Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128Fisherman: Those 8 turnbuckles are just for your tail plane. You stillneed a gob of them on the ends of each control cable, lift strutbracing, interplane bracing, and the X bracing inside of the wing. Ifound mine at the Fly market (oshkosh) for $5 each, but took me 3 yearsto collect enough for my Piet. The Piet is a cheap barnyard airplanealright,--compared to other planes only. You still need to use properstuff and techniques if you want to stay alive. The space shuttleChallenger used "hardware store" O-rings in it's fuel tanks, remember?Grahm Hansen is 200% right on in his post. There is no way in the worldto build a cheap air plane trully cheap if you want it safe. Leon S. ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Fisherman Caye
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Jim Sury
Among other um, er, interesting comments, Fisherman Caye wrote:> But getting back to the horizontal and vertical stabilizer outside bracingwire,> rod, or what have you. Today, I found in the Hardware store assorted> galvanized turnbuckles around $1.69 each, almost exactly like the aircraftones.> Round body, smooth and aerodynamic, etc. Small and petite! Now AN grade> turnbuckles the same size are according to specs, 15 % stronger thanhardware> store turnbuckles at $16 a pop! This hardware store turnbuckle has alonger> thread shank though. More threads, same aluminum. The pulling weightsays 45 lbs.Sigh. I'm kicking myself for bothering to respond, but...The same guy I mentioned in the last message, about the non-turnbuckleadjusters, also tested out hardware store turnbuckles to see whether theywould be a viable substitute for AN hardware in his meant-to-be ultralight.These weren't round-bodied, but the medium-sized ones with open, moreor less rectangular, aluminum bodies. He found that the weak point wasthe eye of the bolts, which opened up under tension. By welding themclosed, he found he could reliably put 900 lb of tension on the turnbucklesbefore they gave way. Don't recall whether the limiting factor was thealuminum bodies or the welded eyes.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:31:55 -0600
Among other um, er, interesting comments, Fisherman Caye wrote:> But getting back to the horizontal and vertical stabilizer outside bracingwire,> rod, or what have you. Today, I found in the Hardware store assorted> galvanized turnbuckles around $1.69 each, almost exactly like the aircraftones.> Round body, smooth and aerodynamic, etc. Small and petite! Now AN grade> turnbuckles the same size are according to specs, 15 % stronger thanhardware> store turnbuckles at $16 a pop! This hardware store turnbuckle has alonger> thread shank though. More threads, same aluminum. The pulling weightsays 45 lbs.Sigh. I'm kicking myself for bothering to respond, but...The same guy I mentioned in the last message, about the non-turnbuckleadjusters, also tested out hardware store turnbuckles to see whether theywould be a viable substitute for AN hardware in his meant-to-be ultralight.These weren't round-bodied, but the medium-sized ones with open, moreor less rectangular, aluminum bodies. He found that the weak point wasthe eye of the bolts, which opened up under tension. By welding themclosed, he found he could reliably put 900 lb of tension on the turnbucklesbefore they gave way. Don't recall whether the limiting factor was thealuminum bodies or the welded eyes.Owen Davies________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:31:55 -0600
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Fisherman Caye
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 12:04:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, cayecaulker(at)justice.com writes:> You gave me a good laugh and a shudder at the same time. I have been > thinking about all those control cables, turnbuckles and accessories, > believe me? I think it is going to run $500 to $600 easily. But in the > meantime, I am not trying to think about it.> > But getting back to the horizontal and vertical stabilizer outside > bracing wire, rod, or what have you. Today, I found in the Hardware store > assorted galvanized turnbuckles around $1.69 each, almost exactly like the > aircraft ones. Round body, smooth and aerodynamic, etc. Small and petite! > Now AN grade turnbuckles the same size are according to specs, 15 % > stronger than hardware store turnbuckles at $16 a pop! This hardware > store turnbuckle has a longer thread shank though. More threads, same > aluminum. The pulling weight says 45 lbs. The AN one therefore would be + > 15 % or 52 lbs pulling weight. But the hardware one with a longer insert > and more threads, should have more pulling strength than the AN one then? > Also, a leeetle three turns of tying wire to lock the turnbuckle down in > place, from one end to the other, should make it 100 % stronger than the AN > aircraft $16 one? And give peace of mind. I think the hardware > turnbuckles with reinforcing locking tying !> wire are plenty strong enough? Wire stretches, so I can see why you would > need turnbuckles. Even on yachts, that 1/4 inch stainless pulpit guard > rail wire stretches six inches in two years or so.> But I like the comment on piano wire. Hmmmnn! What makes you say that > is strong enough? Anybody using it? The brass rod I saw was too short at > 3 feet. I think the distance is around 42 inches on mine, so you need > around 52 inches of rod at 3/16 to make eyes at the ends. Have not been > able to find any 3/16 rod of any kind in Home Depot or Hardware stores long > enough to do me any good. Need eight pieces about 52 inches long, to work > with, if I go that route. The 1/8 rod, is the thickness of clothes hanger > wire? But surely not as weak as that? Though for compression and pull, it > would be okay. Any further commentary on different types of braces for > rear tail external stabilizers?> > > Guys,I am using 8 of the cable tangs from RANS on the tail flying wires for my Scout. This is my first attempt to use something other than turnbuckles here. These tangs are used on all the externally braced RANS models. They cost $1.50 ea and are .075 (14 ga) 300 series stainless. I have already rigged the tail and the tangs are quite nice. I will list the part number if any body wants it, however, I just called them and described what I wanted without knowing the P/N. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 12:04:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, cayecaulker(at)justice.com writes:> You gave me a good laugh and a shudder at the same time. I have been > thinking about all those control cables, turnbuckles and accessories, > believe me? I think it is going to run $500 to $600 easily. But in the > meantime, I am not trying to think about it.> > But getting back to the horizontal and vertical stabilizer outside > bracing wire, rod, or what have you. Today, I found in the Hardware store > assorted galvanized turnbuckles around $1.69 each, almost exactly like the > aircraft ones. Round body, smooth and aerodynamic, etc. Small and petite! > Now AN grade turnbuckles the same size are according to specs, 15 % > stronger than hardware store turnbuckles at $16 a pop! This hardware > store turnbuckle has a longer thread shank though. More threads, same > aluminum. The pulling weight says 45 lbs. The AN one therefore would be + > 15 % or 52 lbs pulling weight. But the hardware one with a longer insert > and more threads, should have more pulling strength than the AN one then? > Also, a leeetle three turns of tying wire to lock the turnbuckle down in > place, from one end to the other, should make it 100 % stronger than the AN > aircraft $16 one? And give peace of mind. I think the hardware > turnbuckles with reinforcing locking tying !> wire are plenty strong enough? Wire stretches, so I can see why you would > need turnbuckles. Even on yachts, that 1/4 inch stainless pulpit guard > rail wire stretches six inches in two years or so.> But I like the comment on piano wire. Hmmmnn! What makes you say that > is strong enough? Anybody using it? The brass rod I saw was too short at > 3 feet. I think the distance is around 42 inches on mine, so you need > around 52 inches of rod at 3/16 to make eyes at the ends. Have not been > able to find any 3/16 rod of any kind in Home Depot or Hardware stores long > enough to do me any good. Need eight pieces about 52 inches long, to work > with, if I go that route. The 1/8 rod, is the thickness of clothes hanger > wire? But surely not as weak as that? Though for compression and pull, it > would be okay. Any further commentary on different types of braces for > rear tail external stabilizers?> > > Guys,I am using 8 of the cable tangs from RANS on the tail flying wires for my Scout. This is my first attempt to use something other than turnbuckles here. These tangs are used on all the externally braced RANS models. They cost $1.50 ea and are .075 (14 ga) 300 series stainless. I have already rigged the tail and the tangs are quite nice. I will list the part number if any body wants it, however, I just called them and described what I wanted without knowing the P/N. Doug Bryant________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Where is there aluminum in a an AN turnbuckle? The barrel is Navy brasswith a class one fine thread and the steel parts are high tensile strengthsteel.chris bobka-----Original Message-----
Where is there aluminum in a an AN turnbuckle? The barrel is Navy brasswith a class one fine thread and the steel parts are high tensile strengthsteel.chris bobka-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: "Owen Davies"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 7:15:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:> I have a friend who built a Wolf Boredom Fighter who used the motorcycle> links on his tail section. They are very strong and designed to take a > great> deal of abuse. He has been happy with them.> > I got my plans last week and am reviewing them. I have one Spruce main spar> from an Aeronca that was given to me and will be using that to make the > tail> section up first. I hate to cut into it, it's like every grain of sawdust > is> money on the floor, like gold dust. No time at the moment though as I am on> a tight deadline at work, but maybe by months end. Pretty cool plans > though.> > Also, I received Mike Cuy's video. Nice amateur video with some cool> ideas/alterations (which I may be borrowing). About 2 1/2 hours long. So> like he says, pour a cup of coffee first.
> > Regards,> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.> MyKitPlane.com> EAA 665957> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> http://www.mykitplane.com> > Gary,I used motocycle master link covers (removable part) for the first three Piets, but now I can't seem to find any more large quantites. The ones I had came from a surplus store here in Wichita called the Yard, but I bought and consumed all they had. If you find a source, let me know, please. I have not tried buying chain and breaking the links apart with a chain breaker, but that might work fine. The link covers I used had convenient 3/16 holes. They also have a part which looks like a heavy sheet metal shackle and that is what I am using (by drilling the holes and doing some grinding) on the Scout, which is in work now. There always seems to more than one way to skin the cat. The spar wood will make a nice tail section. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 7:15:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com writes:> I have a friend who built a Wolf Boredom Fighter who used the motorcycle> links on his tail section. They are very strong and designed to take a > great> deal of abuse. He has been happy with them.> > I got my plans last week and am reviewing them. I have one Spruce main spar> from an Aeronca that was given to me and will be using that to make the > tail> section up first. I hate to cut into it, it's like every grain of sawdust > is> money on the floor, like gold dust. No time at the moment though as I am on> a tight deadline at work, but maybe by months end. Pretty cool plans > though.> > Also, I received Mike Cuy's video. Nice amateur video with some cool> ideas/alterations (which I may be borrowing). About 2 1/2 hours long. So> like he says, pour a cup of coffee first.
> > Regards,> > Gary P. McNeel, Jr.> MyKitPlane.com> EAA 665957> gmcneel(at)mykitplane.com> http://www.mykitplane.com> > Gary,I used motocycle master link covers (removable part) for the first three Piets, but now I can't seem to find any more large quantites. The ones I had came from a surplus store here in Wichita called the Yard, but I bought and consumed all they had. If you find a source, let me know, please. I have not tried buying chain and breaking the links apart with a chain breaker, but that might work fine. The link covers I used had convenient 3/16 holes. They also have a part which looks like a heavy sheet metal shackle and that is what I am using (by drilling the holes and doing some grinding) on the Scout, which is in work now. There always seems to more than one way to skin the cat. The spar wood will make a nice tail section. Doug Bryant Wichita, Ks________________________________________________________________________________Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wedges
Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wedgesIn a message dated 2/10/02 7:20:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:> Hey guys...> > The plans call out for spruce wedges to be used in between vertical and> diagonal members in the cocpit area... I am wondering if that is meant> to be at all vertical and diagonal joints. I can figure by looking at> the plans that the only reason they are where they are is the landing> gear, but really isn't the wedge there to increase glue area? Just> curious.> > Tom Brant,> > Tom,Those are for the landing gear area as shown. The landing gear bolts pass thru that area. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wedgesIn a message dated 2/10/02 7:20:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, tmbrant(at)uswest.net writes:> Hey guys...> > The plans call out for spruce wedges to be used in between vertical and> diagonal members in the cocpit area... I am wondering if that is meant> to be at all vertical and diagonal joints. I can figure by looking at> the plans that the only reason they are where they are is the landing> gear, but really isn't the wedge there to increase glue area? Just> curious.> > Tom Brant,> > Tom,Those are for the landing gear area as shown. The landing gear bolts pass thru that area. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Doug413(at)aol.com
Fisherman Caye wrote:> Very good mon! Lovely technical stuff. Great, can go with hardwareturnbuckles> then, if I decided to go with them? Just fix the eye gap.Not as far as I am concerned! What you do is strictly between you,your heirs, and the FAA inspector you hope will sign it off. As forthat last, my one firm bit of advice would be, don't hold your breath.Owen________________________________________________________________________________
Fisherman Caye wrote:> Very good mon! Lovely technical stuff. Great, can go with hardwareturnbuckles> then, if I decided to go with them? Just fix the eye gap.Not as far as I am concerned! What you do is strictly between you,your heirs, and the FAA inspector you hope will sign it off. As forthat last, my one firm bit of advice would be, don't hold your breath.Owen________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Doug,If the master links from chains you use are what I think they are, we canbuy them here at the farm supply store called mills fleet farm in theretractor parts area.Should have million more in kansasChris-----Original Message-----
Doug,If the master links from chains you use are what I think they are, we canbuy them here at the farm supply store called mills fleet farm in theretractor parts area.Should have million more in kansasChris-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: clif
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 8:04:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, bobka(at)charter.net writes:> Doug,> > If the master links from chains you use are what I think they are, we can> buy them here at the farm supply store called mills fleet farm in there> tractor parts area.> > Should have million more in kansas> > Chris> > Chris,The ones I found were just the master link cover, I did not have to buy the whole master link. There may be some other way though. I tried a bearing and chain supply here and all they offered was the entire link and it takes quite a few for an aircraft. Now I am using the part that looks like an undrilled shackle. I will try some more locations for the link. I bought a thousand clevis bolts and castlated nuts surplus and need to use them. Thanks for the info. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 01:28:49 -0800
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128In a message dated 2/10/02 8:04:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, bobka(at)charter.net writes:> Doug,> > If the master links from chains you use are what I think they are, we can> buy them here at the farm supply store called mills fleet farm in there> tractor parts area.> > Should have million more in kansas> > Chris> > Chris,The ones I found were just the master link cover, I did not have to buy the whole master link. There may be some other way though. I tried a bearing and chain supply here and all they offered was the entire link and it takes quite a few for an aircraft. Now I am using the part that looks like an undrilled shackle. I will try some more locations for the link. I bought a thousand clevis bolts and castlated nuts surplus and need to use them. Thanks for the info. Doug Bryant ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 01:28:49 -0800
RE: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: "Tom & Michelle Brant"
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Fisherman Caye
Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce wedges
Original Posted By: Fisherman Caye
> Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: Fisherman Caye
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: JEFFREY WILCOX
Re: Pietenpol-List: 8 turnbuckles @ $128
Original Posted By: "Tom & Michelle Brant"
If you have an industrial site close by and know any mechanics orstores personnel, ask them if they have any Reynolds 51 industrialdrive chain. If you carefully grind off the riveted end pins, you willfind you have links with exact 3/16 inch holes. Once the pins areground, I used a drift pin to remove them. This gives 2 useful linksper go. Often when they charge out the lengths required they will have1 or 2 feet left over that they throw out. It comes in long lengths. Iexplored used chain and found that even though some of the side linkswere worn pretty badly, the pin holes were still an interference fit.You will be left with the inner assembly that has 1/4 inch holes.Haven't found a use for those links yet. Hope this helps! I couldn'tfind motorcycle links either when I started. Some of the chain that Ifound was in service on 50HP drives for about 15 years continuousservice, and could still be used. (I didn't)Good luck,-=Ian=-________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:37:43 -0800
If you have an industrial site close by and know any mechanics orstores personnel, ask them if they have any Reynolds 51 industrialdrive chain. If you carefully grind off the riveted end pins, you willfind you have links with exact 3/16 inch holes. Once the pins areground, I used a drift pin to remove them. This gives 2 useful linksper go. Often when they charge out the lengths required they will have1 or 2 feet left over that they throw out. It comes in long lengths. Iexplored used chain and found that even though some of the side linkswere worn pretty badly, the pin holes were still an interference fit.You will be left with the inner assembly that has 1/4 inch holes.Haven't found a use for those links yet. Hope this helps! I couldn'tfind motorcycle links either when I started. Some of the chain that Ifound was in service on 50HP drives for about 15 years continuousservice, and could still be used. (I didn't)Good luck,-=Ian=-________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:37:43 -0800