Original Posted By: walter evans
Subject: Covering Systems I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe some ofyou have some new experiences to share. I was wondering what covering systems everyone is using? I'mgetting ready to help a friend start to cover and he asked me where to get the covering. I of course said, "From a aircraftcovering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed with my vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I might becomeenlightened from the group. Greg Yotz________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
Subject: Covering Systems I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe someof you have some new experiences to share. I was wondering what covering systems everyone is using? I'mgetting ready to help a friend start to cover and he asked me where to get the covering. I of course said, "From aaircraft covering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed with my vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I mightbecome enlightened from the group. Greg Yotz________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Covering Systems I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe someof you have some new experiences to share. I was wondering what covering systems everyone is using? I'mgetting ready to help a friend start to cover and he asked me where to get the covering. I of course said, "From aaircraft covering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed with my vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I mightbecome enlightened from the group. Greg Yotz________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe some of youhave some new experiences to share.I was wondering what covering systems everyone is using? I'm gettingready to help a friend start to cover and he askedme where to get the covering. I of course said, "From a aircraftcovering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed withmy vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I might becomeenlightened from the group.Greg YotzI know we've discussed this herebefore but Ithought maybe some of you have some new experiences toshare.I was wondering what coveringsystems everyoneis using? I'm getting ready to help a friend start to cover and heaskedme where to get the covering.I of coursesaid, From a aircraft covering supplier. He didn'tseem to beimpressed withmy vast knowledge of aircraftcovering. SoI thought I might become enlightened from the group.Greg Yotz________________________________________________________________________________
I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe some of youhave some new experiences to share.I was wondering what covering systems everyone is using? I'm gettingready to help a friend start to cover and he askedme where to get the covering. I of course said, "From a aircraftcovering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed withmy vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I might becomeenlightened from the group.Greg YotzI know we've discussed this herebefore but Ithought maybe some of you have some new experiences toshare.I was wondering what coveringsystems everyoneis using? I'm getting ready to help a friend start to cover and heaskedme where to get the covering.I of coursesaid, From a aircraft covering supplier. He didn'tseem to beimpressed withmy vast knowledge of aircraftcovering. SoI thought I might become enlightened from the group.Greg Yotz________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Greg Yotz
I used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for my first one , it's great,easy, and I'lluse it on my Aircamper.walt -----Original Message-----
I used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for my first one , it's great,easy, and I'lluse it on my Aircamper.walt -----Original Message-----
Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Greg Yotz
Subject: Re: Covering Systems I used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for my first one , it's great,easy, andI'll use it on my Aircamper. walt
Subject: Re: Covering Systems I used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for my first one , it's great,easy, andI'll use it on my Aircamper. walt
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Randy Gaskins
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems>Earl,>Could you be a little more specific? ;>--- Earl Myers wrote:>> POLYFIBER !>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems>Earl,>Could you be a little more specific? ;>--- Earl Myers wrote:>> POLYFIBER !>>________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Greg Yotz wrote:> I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe some of you> have some new experiences to share. I was wondering what covering> systems everyone is using? I'm getting ready to help a friend start to> cover and he asked me where to get the covering. I of course said,> "From a aircraft covering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed> with my vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I might> become enlightened from the group. > > Greg Yotz> Check out my covering page: Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)Calgary, Alberta, CanadaChristavia MK 1 C-GREN________________________________________________________________________________
On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Greg Yotz wrote:> I know we've discussed this here before but I thought maybe some of you> have some new experiences to share. I was wondering what covering> systems everyone is using? I'm getting ready to help a friend start to> cover and he asked me where to get the covering. I of course said,> "From a aircraft covering supplier." He didn't seem to be impressed> with my vast knowledge of aircraft covering. So I thought I might> become enlightened from the group. > > Greg Yotz> Check out my covering page: Ken Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)Calgary, Alberta, CanadaChristavia MK 1 C-GREN________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: walter evans
POLYFIBER ! -----Original Message-----
POLYFIBER ! -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: David Swagler
Randolph dope....light, easy to repair, and if you usethe light fabric 1.7 oz or whatever it will save lots ofwt. due to the finer fabric weave takes less coats to fill, finish.________________________________________________________________________________
Randolph dope....light, easy to repair, and if you usethe light fabric 1.7 oz or whatever it will save lots ofwt. due to the finer fabric weave takes less coats to fill, finish.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: "Davis, Marc"
Earl,Could you be a little more specific? ; POLYFIBER !________________________________________________________________________________
Earl,Could you be a little more specific? ; POLYFIBER !________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By:> walter evans
I like Airtex. If you are big on finish, go to PPG and use Durethane.PPGhas a sheet listing products for Ceconite from primers to top coats.Airtex products are made by PPG (I think) and just relabeled.Earl Myers wrote:> POLYFIBER !>> -----Original Message-----
I like Airtex. If you are big on finish, go to PPG and use Durethane.PPGhas a sheet listing products for Ceconite from primers to top coats.Airtex products are made by PPG (I think) and just relabeled.Earl Myers wrote:> POLYFIBER !>> -----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: John Duprey
OK, three things are apparent:1. Nearly everyone has used a different system2. Everyone has been happy with the system they've used.3. Each system has it's good and bad points.I like Aircraft Finishing systems stuff because: - Low toxicity so I can spray it in the basement- Great support- Water borne top coats can be used on fabric or metal (no matchingproblems)- One less step than Stits. THe equivalent of the PolyTak and PolyBrushare one product, Cecobond- Small CompanyCons:- small company
- Not as widely used as Stits/Polyfiber- Original compant has a less than stellar reputationThe bottom line is to use what you feel comfortable with and be sure tofollow the direction exactly. I've heard of some people using latex andother experimental top coats on thier plane to save money. Let's see, thetop coats for my plane were around the $500-$800 CDN mark. The completecovering system is $3000. The entire plane is around the $20,000 mark. Whyrisk having to re-cover your plane (another $3000) to save only $500-$800.Worse case is the top coat reacting with the rest of the system andloosing integrity. This result could be disasterous. In a lot of cases,the use of other top-coats has required re-covering the plane prematuraly.In the end, it ends up costing more than using the manufacturersreccommended topcoats. If you use AFS, use thier topcoats (as yet unamed).Polyfiber should be covered with PolyTone or that other product they have(PolyThane?). etc. At the very least, if something goes wrong you canalways go back to the manufacturer. Otherwise, you're on your own. Wow, I really jumped on the soapbox there. The fore-runner to AFS was BlueRiver. They had a few problems that I think were caused by not having acompatible top-coat. Customers used whatever they wanted causing some realproblems with quality. The AFS product line is far more complete and hasnot had these problems. Just ask Dick Starks of the Kansas City DawnPatrol as they fully endorse the AFS products.KenKen Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)Calgary, Alberta, CanadaChristavia MK 1 C-GREN________________________________________________________________________________
OK, three things are apparent:1. Nearly everyone has used a different system2. Everyone has been happy with the system they've used.3. Each system has it's good and bad points.I like Aircraft Finishing systems stuff because: - Low toxicity so I can spray it in the basement- Great support- Water borne top coats can be used on fabric or metal (no matchingproblems)- One less step than Stits. THe equivalent of the PolyTak and PolyBrushare one product, Cecobond- Small CompanyCons:- small company
- Not as widely used as Stits/Polyfiber- Original compant has a less than stellar reputationThe bottom line is to use what you feel comfortable with and be sure tofollow the direction exactly. I've heard of some people using latex andother experimental top coats on thier plane to save money. Let's see, thetop coats for my plane were around the $500-$800 CDN mark. The completecovering system is $3000. The entire plane is around the $20,000 mark. Whyrisk having to re-cover your plane (another $3000) to save only $500-$800.Worse case is the top coat reacting with the rest of the system andloosing integrity. This result could be disasterous. In a lot of cases,the use of other top-coats has required re-covering the plane prematuraly.In the end, it ends up costing more than using the manufacturersreccommended topcoats. If you use AFS, use thier topcoats (as yet unamed).Polyfiber should be covered with PolyTone or that other product they have(PolyThane?). etc. At the very least, if something goes wrong you canalways go back to the manufacturer. Otherwise, you're on your own. Wow, I really jumped on the soapbox there. The fore-runner to AFS was BlueRiver. They had a few problems that I think were caused by not having acompatible top-coat. Customers used whatever they wanted causing some realproblems with quality. The AFS product line is far more complete and hasnot had these problems. Just ask Dick Starks of the Kansas City DawnPatrol as they fully endorse the AFS products.KenKen Beanlands B.Eng (Aerospace)Calgary, Alberta, CanadaChristavia MK 1 C-GREN________________________________________________________________________________>
Original Posted By: "Conrad, Bart D"
Entry door plans are available From Gary Price in North Hampton N.H. SorryI misplaced his phone #John Duprey> > > I'm interested in the entry door!! I'd like to see what> others have done here.> > Mike Bell> Columbia, SC> > > > > > > "Davis, Marc" on 09/01/99 08:09:32 PM> > Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion > > To: Pietenpol Discussion > cc:> Subject:> > > I have some questions I hope you guy can shed some light on.> > Does anyone know of a direct drive Subaru EA81 Peat? What kind> of> performance?> > Over and above the 1933 plans what are the other Peat addendum> available and> what are the sources? I've head of the following:> > Builders Manual> Building video> 1932 Flying and glider manual> Long fuselage> 3 piece wing> Steel fuselage> Corvair engine> Entry Door> Hinged wing section for easy entry> > Any others you guy know about?> Do you know sources for the above?> Which of these have worked well or not so well?> > Thank you,> Marc Davis> > > > > > > "the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"_______Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Entry door plans are available From Gary Price in North Hampton N.H. SorryI misplaced his phone #John Duprey> > > I'm interested in the entry door!! I'd like to see what> others have done here.> > Mike Bell> Columbia, SC> > > > > > > "Davis, Marc" on 09/01/99 08:09:32 PM> > Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion > > To: Pietenpol Discussion > cc:> Subject:> > > I have some questions I hope you guy can shed some light on.> > Does anyone know of a direct drive Subaru EA81 Peat? What kind> of> performance?> > Over and above the 1933 plans what are the other Peat addendum> available and> what are the sources? I've head of the following:> > Builders Manual> Building video> 1932 Flying and glider manual> Long fuselage> 3 piece wing> Steel fuselage> Corvair engine> Entry Door> Hinged wing section for easy entry> > Any others you guy know about?> Do you know sources for the above?> Which of these have worked well or not so well?> > Thank you,> Marc Davis> > > > > > > "the Ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"_______Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.comTalk online at http://voicechat.excite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By:> BARNSTMR(at)aol.com
Consider Airtech System,no silver build up,7 to 10 lbs (cub sizebird)lighter than Stits. UV protection is in the primer/filler and in the finish.Finish is second to none.Uses ceconite fabric(EXACTLY THE SAME ASSTITS)Doug,Hunt
Consider Airtech System,no silver build up,7 to 10 lbs (cub sizebird)lighter than Stits. UV protection is in the primer/filler and in the finish.Finish is second to none.Uses ceconite fabric(EXACTLY THE SAME ASSTITS)Doug,Hunt
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: David Swagler
David; I always use the 1.7oz fabric with the textbook Stits or now the Polyfiberprocess. It gives a nice low luster finish plus I used the flat rib chordwith the knots pulled inside the fabric. That makes for a really nice finalfinish to the rib stitching, no knots.Mike Cuy had a standard dope finish with a brightener added in his finalcoat to give it a VERY high gloss...........I just wanted to stay with anantique finish which mostly were low luster even then except for thehigh-priced ships with hand rubbed Nitrate/Butyrate (dope) finishes.....Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
David; I always use the 1.7oz fabric with the textbook Stits or now the Polyfiberprocess. It gives a nice low luster finish plus I used the flat rib chordwith the knots pulled inside the fabric. That makes for a really nice finalfinish to the rib stitching, no knots.Mike Cuy had a standard dope finish with a brightener added in his finalcoat to give it a VERY high gloss...........I just wanted to stay with anantique finish which mostly were low luster even then except for thehigh-priced ships with hand rubbed Nitrate/Butyrate (dope) finishes.....Earl Myers-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: mbell1(at)columbiaenergygroup.com
Earl M. mentioned the fairly glossy finish we obtained usingRandolph dope on NX48MC.....the trick here is on the lastcolor coat to add to your pigment some CLEAR dope.For those who want a more authentic dope look you simplyleave out that extra clear dope. Do not let this process scareyou off just because it doesn't have a 'trade name' assoctiatedwith it. It's really much easier than you might think...just read,read, and follow how to books and instructions.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Earl M. mentioned the fairly glossy finish we obtained usingRandolph dope on NX48MC.....the trick here is on the lastcolor coat to add to your pigment some CLEAR dope.For those who want a more authentic dope look you simplyleave out that extra clear dope. Do not let this process scareyou off just because it doesn't have a 'trade name' assoctiatedwith it. It's really much easier than you might think...just read,read, and follow how to books and instructions.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Dick Dery
>Ditto to what Michael said...about the Randolph process and about the 1.7 oz >fabric. Or at least use the Randolph process thru the silver. After the >silver, there are three good options I know of. >>1) My dad's best results have been with Butyrate dope...using as few or as >many coats as it takes to get the desired finish. This he has used both on >his Robin and on his F-17D staggerwing - picture attached. Thanks for the great photo, I converted it to .bmp copyed to the windowsfile and use it as a wallpaper for my computer. The plane of my dreams! congratualations to your Dad for a great job. Hope this photo is not copywrited :-)I also have the sound of a radial engine starting as my computers start upsound.(airplane crazy?)SaludosGary Gower________________________________________________________________________________
>Ditto to what Michael said...about the Randolph process and about the 1.7 oz >fabric. Or at least use the Randolph process thru the silver. After the >silver, there are three good options I know of. >>1) My dad's best results have been with Butyrate dope...using as few or as >many coats as it takes to get the desired finish. This he has used both on >his Robin and on his F-17D staggerwing - picture attached. Thanks for the great photo, I converted it to .bmp copyed to the windowsfile and use it as a wallpaper for my computer. The plane of my dreams! congratualations to your Dad for a great job. Hope this photo is not copywrited :-)I also have the sound of a radial engine starting as my computers start upsound.(airplane crazy?)SaludosGary Gower________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: "Craigo"
Has anyone used the HIPEC system of covering? How did it compare to thePolyfiber system?? In cost, finish and application time? I'm ready tocover and I'm trying to make a decision on a system. I want a goodfinish with the lowest cost and shortest time.(I want it all.)The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch is attractive.Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Has anyone used the HIPEC system of covering? How did it compare to thePolyfiber system?? In cost, finish and application time? I'm ready tocover and I'm trying to make a decision on a system. I want a goodfinish with the lowest cost and shortest time.(I want it all.)The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch is attractive.Greg________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
On Mon, 12 August 2002, "Greg Yotz" wrote:> The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch> is attractive.Greg -NOT ribstitching (lacing) is a ticket to disaster, nometter whose system you are using. Do not trust fabricadhesives - there is a lot of lift (suction) operatingon the top of that big wing, and it will pull mostadhesives loose over time. Rib lacing amounts to about14 laces per rib, and takes about 3 hr. per wing - doit for peace of mind if nothing else.CraigCraigLake Worth, FLBakeng Duce NX96CWPeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
On Mon, 12 August 2002, "Greg Yotz" wrote:> The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch> is attractive.Greg -NOT ribstitching (lacing) is a ticket to disaster, nometter whose system you are using. Do not trust fabricadhesives - there is a lot of lift (suction) operatingon the top of that big wing, and it will pull mostadhesives loose over time. Rib lacing amounts to about14 laces per rib, and takes about 3 hr. per wing - doit for peace of mind if nothing else.CraigCraigLake Worth, FLBakeng Duce NX96CWPeoplePC: It's for people. And it's just smart. http://www.peoplepc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering SystemsIn a message dated 8/12/2002 12:14:48 PM Central Standard Time, greg(at)gregyotz.com writes:> The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch is attractive.> Greg....Craig is absolutely right. DO NOT buy that "no- rib- stitch baloney" That's a sales pitch to sell their product. They make that statement without even knowing what plane you plan to cover !! Don't even think of going there. Learn to rib stitch. There's nothing tough about it. You will not be saving anything but your butt !! Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering SystemsIn a message dated 8/12/2002 12:14:48 PM Central Standard Time, greg(at)gregyotz.com writes:> The fact that they claim you don't have to rib stitch is attractive.> Greg....Craig is absolutely right. DO NOT buy that "no- rib- stitch baloney" That's a sales pitch to sell their product. They make that statement without even knowing what plane you plan to cover !! Don't even think of going there. Learn to rib stitch. There's nothing tough about it. You will not be saving anything but your butt !! Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: clif
Re: Pietenpol-List: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
I have a strong opinion about rib stitching....I lost a friend and his 16 yr old daughter this past June due to thefabric not being stitched to the wing. Think about it.... you've gotabout 1200lbs of pull trying to rip that fabric right off the top of thewing... over time it WILL come loose. Once that happens it's all over..... If you absolutley feel you needto avoid the rib stitching, then you need to get a BRS to save your asswhen the wing lets loose. If my friend Joe had rib stitched the wingslike we told him to do, he may be here today.DJ ----- Original Message -----
I have a strong opinion about rib stitching....I lost a friend and his 16 yr old daughter this past June due to thefabric not being stitched to the wing. Think about it.... you've gotabout 1200lbs of pull trying to rip that fabric right off the top of thewing... over time it WILL come loose. Once that happens it's all over..... If you absolutley feel you needto avoid the rib stitching, then you need to get a BRS to save your asswhen the wing lets loose. If my friend Joe had rib stitched the wingslike we told him to do, he may be here today.DJ ----- Original Message -----
> Re: Covering SystemsI used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
> Subject: Re: Covering SystemsI used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for> my first one , it's great,easy, and I'll use it on my> Aircamper.walt>>--David B.Schober, CPEInstructor, Aviation MaintenanceFairmont State CollegeNational Aerospace Education Center1050 East Benedum Industrial DriveBridgeport, WV 26330-9503(304) 842-8300________________________________________________________________________________
> Subject: Re: Covering SystemsI used Poly Fiber ( Stits) for> my first one , it's great,easy, and I'll use it on my> Aircamper.walt>>--David B.Schober, CPEInstructor, Aviation MaintenanceFairmont State CollegeNational Aerospace Education Center1050 East Benedum Industrial DriveBridgeport, WV 26330-9503(304) 842-8300________________________________________________________________________________
> Re: Covering Systems
Original Posted By: Earl Myers
> > Ditto to what Michael said...about the Randolph process and about the 1.7oz > fabric. Or at least use the Randolph process thru the silver. After the> silver, there are three good options I know of. > > 1) My dad's best results have been with Butyrate dope...using as few oras > many coats as it takes to get the desired finish. This he has used bothon > his Robin and on his F-17D staggerwing - picture attached. The Robin hasI > think 5 cross-coats sprayed and not rubbed out, so the finish is nice and> even but not shiny. The Staggerwing has about 24 sprayed cross-coats, > sanding between coats, and hand rubbed to final finish. (On a Piet...you> wouldn't want more than about 2 or 3 sprayed cross coats if you areweight > conscious.) Either way....patch repairs can be made and buffed out to be> almost unnoticable with Butyrate. One drawback to Butyrate is that youhave > to go to some other paint for all of the sheet metal. For this > reason...sometimes it is hard to get a nice color match between thefabric > and metal parts.> 2) On a Champ restoration, we used a combination of Butyrate (for the > primary color) and Dupont Imron polyurethane enamel (for all of the trim > colors). This paint will give a really beautiful finish. Also...you usethe > same paint on fabric and sheet metal. And though polyurethane generally > cures to a very hard layer, you can utilize plasticizer additives tominimize > this. Without it...it would likely crack over time due to the flexing > fabric. I used plasticizer in Imron to paint a vinyl dash pad on a '67Chevy > pick-up. It didn't crack in the 5 years I drove it...and that stuffbaked in > the TX sun for that time. Still looked like new when I sold the truck. The > biggest drawback to Imron is that it is nearly impossible to blend when > making repairs. You don't buff this stuff.> 3) I have seen other airplanes that used Randolph (thru silver) andfollowed > with Ditzler polyurethane. The finish can be just as gorgeous as anybecause > you can buff and hand rub this paint. You can use plasticizer withDitzler > too to add crack resistance. I am guessing that you can blend repairspretty > well with it too...but I am not sure. I have never used Dizler....but Iam > thinking about trying it on my Piet....whenever I finally get to thatstage.> > Terry B> > ________________________________________________________________________________
> > Ditto to what Michael said...about the Randolph process and about the 1.7oz > fabric. Or at least use the Randolph process thru the silver. After the> silver, there are three good options I know of. > > 1) My dad's best results have been with Butyrate dope...using as few oras > many coats as it takes to get the desired finish. This he has used bothon > his Robin and on his F-17D staggerwing - picture attached. The Robin hasI > think 5 cross-coats sprayed and not rubbed out, so the finish is nice and> even but not shiny. The Staggerwing has about 24 sprayed cross-coats, > sanding between coats, and hand rubbed to final finish. (On a Piet...you> wouldn't want more than about 2 or 3 sprayed cross coats if you areweight > conscious.) Either way....patch repairs can be made and buffed out to be> almost unnoticable with Butyrate. One drawback to Butyrate is that youhave > to go to some other paint for all of the sheet metal. For this > reason...sometimes it is hard to get a nice color match between thefabric > and metal parts.> 2) On a Champ restoration, we used a combination of Butyrate (for the > primary color) and Dupont Imron polyurethane enamel (for all of the trim > colors). This paint will give a really beautiful finish. Also...you usethe > same paint on fabric and sheet metal. And though polyurethane generally > cures to a very hard layer, you can utilize plasticizer additives tominimize > this. Without it...it would likely crack over time due to the flexing > fabric. I used plasticizer in Imron to paint a vinyl dash pad on a '67Chevy > pick-up. It didn't crack in the 5 years I drove it...and that stuffbaked in > the TX sun for that time. Still looked like new when I sold the truck. The > biggest drawback to Imron is that it is nearly impossible to blend when > making repairs. You don't buff this stuff.> 3) I have seen other airplanes that used Randolph (thru silver) andfollowed > with Ditzler polyurethane. The finish can be just as gorgeous as anybecause > you can buff and hand rub this paint. You can use plasticizer withDitzler > too to add crack resistance. I am guessing that you can blend repairspretty > well with it too...but I am not sure. I have never used Dizler....but Iam > thinking about trying it on my Piet....whenever I finally get to thatstage.> > Terry B> > ________________________________________________________________________________