Original Posted By: Gary Gower
Just a comment on wood--There is no reason not to use western hemlock if youhave good stuff available. Bernie used it and felt it was OK. There arelots of species of wood that are as good as, or even better, than spruce.Spruce was selected partly just because it came in very big trees with lotsof clean grain--although nowadays the Forest Service has given most ofwhat's left to big paper mills in Alaska to chip up to make cheap paper.I often find hemlock in a form called "lath" in my lumberyard and it isabout 1/4' X 2" by long lengths--and often the grain doesn't run out of a 12foot piece.The main thing with whatever wood source you select is to test a few piecesto insure that the specific pieces don't have stress fractures or otherflaws etc. in them.Pietenpols forever! Mac in Oregon-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. Inaturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up thissite at home, http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Doesanyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lotsof species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be substitutedfor Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?Any thoughts?KentBuilding benches and buying tools________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:37:10 -0800
I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. Inaturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up thissite at home, http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Doesanyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lotsof species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be substitutedfor Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?Any thoughts?KentBuilding benches and buying tools________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 10:37:10 -0800
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: Kip & Beth Gardner
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/15/01 10:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, KHallsten(at)Governair.com writes:> I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,> and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. I> naturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up this> site at home, > > http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,> > under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Does> anyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lots> of species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be > substituted> for Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?> > Any thoughts?> > Kent> Building benches and buying tools> > > Kent,White wood, in this area, usually refers to spruce, pine , or fir. I grew up in Oregon and know the wood types well and actually use douglas fir or spruce 2x4's for almost all of the Piets I build even the longerons which I scarf. I can almost allways find a clear board or two each time I visit the lumber store. Hemlock is sometimes called hemfir which refers to hemlock or fir, it could also be classed as white wood. Fir and hemlock are yellowish as compared to pine for spruce. Hemlock tends to not have as much clear wood or tight grain as fir, but is very good if you can find it. I have also seen it at Home Depot. Home Depot also has some very good tongue and groove fir flooring which is 3/4 inch thick.Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:04:16 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/15/01 10:21:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, KHallsten(at)Governair.com writes:> I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,> and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. I> naturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up this> site at home, > > http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,> > under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Does> anyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lots> of species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be > substituted> for Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?> > Any thoughts?> > Kent> Building benches and buying tools> > > Kent,White wood, in this area, usually refers to spruce, pine , or fir. I grew up in Oregon and know the wood types well and actually use douglas fir or spruce 2x4's for almost all of the Piets I build even the longerons which I scarf. I can almost allways find a clear board or two each time I visit the lumber store. Hemlock is sometimes called hemfir which refers to hemlock or fir, it could also be classed as white wood. Fir and hemlock are yellowish as compared to pine for spruce. Hemlock tends to not have as much clear wood or tight grain as fir, but is very good if you can find it. I have also seen it at Home Depot. Home Depot also has some very good tongue and groove fir flooring which is 3/4 inch thick.Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 14:04:16 -0500
> Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: JEFFREY WILCOX
I'm building my airplane wings from Western Hemlock, and this wood isn't white !It's red, or better, light brown.Western Hemlock looks a lot like fir, but their are no thin white long grain lines between the red grain lines.Also W. hemlock does not chip like fir, and the grain of fir is really stright, where W.hemlock is sort of curvy..I shop at Home Depot a lot, and often I see white wood for sale. Sometimes it's marked, and usually the mark says spruce.Though it could be pine.If I were you, I would go into the specialty woods section where they sell all kinds of the better quality boards.Look at some hemlock, then decide what the white wood is.If it were me, I would stay away from a generic white wood to build an airplane.Hemlock is good, as is fir, and both are available.bob>From: Kent Hallsten >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question>Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:19:59 -0600>>>>I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,>and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. I>naturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up this>site at home,>>http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,>>under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Does>anyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lots>of species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be >substituted>for Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?>>Any thoughts?>>Kent>Building benches and buying tools>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: 16 Nov 2001 03:58:46 -0800
I'm building my airplane wings from Western Hemlock, and this wood isn't white !It's red, or better, light brown.Western Hemlock looks a lot like fir, but their are no thin white long grain lines between the red grain lines.Also W. hemlock does not chip like fir, and the grain of fir is really stright, where W.hemlock is sort of curvy..I shop at Home Depot a lot, and often I see white wood for sale. Sometimes it's marked, and usually the mark says spruce.Though it could be pine.If I were you, I would go into the specialty woods section where they sell all kinds of the better quality boards.Look at some hemlock, then decide what the white wood is.If it were me, I would stay away from a generic white wood to build an airplane.Hemlock is good, as is fir, and both are available.bob>From: Kent Hallsten >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: "'pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com'" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question>Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 12:19:59 -0600>>>>I was at Home Depot the other day, buying studs and plywood for my benches,>and noticed stacks of "white wood". That's what the label said. I>naturally did not ask anyone what it really is, but when I looked up this>site at home,>>http://www.americansoftwoods.com/guide.html ,>>under Western Hemlock they mention it is classified as a white wood. Does>anyone know if this Home Depot wood could be Western Hemlock? Or are lots>of species called "white wood"? I know Western Hemlock can be >substituted>for Spruce, and wonder if this stuff is OK?>>Any thoughts?>>Kent>Building benches and buying tools>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: 16 Nov 2001 03:58:46 -0800
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question>>Reading this mail, a good option could be to use>Spruce for the structural parts (spars, longerons,>etc) and WH for the less structural parts.>>Just a thought with safety in mind.>>Saludos>Gary Gower>>>--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:>> Shoun" >>>> Kent,>> I know this will sound weird, but Western>> Hemlock has a unique odor....it>> smells like urine...really. Especially if it is a>> bit green, which most of the>> Home Depot stuff is. Western Hemlock is a great>> substitute for Sitka Spruce.>> Only marginally denser and a bit stronger. Do be>> sure and use vertical grain>> with not less than 8 rings to the inch and little or>> no runout or twist in the>> grain in the length.>> Cheers,>> ~Warren>>>>>>>> Month!>> Thank you for your>>>[#####------------------------9.9%-----------------------------]>>>>>> Forum ->> Contributions of>> any other form>>>> latest messages.>> other List members.>>>> http://www.matronics.com/subscription>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare>> http://www.matronics.com/search>> http://www.matronics.com/archives>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists>>>> ... __________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question>>Reading this mail, a good option could be to use>Spruce for the structural parts (spars, longerons,>etc) and WH for the less structural parts.>>Just a thought with safety in mind.>>Saludos>Gary Gower>>>--- "Warren D. Shoun" wrote:>> Shoun" >>>> Kent,>> I know this will sound weird, but Western>> Hemlock has a unique odor....it>> smells like urine...really. Especially if it is a>> bit green, which most of the>> Home Depot stuff is. Western Hemlock is a great>> substitute for Sitka Spruce.>> Only marginally denser and a bit stronger. Do be>> sure and use vertical grain>> with not less than 8 rings to the inch and little or>> no runout or twist in the>> grain in the length.>> Cheers,>> ~Warren>>>>>>>> Month!>> Thank you for your>>>[#####------------------------9.9%-----------------------------]>>>>>> Forum ->> Contributions of>> any other form>>>> latest messages.>> other List members.>>>> http://www.matronics.com/subscription>> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare>> http://www.matronics.com/search>> http://www.matronics.com/archives>> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists>>>> ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Bob or Doug, If the white wood at my HD can be identified as Spruce or Hemlock,as long as the grain, slope, and everything else are acceptable, is thiswood ok to use? I think I'll spend some time there this weekend looking itover, and maybe I'll get over to the exotic/specialty wood store downtownand see what they have. Another question. When it comes to spars, is splicing acceptablein order to get the right length? Thanks guys!!KentI'm building my airplane wings from Western Hemlock, and this wood isn't white !It's red, or better, light brown.Western Hemlock looks a lot like fir, but their are no thin white long grainlines between the red grain lines.Also W. hemlock does not chip like fir, and the grain of fir is really stright, where W.hemlock is sort of curvy..I shop at Home Depot a lot, and often I see white wood for sale. Sometimes it's marked, and usually the mark says spruce.Though it could be pine.If I were you, I would go into the specialty woods section where they sell all kinds of the better quality boards.Look at some hemlock, then decide what the white wood is.If it were me, I would stay away from a generic white wood to build an airplane.Hemlock is good, as is fir, and both are available.bob________________________________________________________________________________
Bob or Doug, If the white wood at my HD can be identified as Spruce or Hemlock,as long as the grain, slope, and everything else are acceptable, is thiswood ok to use? I think I'll spend some time there this weekend looking itover, and maybe I'll get over to the exotic/specialty wood store downtownand see what they have. Another question. When it comes to spars, is splicing acceptablein order to get the right length? Thanks guys!!KentI'm building my airplane wings from Western Hemlock, and this wood isn't white !It's red, or better, light brown.Western Hemlock looks a lot like fir, but their are no thin white long grainlines between the red grain lines.Also W. hemlock does not chip like fir, and the grain of fir is really stright, where W.hemlock is sort of curvy..I shop at Home Depot a lot, and often I see white wood for sale. Sometimes it's marked, and usually the mark says spruce.Though it could be pine.If I were you, I would go into the specialty woods section where they sell all kinds of the better quality boards.Look at some hemlock, then decide what the white wood is.If it were me, I would stay away from a generic white wood to build an airplane.Hemlock is good, as is fir, and both are available.bob________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kent, if you don't already have it I would recommend getting a copy of theEAA's book "Aircraft Building Techniques - Wood". It has a lot ofinformation on how to select wood for aircraft use, as well as informationon good techniques for splicing and scarfing wood. It is about the thirdmost looked at book I have, right behind the Tont Bingelis series and AC43.13Jack-----Original Message-----
Kent, if you don't already have it I would recommend getting a copy of theEAA's book "Aircraft Building Techniques - Wood". It has a lot ofinformation on how to select wood for aircraft use, as well as informationon good techniques for splicing and scarfing wood. It is about the thirdmost looked at book I have, right behind the Tont Bingelis series and AC43.13Jack-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: RE:Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Kenneth Maynard"
I've downloaded the AC43.13-1b and trying to print off a chapter every dayat work. Got the EAA wood book on order from Chris Bobka , the check goesin the mail today! Waiting for my prints to get here. My garage is looking better, got 4 shop lights up, WOW what adifference with some light! I'm going to put more up! There aren't verymany outlets in my garage, (3) so figuring out where to put those powerstrips and not blow breakers is fun. A shop vacuum is on the list too.Picked up a brand new kerosene heater at a yard sale, $40.00, never beenused. That will be good this winter, and when summer comes along I have anold window A/C unit that might or might not still work. The only problem isno window to stick it in, and I have a brick veneer house. That soundslike major work to me, and Joanne (my wife) said "you are not putting ahole in my wall ! " I might try hanging it from the ceiling, and running avent for the hot air up to the attic. Any ideas? On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, andit's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, anddespite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosenthe motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. Thetable is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need touse some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I thinkanything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressedwith it either. But it should still be far more accurate than handdrilling. I need to get a drill blank or some other straight rod in orderto check the runout. Really looking forward to making some sawdust!Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
I've downloaded the AC43.13-1b and trying to print off a chapter every dayat work. Got the EAA wood book on order from Chris Bobka , the check goesin the mail today! Waiting for my prints to get here. My garage is looking better, got 4 shop lights up, WOW what adifference with some light! I'm going to put more up! There aren't verymany outlets in my garage, (3) so figuring out where to put those powerstrips and not blow breakers is fun. A shop vacuum is on the list too.Picked up a brand new kerosene heater at a yard sale, $40.00, never beenused. That will be good this winter, and when summer comes along I have anold window A/C unit that might or might not still work. The only problem isno window to stick it in, and I have a brick veneer house. That soundslike major work to me, and Joanne (my wife) said "you are not putting ahole in my wall ! " I might try hanging it from the ceiling, and running avent for the hot air up to the attic. Any ideas? On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, andit's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, anddespite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosenthe motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. Thetable is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need touse some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I thinkanything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressedwith it either. But it should still be far more accurate than handdrilling. I need to get a drill blank or some other straight rod in orderto check the runout. Really looking forward to making some sawdust!Kent ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Mac Zirges"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/16/01 5:33:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, KHallsten(at)Governair.com writes:> Bob or Doug, > If the white wood at my HD can be identified as Spruce or Hemlock,> as long as the grain, slope, and everything else are acceptable, is this> wood ok to use? I think I'll spend some time there this weekend looking it> over, and maybe I'll get over to the exotic/specialty wood store downtown> and see what they have. > > Another question. When it comes to spars, is splicing acceptable> in order to get the right length? > Thanks guys!!> > Kent,Spruce, Hemlock, and Fir from HD are all good woods and what I use. I have the best luck finding 2x4's for some reason. I even choose boards that are not totally clear for the shorter sticks and braces. It would be surprising to me if anyone from HD could identify the wood; you should do that youself. The Spruce from HD would be hard to identify between Sitka or Engleman. There isn't much Sitka cut any more and what is harvested may not end up in a lumber store. Engleman is not as strong, so I don't use it. Fir and Hemlock would be good choices. Scarfing is an acceptable method for joining wood together for length. It does add a little more work to the project. I scarf longerons and spars. For longerons, I have a simple method of sawing on the table saw wihout any special tools. Spars are a little more work using the router. 12 to 1 to 15 to 1 makes a good scarf.; 10 to 1 is minimum.Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/16/01 5:33:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, KHallsten(at)Governair.com writes:> Bob or Doug, > If the white wood at my HD can be identified as Spruce or Hemlock,> as long as the grain, slope, and everything else are acceptable, is this> wood ok to use? I think I'll spend some time there this weekend looking it> over, and maybe I'll get over to the exotic/specialty wood store downtown> and see what they have. > > Another question. When it comes to spars, is splicing acceptable> in order to get the right length? > Thanks guys!!> > Kent,Spruce, Hemlock, and Fir from HD are all good woods and what I use. I have the best luck finding 2x4's for some reason. I even choose boards that are not totally clear for the shorter sticks and braces. It would be surprising to me if anyone from HD could identify the wood; you should do that youself. The Spruce from HD would be hard to identify between Sitka or Engleman. There isn't much Sitka cut any more and what is harvested may not end up in a lumber store. Engleman is not as strong, so I don't use it. Fir and Hemlock would be good choices. Scarfing is an acceptable method for joining wood together for length. It does add a little more work to the project. I scarf longerons and spars. For longerons, I have a simple method of sawing on the table saw wihout any special tools. Spars are a little more work using the router. 12 to 1 to 15 to 1 makes a good scarf.; 10 to 1 is minimum.Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: RE:Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Jeffrey Wilcox"
On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, andit's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, anddespite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosenthe motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. Thetable is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need touse some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I thinkanything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressedwith it either.Hi Kent,I've developed a new philosophy about Sears tools - I don't buy anythingfrom Sears that requires gasoline or electricity. I started out building myPiet with a Sears table saw. Finally after ruining a bunch of expensiveaircraft grade spruce because the blade was not parallel to the miter slot,I GAVE the damn thing away and bought a new Delta table saw. Man, what adifference! Cutting wood with the Delta is almost a sexual experience, itis so smooth. With the Sears saw, every time I set it up for a cut I had tocheck the blade for squareness with the table and with the miter guage andfence. After about the thousandth time of checking the Delta and neverhaving to adjust it, I no longer worry about it.Sears still makes decent handtools, but their warrranties are changing. Iwas trying to straighten an old Taylorcraft tailwheel spring to use on myPietenpol, per the method Tony Bingelis describes, and I broke my oldCraftsman vise. I took it back to Sears and they refused to replace it. Idemanded to see the manager and he agreed that 25 years ago when I boughtit, they had a lifetime warranty. Now they only offer a year. Theyreluctantly replaced the vise, but I doubt it will last through anothertailwheel spring. It is nowhere near the quality of the old one.As for the A/C, I suggest you point out to your wife how much less laundryyou will generate if you are not sweating out in the shop. Adding a windowshould not be too big a deal if the studs are exposed, and it might actuallyimprove the resale value of the house.Good luck,JackPhillips________________________________________________________________________________
On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, andit's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, anddespite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosenthe motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. Thetable is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need touse some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I thinkanything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressedwith it either.Hi Kent,I've developed a new philosophy about Sears tools - I don't buy anythingfrom Sears that requires gasoline or electricity. I started out building myPiet with a Sears table saw. Finally after ruining a bunch of expensiveaircraft grade spruce because the blade was not parallel to the miter slot,I GAVE the damn thing away and bought a new Delta table saw. Man, what adifference! Cutting wood with the Delta is almost a sexual experience, itis so smooth. With the Sears saw, every time I set it up for a cut I had tocheck the blade for squareness with the table and with the miter guage andfence. After about the thousandth time of checking the Delta and neverhaving to adjust it, I no longer worry about it.Sears still makes decent handtools, but their warrranties are changing. Iwas trying to straighten an old Taylorcraft tailwheel spring to use on myPietenpol, per the method Tony Bingelis describes, and I broke my oldCraftsman vise. I took it back to Sears and they refused to replace it. Idemanded to see the manager and he agreed that 25 years ago when I boughtit, they had a lifetime warranty. Now they only offer a year. Theyreluctantly replaced the vise, but I doubt it will last through anothertailwheel spring. It is nowhere near the quality of the old one.As for the A/C, I suggest you point out to your wife how much less laundryyou will generate if you are not sweating out in the shop. Adding a windowshould not be too big a deal if the studs are exposed, and it might actuallyimprove the resale value of the house.Good luck,JackPhillips________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: RE:Wood Question
Original Posted By: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE:Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/16/01 1:53:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, jackphillips(at)earthlink.net writes:> >> > > On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, and> it's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, > and> despite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosen> the motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. > The> table is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need to> use some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I think> anything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressed> with it either.> > > Jack,I have a small Sears bandsaw which I will give you. It is useless to me. I use a sabre saw for nearly all cuting of small stuff and plywood. It seems to be faster for me and more reliable than the band saw. My table saw is 40 years old; I found it at a junk yard. It is an 8 inch Delta Homecraft, but it is a well made and square tool. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: RE:Wood QuestionIn a message dated 11/16/01 1:53:11 PM Pacific Standard Time, jackphillips(at)earthlink.net writes:> >> > > On the tool side, I'm trying to tune up my new Sears tablesaw, and> it's a challenge. The blade is out of square with the miter gauge slot, > and> despite what the manual claims, there does not seem to be a way to loosen> the motor and align the blade. A call to customer service is in order. > The> table is 'almost' flat, I wish I could afford a better saw, but I need to> use some money for a band saw, which I'm still looking for. I think> anything but Sears. I have a Sears drill press, and not too impressed> with it either.> > > Jack,I have a small Sears bandsaw which I will give you. It is useless to me. I use a sabre saw for nearly all cuting of small stuff and plywood. It seems to be faster for me and more reliable than the band saw. My table saw is 40 years old; I found it at a junk yard. It is an 8 inch Delta Homecraft, but it is a well made and square tool. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Kent Hallsten"
Concerning "whitewood"; about 5 years ago, when I was scouting sources ofalternatives ot sitka spruce for my Piet, I happened to meet a wholesalelumber salesman at a lumber yard. In the conversation, I asked aboutwhitewood and he said that there were at least 28 different softwood speciesthat could be called white wood.I wound up using douglas fir for all of the structurally significant partsof the Piet. I have a book called "Understanding Wood", a craftsman's guideto wood technology by R. Bruce Hoadley, which is an excellent source ofinformation. It has a Table-- Strength properties of commercially importantwoods found in the US which lists some 50 species of soft and hard woods.The properties included include: compression, tension, shear and staticbending. I would reccomend this book highly to get an understanding of woodtechnology.It notes that wood from the same tree can vary in its properties, so one hasto evaluate each piece separately.I did not find that Home Depot was a very good source of clear stock. Ifound that 2" dimension lumber was the most useful size and I found thatgoing to lumber yards that cater to the professional trade are apt tocarrystocks of clear trim stock, i.e. clear, (free from knots,checks andwanes) and straight. After selecting a number of suitable pieces, I"hefted" them and found the lightest ones. When I got them home, I weighedthem and computed the densities. One has to remember that the densitiesusually refered to are nominal, relative to the specific gravity of water.The nominal density of spruce is given as 0.4 which equates to about 25lbs/cu ft. The nominal density of doug fir is given as 0.48 or 30 lbs/cu ft.I found that my fir sticks ranged from about 25.5 to 29 lbs/cu ft. Mythought is that you can get satisfactory wood by careful selection based ona little knowledge of what you are looking for. I paid from $1.28 to $1.44per lineal foot of 2x4 stock.When I made my laminated spars I color coded the strips from each 2x4 and used the lightest ones in the center of the spar and the heavier ones on theout side to get a beam effect. (made the spars 3/4"). My thoughts are thatyou can be overcritical in selecting the material for structural pieces andthat BHP built a big safety factor into his design. Larry Harrison made hiswhole Piet out of wood from a poplar tree and hes got a super performingairplane.Wishing all hands a Happy Thanksgiving.Lou Larsen----- Original Message -----
Concerning "whitewood"; about 5 years ago, when I was scouting sources ofalternatives ot sitka spruce for my Piet, I happened to meet a wholesalelumber salesman at a lumber yard. In the conversation, I asked aboutwhitewood and he said that there were at least 28 different softwood speciesthat could be called white wood.I wound up using douglas fir for all of the structurally significant partsof the Piet. I have a book called "Understanding Wood", a craftsman's guideto wood technology by R. Bruce Hoadley, which is an excellent source ofinformation. It has a Table-- Strength properties of commercially importantwoods found in the US which lists some 50 species of soft and hard woods.The properties included include: compression, tension, shear and staticbending. I would reccomend this book highly to get an understanding of woodtechnology.It notes that wood from the same tree can vary in its properties, so one hasto evaluate each piece separately.I did not find that Home Depot was a very good source of clear stock. Ifound that 2" dimension lumber was the most useful size and I found thatgoing to lumber yards that cater to the professional trade are apt tocarrystocks of clear trim stock, i.e. clear, (free from knots,checks andwanes) and straight. After selecting a number of suitable pieces, I"hefted" them and found the lightest ones. When I got them home, I weighedthem and computed the densities. One has to remember that the densitiesusually refered to are nominal, relative to the specific gravity of water.The nominal density of spruce is given as 0.4 which equates to about 25lbs/cu ft. The nominal density of doug fir is given as 0.48 or 30 lbs/cu ft.I found that my fir sticks ranged from about 25.5 to 29 lbs/cu ft. Mythought is that you can get satisfactory wood by careful selection based ona little knowledge of what you are looking for. I paid from $1.28 to $1.44per lineal foot of 2x4 stock.When I made my laminated spars I color coded the strips from each 2x4 and used the lightest ones in the center of the spar and the heavier ones on theout side to get a beam effect. (made the spars 3/4"). My thoughts are thatyou can be overcritical in selecting the material for structural pieces andthat BHP built a big safety factor into his design. Larry Harrison made hiswhole Piet out of wood from a poplar tree and hes got a super performingairplane.Wishing all hands a Happy Thanksgiving.Lou Larsen----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
An idea that I had about using Home Depot wood is to generate a laminatedspar. I like the idea of laminating strips as opposed to trusting a singlepiece of wood, especially one that is not sawn, dried, and selected asaircraft quality.Very much like you would laminate several boards to make a tabletop, I wouldconsider several strips of 3/4" x 3/4" glued together to make a single boardof 3/4" x whatever and stagger them at the ends to make a really long board.I would even consider using one of those special router bits that increasethe gluing area, like a tounge-and-groove or a finger joint. For glue, Iwould be comfortable with Titebond II... darn good glue.Now for the curve ball: Like an I-beam, which increases it's moment ofinertia (which directly affects bending resistance) by adding a flange atthe top and bottom separated by a center web, I would consider mixing woodspecies. Imagine if you used a few strips of a lighter but weaker wood inthe center of the beam and capped that with a strong yet heavier wood. Thismethod may provide an optomized board, increasing strength and minimizingweight.Just some thoughts to keep conversation going.Robert HainesMurphysboro, Illinois________________________________________________________________________________
An idea that I had about using Home Depot wood is to generate a laminatedspar. I like the idea of laminating strips as opposed to trusting a singlepiece of wood, especially one that is not sawn, dried, and selected asaircraft quality.Very much like you would laminate several boards to make a tabletop, I wouldconsider several strips of 3/4" x 3/4" glued together to make a single boardof 3/4" x whatever and stagger them at the ends to make a really long board.I would even consider using one of those special router bits that increasethe gluing area, like a tounge-and-groove or a finger joint. For glue, Iwould be comfortable with Titebond II... darn good glue.Now for the curve ball: Like an I-beam, which increases it's moment ofinertia (which directly affects bending resistance) by adding a flange atthe top and bottom separated by a center web, I would consider mixing woodspecies. Imagine if you used a few strips of a lighter but weaker wood inthe center of the beam and capped that with a strong yet heavier wood. Thismethod may provide an optomized board, increasing strength and minimizingweight.Just some thoughts to keep conversation going.Robert HainesMurphysboro, Illinois________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
Robert Haines said:Now for the curve ball: Like an I-beam, which increases it's moment ofinertia (which directly affects bending resistance) by adding a flange atthe top and bottom separated by a center web, I would consider mixing woodspecies. Imagine if you used a few strips of a lighter but weaker wood inthe center of the beam and capped that with a strong yet heavier wood. Thismethod may provide an optomized board, increasing strength and minimizingweight.Just some thoughts to keep conversation going.Robert HainesMurphysboro, IllinoisRobert, there was a good article by Bob Whittier in one of the recent issuesof EAA Experimenter where he showed some pictures of laminated propellerswith light and dark wood. He mentioned that some airplanes had mixedspecies exactly as you are describing, but added the caution that due todifferences in expansion due to humidity changes it could cause problems. Ithink if you used a good epoxy varnish like PolyFiber makes (and is veryproud of, by the price) you could avoid these problems. Spar varnish isintended to let the wood breathe and will not keep humidity changes frommaking the wood swell and shrink.I'm a big fan of lamination, and have laminated several pieces of myPietenpol, for increased strength and rigidity. I have laminated thewingtips, the circular cutout in the centersection, the landing gear struts(I'm building the straight axle, wire wheel type), and now I'm in theprocess of laminating the bows for the cowling supports. Much lighter andstronger than plywood, since the laminations follow the curve all the wayaround. I've used resorcinol for all laminations. I don't know if I wouldtrust Titebond, because if it's what I'm thinking of, it definitely is notwaterproof.Jack Phillips________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:57:31 -0800
Robert Haines said:Now for the curve ball: Like an I-beam, which increases it's moment ofinertia (which directly affects bending resistance) by adding a flange atthe top and bottom separated by a center web, I would consider mixing woodspecies. Imagine if you used a few strips of a lighter but weaker wood inthe center of the beam and capped that with a strong yet heavier wood. Thismethod may provide an optomized board, increasing strength and minimizingweight.Just some thoughts to keep conversation going.Robert HainesMurphysboro, IllinoisRobert, there was a good article by Bob Whittier in one of the recent issuesof EAA Experimenter where he showed some pictures of laminated propellerswith light and dark wood. He mentioned that some airplanes had mixedspecies exactly as you are describing, but added the caution that due todifferences in expansion due to humidity changes it could cause problems. Ithink if you used a good epoxy varnish like PolyFiber makes (and is veryproud of, by the price) you could avoid these problems. Spar varnish isintended to let the wood breathe and will not keep humidity changes frommaking the wood swell and shrink.I'm a big fan of lamination, and have laminated several pieces of myPietenpol, for increased strength and rigidity. I have laminated thewingtips, the circular cutout in the centersection, the landing gear struts(I'm building the straight axle, wire wheel type), and now I'm in theprocess of laminating the bows for the cowling supports. Much lighter andstronger than plywood, since the laminations follow the curve all the wayaround. I've used resorcinol for all laminations. I don't know if I wouldtrust Titebond, because if it's what I'm thinking of, it definitely is notwaterproof.Jack Phillips________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:57:31 -0800
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Question
Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com