > >Mike C.> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________________> >>> _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Re: Plans question
Original Posted By: Kevin Southwick
> > > > Subject: Re: Plans question> > > >> > > >> > > > >Gordon/Guys> > > > >> > > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to> > order> > > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible withoutthe> > > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not takeyou> > > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves alarge> > > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimesthere> > > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice witha> > > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questionsduring> > the> > > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....andthen> > > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piethowever> > > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate allthe> > > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying ifyou> > > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the> > 60's> > > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > > > >got alot of copies sold too.> > > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Pietplans> > > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' setof> > > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to> > come.> > > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoybuilding> > > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > > > >> > > > >Mike C.> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________________> > >> >> > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subject: Re: Plans question> > > >> > > >> > > > >Gordon/Guys> > > > >> > > > >After you see the Flying/Glider articles and prints you'll want to> > order> > > > >the full size plans from the Pietenpol family. The dimensions and> > > > >drawings in the book are so small that many are illegible withoutthe> > > > >aid of an electron scanning microscope.> > > > >The 'builder's manual' is a very general guide which will not takeyou> > > > >thru every step required to build. The Pietenpol design leaves alarge> > > > >portion of the decision making your responsibility. Sometimesthere> > > > >is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do something. It's your choice witha> > > > >Piet. You'll run across a million of these nagging questionsduring> > the> > > > >building sequence and that's when you sit down and think. ....andthen> > > > >post your question here.....or call another Piet builder...etc.> > > > >The Grega design is a fun airplane to fly just like the Piethowever> > > > >it incorporates some limitations compared to the Piet. You can> > > > >adjust your center of gravity on a Piet. You cannot on a GN-1.> > > > >Well you can, you just have to move things like the engine, pilot,> > > > >etc. The Piet wing is adjustable fore and aft to accommodate allthe> > > > >various engines available to be used. Even after you are flying ifyou> > > > >find the CG is a bit tail heavy you can adjust the wing to fix it.> > > > >GN-1's empty weights are generally higher than Pietenpols thus the> > > > >reason you see so many GN-1's with more than 65 horse engines.> > > > >John Grega took advantage of a 'Pietenpol advertising lull' in the> > 60's> > > > >by placing ads everywhere calling his design an aircamper too.> > > > >Naturally people thought an aircamper was an aircamper. Grega has> > > > >sold thousands of plans this way because after a while Bernard> > > > >Pietenpol just didn't advertise as much. Price of the GN-1 plans> > > > >got alot of copies sold too.> > > > >I purchased every plan/combo available from Donald Pietenpol> > > > >and I think it still was under $200. Clean, new prints. I know a> > > > >guy here in Ohio that has probably $20,000 worth of radios in one> > > > >of his planes but he was SO cheap that he copied a set of Pietplans> > > > >that had been copied before and he couldn't even read them. He> > > > >wanted to 'borrow' my new set to make himself and I a 'spare' setof> > > > >plans. No way. I have a nice thank you letter signed by Donald> > > > >Pietenpol, dated, etc. in my records which I'll enjoy for years to> > come.> > > > >He's got a set of junky plans he can't read. Anywho, enjoybuilding> > > > >and whichever design you choose they are just a LOAD OF FUN to> > > > >fly !!!! Right STeev EEE ???> > > > >> > > > >Mike C.> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________________> > >> >> > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________