Original Posted By: "ED GRENTZER"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresI too wondered about the material for the drag/antidrag wires, and ended up using 11 ga. fence wire from my local farm supply store. It was cheap, is heavier gauge than the 13 ga. hard wire called for in the plans. I had an EAA Technical Counselor check over the first wing panel I built and he said it should be fine - in fact he said, "Bernie would be proud." I did follow his recommendation and redid the wires, allowing about an inch of wire to protrude beyond the nicopress sleeves and then bent that end back over the sleeve. The Tech Counselor said this provided additional resistance to the wire possibly pulling back through the sleeve, unlikely in any case. Bacause the wire comes in rolls, there is a little wavyness to the wires once installed. A little bendin to get the biggest jogs out gives a pretty straight wire. I plan on using 1X19 for the tail and strut bracing.Matt Paxton________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I assume that you used a turnbuckle to give yourself fine adjustments right?I like the idea of using the solid wire.Steve E-----Original Message-----
I assume that you used a turnbuckle to give yourself fine adjustments right?I like the idea of using the solid wire.Steve E-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Re: Pietenpol-List: E mail address.
Original Posted By: del magsam
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E mail address.In a message dated 2/23/01 10:43:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:> Would someone please furnish Mr. Pietenpol's e mail address. I need to find > out the serial number assigned my plans so I can acquire a registration > number. I'm careless about those things.> Corky> > > Corky,You don't need a plans serial number to get a registration, just apply for it. You also don't the registration until you are ready to license and fly. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:05:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: E mail address.In a message dated 2/23/01 10:43:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:> Would someone please furnish Mr. Pietenpol's e mail address. I need to find > out the serial number assigned my plans so I can acquire a registration > number. I'm careless about those things.> Corky> > > Corky,You don't need a plans serial number to get a registration, just apply for it. You also don't the registration until you are ready to license and fly. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:05:32 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: del magsam
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresIn a message dated 2/23/01 7:12:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, Woodflier(at)aol.com writes:> I too wondered about the material for the drag/antidrag wires, and ended up > using 11 ga. fence wire from my local farm supply store. It was cheap, is > heavier gauge than the 13 ga. hard wire called for in the plans. I had an > EAA > Technical Counselor check over the first wing panel I built and he said it > should be fine - in fact he said, "Bernie would be proud." I did follow his > recommendation and redid the wires, allowing about an inch of wire to > protrude beyond the nicopress sleeves and then bent that end back over the > sleeve. The Tech Counselor said this provided additional resistance to the > wire possibly pulling back through the sleeve, unlikely in any case. > Bacause > the wire comes in rolls, there is a little wavyness to the wires once > installed. A little bendin to get the biggest jogs out gives a pretty > Matt,The hard wire issue is somewhat puzzling these days. Hard wire is made from 1095 high carbon drawn steel. It is also called music wire. Hard wire as was used in some vintage aircraft also used a hard wire oval shaped wound ferrell. The ferrell was manufactured also from 1095 steel but in the soft state then heat treated and drawn giving it its high strength properties. The ferrell was slipped onto the wire, then a loop and a leader was formed at the end with a small tool followed by slipping the ferrell over the leader. then bending the excess end of the leader back as you have described. Some info from old books I have say solder and some say don't solder; the point being to not affect the heat treated properties of the ferrell or wire. The #11 low carbon steel wire you have could stretch and elongate the loop in a short number of hours. I tried some similar when I first started and didn't like it . Probably the best substitute for the hard wire on a piet is 3/32 aircraft cable (swagged or Nicopress) for the drag and antidrag and 1/16 or 3/32 aircraft cable for the tail. BHP used 1/16 for the tail and 3/32 for the wing on the two aircraft in the museums at Oshkosh. I don't know of any hard wire ferrells being manufactured today. Maybe someone does. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 05:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresIn a message dated 2/23/01 7:12:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, Woodflier(at)aol.com writes:> I too wondered about the material for the drag/antidrag wires, and ended up > using 11 ga. fence wire from my local farm supply store. It was cheap, is > heavier gauge than the 13 ga. hard wire called for in the plans. I had an > EAA > Technical Counselor check over the first wing panel I built and he said it > should be fine - in fact he said, "Bernie would be proud." I did follow his > recommendation and redid the wires, allowing about an inch of wire to > protrude beyond the nicopress sleeves and then bent that end back over the > sleeve. The Tech Counselor said this provided additional resistance to the > wire possibly pulling back through the sleeve, unlikely in any case. > Bacause > the wire comes in rolls, there is a little wavyness to the wires once > installed. A little bendin to get the biggest jogs out gives a pretty > Matt,The hard wire issue is somewhat puzzling these days. Hard wire is made from 1095 high carbon drawn steel. It is also called music wire. Hard wire as was used in some vintage aircraft also used a hard wire oval shaped wound ferrell. The ferrell was manufactured also from 1095 steel but in the soft state then heat treated and drawn giving it its high strength properties. The ferrell was slipped onto the wire, then a loop and a leader was formed at the end with a small tool followed by slipping the ferrell over the leader. then bending the excess end of the leader back as you have described. Some info from old books I have say solder and some say don't solder; the point being to not affect the heat treated properties of the ferrell or wire. The #11 low carbon steel wire you have could stretch and elongate the loop in a short number of hours. I tried some similar when I first started and didn't like it . Probably the best substitute for the hard wire on a piet is 3/32 aircraft cable (swagged or Nicopress) for the drag and antidrag and 1/16 or 3/32 aircraft cable for the tail. BHP used 1/16 for the tail and 3/32 for the wing on the two aircraft in the museums at Oshkosh. I don't know of any hard wire ferrells being manufactured today. Maybe someone does. Doug Bryant Wichita Ks________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 05:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresIn a message dated 2/24/01 10:58:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, BOBKA(at)compuserve.com writes:> I am not a metals guy. Maybe you are and can shed more light on this or> refer me to a book I can understand on the subject.> > I have been told that you can't really heat treat the straight carbon> steels (10XX series). There is not much you can do with it. It comes hard> and it stays hard or it comes soft and it stays soft or it comes somehwere> in between and stays that way. I thought it is only when you add other> metals to the carbon and iron mix that you begin to have the ability to> soften and harden the metal through the various heat treated processes. Is> this true? Anybody?> > We need to nail down this aircraft wire thing once and for all.> > Chris,Carbon content of .3% or greater in steel will generally respond to heat treating processes. 1020 has .2 % so it would not heat treat generally. 1095 as used to make hard wire would respond to heat treating with .9%. With all this, I just had a concern for making a look alike product for a piet when it may not be adequate. There are some things on the piet, being a design from the past, which are truely gone or at least very hard to reproduce. I had to find a suitable substitute for some of these items. I made a list of them. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:50:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresIn a message dated 2/24/01 10:58:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, BOBKA(at)compuserve.com writes:> I am not a metals guy. Maybe you are and can shed more light on this or> refer me to a book I can understand on the subject.> > I have been told that you can't really heat treat the straight carbon> steels (10XX series). There is not much you can do with it. It comes hard> and it stays hard or it comes soft and it stays soft or it comes somehwere> in between and stays that way. I thought it is only when you add other> metals to the carbon and iron mix that you begin to have the ability to> soften and harden the metal through the various heat treated processes. Is> this true? Anybody?> > We need to nail down this aircraft wire thing once and for all.> > Chris,Carbon content of .3% or greater in steel will generally respond to heat treating processes. 1020 has .2 % so it would not heat treat generally. 1095 as used to make hard wire would respond to heat treating with .9%. With all this, I just had a concern for making a look alike product for a piet when it may not be adequate. There are some things on the piet, being a design from the past, which are truely gone or at least very hard to reproduce. I had to find a suitable substitute for some of these items. I made a list of them. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 20:50:03 -0500
Pietenpol-List: EAA Book List
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: "Owen Davies"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresDittoCorky________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wiresDittoCorky________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Drag/antidrag wires
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips