Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Just to add another incident/accident to the knowledge base: a couple of days ago a man was burned just south of here while filling 7 portable containers in the back of his truck, on his way to the farm. While filling the last container a flash ignited the vapors and off she went. There was no mention of the type of container, but my suspicion is that it was plastic jugs. We have had some cooler, drier weather with attendant low humidity, and static electricity is suspected. The article did say that the risk might have been reduced if the man had placed the containers down on the concrete before refueling. Fortunately, we have a world-class burn center here (U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research) so the victim is in great hands.This subject has come up before in connection with the use of auto gas and portable containers, but some folks don't understand how a non-conductive container (like plastic) could possibly cause a spark that could ignite fuel vapors.Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
RE: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Here in Canada at least in Manitoba it is illegal to fill a container whileit is in a vehicle.Place it on the ground. Touch the can and a metal part of the nozzle withyour hand before touching the nozzle to the can.It is also a good idea to touch the vehicle with your hand before picking upthe cans. How many times have you seen or felt that charge as you touch thedoor handle? More importantly clipping the ground lead to the exhaust stackor metal parts of your airframe doesn't bond the tank mounted up there inthe wood wing. Some wooden aircraft have bonding or grounding plugsinstalled near the tank and braided copper ribbons fitted into the nonconductive tank. Our PT 19 Cornell (wood wing) has this arrangement. Justout of curiosity I checked continuity between the tank and engine and foundit to be in effect an open. Therefore the bonding socket.John-----Original Message-----
Here in Canada at least in Manitoba it is illegal to fill a container whileit is in a vehicle.Place it on the ground. Touch the can and a metal part of the nozzle withyour hand before touching the nozzle to the can.It is also a good idea to touch the vehicle with your hand before picking upthe cans. How many times have you seen or felt that charge as you touch thedoor handle? More importantly clipping the ground lead to the exhaust stackor metal parts of your airframe doesn't bond the tank mounted up there inthe wood wing. Some wooden aircraft have bonding or grounding plugsinstalled near the tank and braided copper ribbons fitted into the nonconductive tank. Our PT 19 Cornell (wood wing) has this arrangement. Justout of curiosity I checked continuity between the tank and engine and foundit to be in effect an open. Therefore the bonding socket.John-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
It is called static electricity. The same thing you get from walking acrossthe carpet.All of the gas stations around here have signs stating that you are to sentthe cans on the ground before filling. As an added precaution I put onehand on a metal part of the pump and touch each can I am going to fill.Just remember one in a million isn't much unless you are the one.Kenav8or(at)citizen.infi.netkring(at)mountainviewdogs.comkring(at)irisweb.net-----Original Message-----
It is called static electricity. The same thing you get from walking acrossthe carpet.All of the gas stations around here have signs stating that you are to sentthe cans on the ground before filling. As an added precaution I put onehand on a metal part of the pump and touch each can I am going to fill.Just remember one in a million isn't much unless you are the one.Kenav8or(at)citizen.infi.netkring(at)mountainviewdogs.comkring(at)irisweb.net-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Just this weekend we had a guy catch fire here in Phoenix while filling a gas can.a string of these going on lately!DJ> >> Just to add another incident/accident to the knowledge base: a couple of days> ago a man was burned just south of here while filling 7 portable containers > in the back of his truck, on his way to the farm. While filling the last > container a flash ignited the vapors and off she went. There was no > mention of the type of container, but my suspicion is that it was plastic > jugs. We have had some cooler, drier weather with attendant low humidity, > and static electricity is suspected. The article did say that the risk > might have been reduced if the man had placed the containers down on the > concrete before refueling. Fortunately, we have a world-class burn > center here (U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research) so the victim is > in great hands.>> This subject has come up before in connection with the use of auto gas > and portable containers, but some folks don't understand how a non- > conductive container (like plastic) could possibly cause a spark that > could ignite fuel vapors.>> Oscar Zuniga> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>-- DJ VeghThis email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by HalfPrice Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more informationon an anti-virus email solution, visit .________________________________________________________________________________
Just this weekend we had a guy catch fire here in Phoenix while filling a gas can.a string of these going on lately!DJ> >> Just to add another incident/accident to the knowledge base: a couple of days> ago a man was burned just south of here while filling 7 portable containers > in the back of his truck, on his way to the farm. While filling the last > container a flash ignited the vapors and off she went. There was no > mention of the type of container, but my suspicion is that it was plastic > jugs. We have had some cooler, drier weather with attendant low humidity, > and static electricity is suspected. The article did say that the risk > might have been reduced if the man had placed the containers down on the > concrete before refueling. Fortunately, we have a world-class burn > center here (U.S. Army Institute of Surgical Research) so the victim is > in great hands.>> This subject has come up before in connection with the use of auto gas > and portable containers, but some folks don't understand how a non- > conductive container (like plastic) could possibly cause a spark that > could ignite fuel vapors.>> Oscar Zuniga> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net>>-- DJ VeghThis email has been scanned for known viruses and made safe for viewing by HalfPrice Hosting, a leading email and web hosting provider. For more informationon an anti-virus email solution, visit .________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Gary writes->I will like to know what happened and/or how to prevent this from>happening.Static electricity builds up as the fuel flows through the hose. The charge builds up on the plastic surfaces of the gas can or the truck bed liner, then discharges across an air gap when there is a great enough charge built up. When the air is relatively damp or moist, the charge dissipates through the air more readily than when the air is dry (like in Phoenix, DJ!)Placing the gas cans on the ground gives the static a more ready path to ground, assuming that it's concrete, earth, metal, or something like that. Touching the truck and the metal pump handle with your hand also dissipates built-up charge through your body, which dissipates the charge better than the sharp electrical gap created by the fuel nozzle and the fuel can.>Once I read about it in one list some years ago, but was not shure if>it was true... is dificult to believe.I wouldn't think it would be a problem in more humid climates (like Belize, where the Fisherman lurks) but up here we get some pretty good static when it gets cool and dry. I take out my keys whenever I slide across the truck seat to get out, and let the spark jump the end of my key rather than my finger.>Is a first hand info you got?The San Antonio Express-News. The most reliable source on the planet ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Gary writes->I will like to know what happened and/or how to prevent this from>happening.Static electricity builds up as the fuel flows through the hose. The charge builds up on the plastic surfaces of the gas can or the truck bed liner, then discharges across an air gap when there is a great enough charge built up. When the air is relatively damp or moist, the charge dissipates through the air more readily than when the air is dry (like in Phoenix, DJ!)Placing the gas cans on the ground gives the static a more ready path to ground, assuming that it's concrete, earth, metal, or something like that. Touching the truck and the metal pump handle with your hand also dissipates built-up charge through your body, which dissipates the charge better than the sharp electrical gap created by the fuel nozzle and the fuel can.>Once I read about it in one list some years ago, but was not shure if>it was true... is dificult to believe.I wouldn't think it would be a problem in more humid climates (like Belize, where the Fisherman lurks) but up here we get some pretty good static when it gets cool and dry. I take out my keys whenever I slide across the truck seat to get out, and let the spark jump the end of my key rather than my finger.>Is a first hand info you got?The San Antonio Express-News. The most reliable source on the planet ;o)Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: Dmott9(at)aol.com
The problem with static charges causing a fire has been dealt with by theArmy many years ago. They have to solider filling up the truck connect aground strap (conductive cable to dissipate static) from the truck toearth-n-ground or the can if a can is being used before contact is made. Atleast they did when I was in the service. Although less likely a static charge can be generated in humid climatesdepending the type of clothing and shoes the person is wearing. I don't know why the oil industry has not required something like that aground strap at a gas station. Probably because of the cost.________________________________________________________________________________
The problem with static charges causing a fire has been dealt with by theArmy many years ago. They have to solider filling up the truck connect aground strap (conductive cable to dissipate static) from the truck toearth-n-ground or the can if a can is being used before contact is made. Atleast they did when I was in the service. Although less likely a static charge can be generated in humid climatesdepending the type of clothing and shoes the person is wearing. I don't know why the oil industry has not required something like that aground strap at a gas station. Probably because of the cost.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom"
I believe the hose and nozzle is grounded and it grounds the car when slidinto the opening.Ted BrousseauI knew this humid place was good for somethingNaples, FL----- Original Message -----
I believe the hose and nozzle is grounded and it grounds the car when slidinto the opening.Ted BrousseauI knew this humid place was good for somethingNaples, FL----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
If you run on the premise that you ground it (your car, etc.) as the nozzleslips into the opening, isn't there a chance of a spark jumping the gap asthe nozzle gets close? Is that not why we ground the airplane first AWAYfrom the gas tank and vent opeings so if it does want to spark it can do soin a benign place?The threat is real. Even with an automobile.Chris-----Original Message-----
If you run on the premise that you ground it (your car, etc.) as the nozzleslips into the opening, isn't there a chance of a spark jumping the gap asthe nozzle gets close? Is that not why we ground the airplane first AWAYfrom the gas tank and vent opeings so if it does want to spark it can do soin a benign place?The threat is real. Even with an automobile.Chris-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: kirk
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: "Caroll & Mara Holmstrom"
Having served in the Marine Corps for six years, I agree with thisstatement. I was assigned to an air support section in charge of generatorsthat kept a surface to air missile site online. I was in charge of thegenerator section in particular, and we always used a ground strapattachment before filling any piece of equipment. It was diesel, and notlikely to to ignite from a static discharge, but used for safety none theless. My two cents.....Doug BlackburnDoug/Elizabeth BlackburnYucaipa CaliforniaInland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com----- Original Message -----
Having served in the Marine Corps for six years, I agree with thisstatement. I was assigned to an air support section in charge of generatorsthat kept a surface to air missile site online. I was in charge of thegenerator section in particular, and we always used a ground strapattachment before filling any piece of equipment. It was diesel, and notlikely to to ignite from a static discharge, but used for safety none theless. My two cents.....Doug BlackburnDoug/Elizabeth BlackburnYucaipa CaliforniaInland Slope Rebels, Riverside Ca. http://inlandsloperebels.com----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: refueling from cans
Original Posted By: clif