Original Posted By: "Warren D. Shoun"
I got an email from John Grega this morning.Says he's been following my progress... he's a nit picky old dude Says I should have NOT lengthened my fuselage. Says the CG will be way offand wont be able to even get it in the air. ??!!*%&* WHAT?!I did the math... pushed my seat back a couple inches and moved the firewallforward a bit. The CG should be fine. There are plenty of guyslengthening the Piet right?? Todays pilots are much taller than 1929.]Should I have heeded his warnings or is he just being an old fart?! geeeezhe's got to be around 85 or so now...This isn't my first email from him where he was telling me I'm doing it allwrong. Any other GN-1 builders had to deal with his stuff?DJ VeghMesa, AZGN-1 Builderwww.raptoronline.comN74DV________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 08:35:54 -0800
Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
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Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. Ihave a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet andchrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes aswell :-)What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tailsurface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is thereany corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....blah blah blah.I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.DJ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:22 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. Ihave a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet andchrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes aswell :-)What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tailsurface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is thereany corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....blah blah blah.I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.DJ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:54:22 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ? Hydrogen embrittlement is easiely cured by baking the part in a oven for a few hours, any crome shop should know how to do it and how to test the part to be sure it is back to its original strenth. Of course , this is something you have to ask for when you send them the part ,, and pay extra for.hth,Harry________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ? Hydrogen embrittlement is easiely cured by baking the part in a oven for a few hours, any crome shop should know how to do it and how to test the part to be sure it is back to its original strenth. Of course , this is something you have to ask for when you send them the part ,, and pay extra for.hth,Harry________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I agree with John. I used to work for Menasco Manufacturing Co., buildinglanding gear for F-16's (among other planes). Chrome plating was never usedon structural parts. Ti-Cad plating was used some, even though that alsocaused hydrogen embrittlement, but the parts were then baked for severalhours in a vacuum heat treat oven. Unless you have acess to such equipment,I would stay away from chroming the tail brace wires. If you want themshiny, get Brunton Stainless Steel wires and then polish them.Jack -----Original Message-----
I agree with John. I used to work for Menasco Manufacturing Co., buildinglanding gear for F-16's (among other planes). Chrome plating was never usedon structural parts. Ti-Cad plating was used some, even though that alsocaused hydrogen embrittlement, but the parts were then baked for severalhours in a vacuum heat treat oven. Unless you have acess to such equipment,I would stay away from chroming the tail brace wires. If you want themshiny, get Brunton Stainless Steel wires and then polish them.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
ok... I've heard all I need to hear. no chroming. by the way Jack, Iwasn't talking about chroming the tail wires, just the 4130 tabs they mountto.So, now that chroming seems out of the picture, whats wrong with mirrorpolished 6061 ?DJ----- Original Message -----
ok... I've heard all I need to hear. no chroming. by the way Jack, Iwasn't talking about chroming the tail wires, just the 4130 tabs they mountto.So, now that chroming seems out of the picture, whats wrong with mirrorpolished 6061 ?DJ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
Make sure your chrome plater knows the parts are for an airplane and they will take extra measures to preclude hydrogen embrittlement.>From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0700>>>there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. I>have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet >and>chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as>well
>>What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail>surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is there>any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?>>I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....>blah blah blah.>>I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.>>DJ>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide ... ______Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:54:16 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?
Make sure your chrome plater knows the parts are for an airplane and they will take extra measures to preclude hydrogen embrittlement.>From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 11:27:35 -0700>>>there's a few metal parts/brackets I was thinking about having chromed. I>have a long history in custom sport truck building where polished billet >and>chrome equal godliness. Somehow with me it's carried over to planes as>well
>>What are the ramifications to having some parts chromed? mainly the tail>surface wire support tabs, rudder, elevator, aileron horns, etc. Is there>any corrosion or other negative effects with having chromed parts?>>I know some of you will need to tell me I'm adding weight by chroming.....>blah blah blah.>>I'm not interested that..... I just wanna know if it's safe.>>DJ>>MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide ... ______Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:54:16 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: chrome metal parts ?Re: Pietenpol-List: Flight test plan
Original Posted By: "Larry Neal"
Larry (and anyone else getting ready to have their "First Flight),Sorry I am over a month late in replying to this. I have been soo involvedwith building my Piet (and catching up with Fisherman's lengthy sagas) thatI gotover a month behind in email reading.I am an EAA Flight Advisor. There is an EAA Tech Counselor (that has beenrefered to here from time to time) that inspects your work during thebuilding process. When you have it finished you should then involve aFlight Advisor before you fly for the first time. In fact, I believe thatsome insurance companies require it before they will insure you. The flightadvisor will help you decide if you are ready to fly in your new plane.S/he will have a check list and discuss your abilities as well as the planescharacteristics. There is also an EAA video called First Flight. Exellent.I would suggest you find a Flight Advisor soon and begin the process. Thesituation I keep running into is that pilots contact me the day before theywant to fly (probably because the insurance company told them they had to).When we talk and find out they have been so busy building that they haven'tflown ANY airplane in the past ____ years it is difficult to convince themthat they should take some flying lessons from a CFI to become current in aplane they know flys well. It is scary enough to have an aircraft that hasnever been off the ground before-and then add in a rusty pilot.I am not trying to scare you but just get you thinking about it soon enoughto enter this phase of aircraft constuction in a calm and orderly and safemanner.Safe flying.Ted Brousseau----- Original Message -----
Larry (and anyone else getting ready to have their "First Flight),Sorry I am over a month late in replying to this. I have been soo involvedwith building my Piet (and catching up with Fisherman's lengthy sagas) thatI gotover a month behind in email reading.I am an EAA Flight Advisor. There is an EAA Tech Counselor (that has beenrefered to here from time to time) that inspects your work during thebuilding process. When you have it finished you should then involve aFlight Advisor before you fly for the first time. In fact, I believe thatsome insurance companies require it before they will insure you. The flightadvisor will help you decide if you are ready to fly in your new plane.S/he will have a check list and discuss your abilities as well as the planescharacteristics. There is also an EAA video called First Flight. Exellent.I would suggest you find a Flight Advisor soon and begin the process. Thesituation I keep running into is that pilots contact me the day before theywant to fly (probably because the insurance company told them they had to).When we talk and find out they have been so busy building that they haven'tflown ANY airplane in the past ____ years it is difficult to convince themthat they should take some flying lessons from a CFI to become current in aplane they know flys well. It is scary enough to have an aircraft that hasnever been off the ground before-and then add in a rusty pilot.I am not trying to scare you but just get you thinking about it soon enoughto enter this phase of aircraft constuction in a calm and orderly and safemanner.Safe flying.Ted Brousseau----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Flight test plan
Original Posted By: Larry Neal
Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: "Michael D Cuy"
Better yet ask him for a copy of the weight and balance he did on one of hisplanes..... ;>)Bert----- Original Message -----
Better yet ask him for a copy of the weight and balance he did on one of hisplanes..... ;>)Bert----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
Perhaps you could call your airplane a "Vegh Aircamper", orsomething like that.Designers are understandably sensitive to people making changes to their creations. If built as designed, the aircraft will have predictable characteristics justifying all the work put into developing and proving it to be a sound a/c.It sounds as if you have put a lot of thought and effort into modi-fying the basic design and I hope it turns out well. But, in so doing, you have assumed the role of designer--- and when you fly it you will be testing your design, not Mr. Grega's.Some time ago a friend, who had previously built a fine JodelD-9 to the plans and a very nice modified Taylor Monoplane, began construction of a "Pietenpol" which was to use a pair of fabric-covered Luscombe wings. He insisted on calling it a Pie-tenpol, which it certainly wasn't, and I urged him to call it the "--------- Parasol", or something similar. Alas, he died before it was finished and I don't know what has happened to it. He was a great craftsman and it would have been a nice airplane, but it would never have been a Pietenpol! I can see Mr. Grega's point of view very clearly. For many rea-sons, including liability, he wishes to disassociate himself fromyour project. By simply changing the designation or name youcould relieve him of his concerns.Good luck with your project!Graham Hansen EAA 2063 (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________
Perhaps you could call your airplane a "Vegh Aircamper", orsomething like that.Designers are understandably sensitive to people making changes to their creations. If built as designed, the aircraft will have predictable characteristics justifying all the work put into developing and proving it to be a sound a/c.It sounds as if you have put a lot of thought and effort into modi-fying the basic design and I hope it turns out well. But, in so doing, you have assumed the role of designer--- and when you fly it you will be testing your design, not Mr. Grega's.Some time ago a friend, who had previously built a fine JodelD-9 to the plans and a very nice modified Taylor Monoplane, began construction of a "Pietenpol" which was to use a pair of fabric-covered Luscombe wings. He insisted on calling it a Pie-tenpol, which it certainly wasn't, and I urged him to call it the "--------- Parasol", or something similar. Alas, he died before it was finished and I don't know what has happened to it. He was a great craftsman and it would have been a nice airplane, but it would never have been a Pietenpol! I can see Mr. Grega's point of view very clearly. For many rea-sons, including liability, he wishes to disassociate himself fromyour project. By simply changing the designation or name youcould relieve him of his concerns.Good luck with your project!Graham Hansen EAA 2063 (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John GregaIn a message dated 3/23/02 10:08:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:>Well ??? ... DJ .... why did you buy the Grega plans over the Piet plans ? I have neither set of plans and don't know the intimate details of the Grega, but am familiar with the Piet. I have the Flying and Glider manuals and have almost read the words off the pages going over the Piet article that BHP himself wrote. Is there somewhere I could go online to find out more about the Grega and why someone like yourself would choose it over the Piet ?I'll go take a look at google.com and see what I can find.BTW, DJ, took at look at your construction logs and pictures, some of those pages take a while to load. Nice pictures though. What did you pay for the wood kit from Aircraft Spruce ? -dennis the menace________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: email from John GregaIn a message dated 3/23/02 10:08:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, aircamper(at)imagedv.com writes:>Well ??? ... DJ .... why did you buy the Grega plans over the Piet plans ? I have neither set of plans and don't know the intimate details of the Grega, but am familiar with the Piet. I have the Flying and Glider manuals and have almost read the words off the pages going over the Piet article that BHP himself wrote. Is there somewhere I could go online to find out more about the Grega and why someone like yourself would choose it over the Piet ?I'll go take a look at google.com and see what I can find.BTW, DJ, took at look at your construction logs and pictures, some of those pages take a while to load. Nice pictures though. What did you pay for the wood kit from Aircraft Spruce ? -dennis the menace________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: email from John Grega
Original Posted By: Larry Neal
DJ,The buauty of it is: HE DOESN'T HAVE TO APPORVE!!! The FAA is going to callit a "Veigh GN-1" anyway.That said, it is a shame that someone as intimately associated with ourplanes has such an attitude.Gene Hubbard1934 Plans (mostly)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:46:58 -0600
DJ,The buauty of it is: HE DOESN'T HAVE TO APPORVE!!! The FAA is going to callit a "Veigh GN-1" anyway.That said, it is a shame that someone as intimately associated with ourplanes has such an attitude.Gene Hubbard1934 Plans (mostly)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 09:46:58 -0600