Original Posted By: "Lauritz Larsen"
For all of you flying with skinny wheels,,,,,,used to fly my Fisher 404 (with standardsmall wheels) with soft tires cause I didn't have brakes. One day onlanding, I spun the tire on the tube and got a flat cause it tore the stem.My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tires spinningon tubes? or flats? This came to mind once when I landed on the pavement andheard a chirp. (In my high hour plane of 3.5hours on the tach) Trying to forseeproblems before they come.What pressure are you guys running in the skinny tires??thankswaltNX140DL(north N.J.)PS spring is right around the corner________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Re: Tire PressureI'm using 35 psi in my 3.25x21 'skinny wheels'.Having a heat wave in Florida; up to 79 degrees today.Thunderstorms on the way.Lou Larsen----- Original Message -----
Re: Tire PressureI'm using 35 psi in my 3.25x21 'skinny wheels'.Having a heat wave in Florida; up to 79 degrees today.Thunderstorms on the way.Lou Larsen----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: Les Schubert
Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builder
Original Posted By: "Ken Anderson"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builderLes,#1. If I were to build the 3 piece wing I would allow for some dihedral, not for stability but to keep the wing from looking a B-52 sitting on the ramp, you know droopy wings.#2 Balances on this machine are way ahead of it's time, just needless weight.#3 A trim tab would be in my opinion a worth while device to have, Mike Cuy developed a trim system that works good.Dan________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builderLes,#1. If I were to build the 3 piece wing I would allow for some dihedral, not for stability but to keep the wing from looking a B-52 sitting on the ramp, you know droopy wings.#2 Balances on this machine are way ahead of it's time, just needless weight.#3 A trim tab would be in my opinion a worth while device to have, Mike Cuy developed a trim system that works good.Dan________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
----- Original Message ----- One day on landing, I spun the tire on thetube and got a flat cause it tore the stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? >>>When I was involved in drag racing years ago that was a problem with thewheels turning in the slicks. One solution was to screw the tire to the rim.Didn't want to put holes in the wheels. Used rubber (contact) cement on therim and tire bead. Worked fine. Rubber cement has dosen't have great tenselstrength but works great in shear.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message ----- One day on landing, I spun the tire on thetube and got a flat cause it tore the stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? >>>When I was involved in drag racing years ago that was a problem with thewheels turning in the slicks. One solution was to screw the tire to the rim.Didn't want to put holes in the wheels. Used rubber (contact) cement on therim and tire bead. Worked fine. Rubber cement has dosen't have great tenselstrength but works great in shear.Ken________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "Ken Anderson"
Ken,Is this something you can do with the wheels/tires together? Or do you haveto do a teardown? Would be nice if one could just drizzle a bead betweenrubber and rim.walt----- Original Message -----
Ken,Is this something you can do with the wheels/tires together? Or do you haveto do a teardown? Would be nice if one could just drizzle a bead betweenrubber and rim.walt----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builder
Original Posted By: "Les Schubert"
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builder
Original Posted By: Les Schubert
Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builder
Original Posted By: Les Schubert
Re: Pietenpol-List: questions by a new piet builder
Original Posted By: "Les Schubert"
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
You just need to seperate the bead from the rim but do not need to dismountthe tire from the rim. Put the rubber cement on both surface when dryinflate tire to seat the bead. DoneKen----- Original Message -----
You just need to seperate the bead from the rim but do not need to dismountthe tire from the rim. Put the rubber cement on both surface when dryinflate tire to seat the bead. DoneKen----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheelsWalt Evans, In one of your message some time ago you mentioned that you moved you wing back 3 inches to get the weight and balance right. I just ran a quick wt and bal and have the same problem. If you can remember, at what percent of the wing cord did you end up with and how does it fly? In Iowa with no snow Ken Conrad________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheelsWalt Evans, In one of your message some time ago you mentioned that you moved you wing back 3 inches to get the weight and balance right. I just ran a quick wt and bal and have the same problem. If you can remember, at what percent of the wing cord did you end up with and how does it fly? In Iowa with no snow Ken Conrad________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By:
Ken,Was just snoozing on the couch, and a little groggy. But here goes,,,myweight and bal came out about 2 3/4" too far aft. Moved the wing back, andjust got it in. got thru DAR inspection and now flying with about 3.5 hourson it. I had moved the engine mount about 1 3/4" fwd with an A-65, and Iweigh 210/220#,,,,,,,,,With almost full nose tank, flies hands off/ a littlefwd stick with half nose tank. remind me tomorrow and I'll send you thefinal results in EXCEL on what the #'s were.walt----- Original Message -----
Ken,Was just snoozing on the couch, and a little groggy. But here goes,,,myweight and bal came out about 2 3/4" too far aft. Moved the wing back, andjust got it in. got thru DAR inspection and now flying with about 3.5 hourson it. I had moved the engine mount about 1 3/4" fwd with an A-65, and Iweigh 210/220#,,,,,,,,,With almost full nose tank, flies hands off/ a littlefwd stick with half nose tank. remind me tomorrow and I'll send you thefinal results in EXCEL on what the #'s were.walt----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
RE: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "Carl Loar"
Walt,The eyeball engineer in me says you should not have the spun tire problemwith large rims, here is my thinking.A 21" rim has 2 beads of 65.97" so over 130" of friction between rubber andrim. The distance between the rim and pavement in my 21" tires is 5", so you havea 5" lever trying to rotate the tire on the rim and 130" of friction tryingto stop the rotation.A 4" Cub tire has 2 beads 12.56" so less than 26" of friction and the leveris about 8" long.Seems to me the spun tire problem would be much less with the large rimswith small tires on them.Skip, Still turning my aluminum hubs.-----Original Message-----> For all of you flying with skinny wheels,,,,,,used to fly my Fisher 404(with standard small wheels) with soft tires cause I didn't have brakes.One day on landing, I spun the tire on the tube and got a flat cause it torethe stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? This came to mind once when I landed on thepavement and heard a chirp. >walt________________________________________________________________________________
Walt,The eyeball engineer in me says you should not have the spun tire problemwith large rims, here is my thinking.A 21" rim has 2 beads of 65.97" so over 130" of friction between rubber andrim. The distance between the rim and pavement in my 21" tires is 5", so you havea 5" lever trying to rotate the tire on the rim and 130" of friction tryingto stop the rotation.A 4" Cub tire has 2 beads 12.56" so less than 26" of friction and the leveris about 8" long.Seems to me the spun tire problem would be much less with the large rimswith small tires on them.Skip, Still turning my aluminum hubs.-----Original Message-----> For all of you flying with skinny wheels,,,,,,used to fly my Fisher 404(with standard small wheels) with soft tires cause I didn't have brakes.One day on landing, I spun the tire on the tube and got a flat cause it torethe stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? This came to mind once when I landed on thepavement and heard a chirp. >walt________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Ken,Here is the W&B for the worst case . I had made four of these with/withoutpass, and fuel /no fuel in either tank. But the problem in Piets are forrear CG, so that's what I had to watch. This is for only pilot with only 4gals in the nose tank.Not noted on the prog sheet is that with everything level, the leading edgeis 49" from datum ( prop hub snout.)Also that block on the right seemed to have a mind of it's own with the tankdata, don't know if that's accurate.It was the nose tank that saved me CG wise.Just remember, you don't really move the wing back,,,you move the fuselageforward.waltps assuming you have excel, you should be able to plug in your own numbersto this if you want.----- Original Message -----
Ken,Here is the W&B for the worst case . I had made four of these with/withoutpass, and fuel /no fuel in either tank. But the problem in Piets are forrear CG, so that's what I had to watch. This is for only pilot with only 4gals in the nose tank.Not noted on the prog sheet is that with everything level, the leading edgeis 49" from datum ( prop hub snout.)Also that block on the right seemed to have a mind of it's own with the tankdata, don't know if that's accurate.It was the nose tank that saved me CG wise.Just remember, you don't really move the wing back,,,you move the fuselageforward.waltps assuming you have excel, you should be able to plug in your own numbersto this if you want.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: RE: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Ahhh, an engineering question. :)Skip, I tip my hat to your eyeball engineering skills and let merespectively add additional information to this topic (I don't mean to soundlike a smart ass, I just have an engineering degree sitting on a shelfcollecting dust and like to think I didn't waste my money, so forgive meplease).The point at which the tire will spin on a rim at touchdown is when thefriction between the tire and rim is less than the force required toaccelerate just the rim AND the acceleration rate of the tire and rim due tothe friction between the tire and ground is greater than the previouslystated rate. What I mean to say is that if the tire sticks to the groundreally well and tries to spin the wheel really fast at touchdown AND thewheel rim is heavy enough and resists the high acceleration it will breakfree of the tire if the friction between the two isn't great enough. (I'mgoing to stop now before I get into leverage and moment of inertia, whew.)This is not a problem in grass because there isn't enough friction betweenthe tire and ground. Also, this not a problem on any surface with our bigspoke wheels because they have a lot of rim/tire friction area (due to theincreased diameter) and the rims are relatively light. Also, the skinnierthe wheel the better since rim/tire friction area is the same while thetire/ground friction area is decreased. But as stated earlier, make sureyou have adequate tire pressure to keep an decent amount of friction betweenthe tire and rim.Finally, think about this... a motorcycle rider is zipping down the highwayat 60mph and has to stop immediately. He pulls the brakes and stops as fastas he can. Do the tires spin on the rims?Robert HainesDu Quoin, Illinois-----Original Message-----Walt,The eyeball engineer in me says you should not have the spun tire problemwith large rims, here is my thinking.A 21" rim has 2 beads of 65.97" so over 130" of friction between rubber andrim.The distance between the rim and pavement in my 21" tires is 5", so you havea 5" lever trying to rotate the tire on the rim and 130" of friction tryingto stop the rotation.A 4" Cub tire has 2 beads 12.56" so less than 26" of friction and the leveris about 8" long.Seems to me the spun tire problem would be much less with the large rimswith small tires on them.Skip, Still turning my aluminum hubs.> For all of you flying with skinny wheels,,,,,,used to fly my Fisher 404(with standard small wheels) with soft tires cause I didn't have brakes.One day on landing, I spun the tire on the tube and got a flat cause it torethe stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? This came to mind once when I landed on thepavement and heard a chirp.>walt________________________________________________________________________________
Ahhh, an engineering question. :)Skip, I tip my hat to your eyeball engineering skills and let merespectively add additional information to this topic (I don't mean to soundlike a smart ass, I just have an engineering degree sitting on a shelfcollecting dust and like to think I didn't waste my money, so forgive meplease).The point at which the tire will spin on a rim at touchdown is when thefriction between the tire and rim is less than the force required toaccelerate just the rim AND the acceleration rate of the tire and rim due tothe friction between the tire and ground is greater than the previouslystated rate. What I mean to say is that if the tire sticks to the groundreally well and tries to spin the wheel really fast at touchdown AND thewheel rim is heavy enough and resists the high acceleration it will breakfree of the tire if the friction between the two isn't great enough. (I'mgoing to stop now before I get into leverage and moment of inertia, whew.)This is not a problem in grass because there isn't enough friction betweenthe tire and ground. Also, this not a problem on any surface with our bigspoke wheels because they have a lot of rim/tire friction area (due to theincreased diameter) and the rims are relatively light. Also, the skinnierthe wheel the better since rim/tire friction area is the same while thetire/ground friction area is decreased. But as stated earlier, make sureyou have adequate tire pressure to keep an decent amount of friction betweenthe tire and rim.Finally, think about this... a motorcycle rider is zipping down the highwayat 60mph and has to stop immediately. He pulls the brakes and stops as fastas he can. Do the tires spin on the rims?Robert HainesDu Quoin, Illinois-----Original Message-----Walt,The eyeball engineer in me says you should not have the spun tire problemwith large rims, here is my thinking.A 21" rim has 2 beads of 65.97" so over 130" of friction between rubber andrim.The distance between the rim and pavement in my 21" tires is 5", so you havea 5" lever trying to rotate the tire on the rim and 130" of friction tryingto stop the rotation.A 4" Cub tire has 2 beads 12.56" so less than 26" of friction and the leveris about 8" long.Seems to me the spun tire problem would be much less with the large rimswith small tires on them.Skip, Still turning my aluminum hubs.> For all of you flying with skinny wheels,,,,,,used to fly my Fisher 404(with standard small wheels) with soft tires cause I didn't have brakes.One day on landing, I spun the tire on the tube and got a flat cause it torethe stem.> My question is,,,has anyone with skinny wheels had problem with tiresspinning on tubes? or flats? This came to mind once when I landed on thepavement and heard a chirp.>walt________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: RE: question for the guys with skinny wheels
Original Posted By: del magsam
Robert,Thanks, way more than I wanted to know, cool!Skip-----Original Message-----Ahhh, an engineering question.
let merespectively add additional information to this topic Robert________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:10:43 -0800 (PST)
Robert,Thanks, way more than I wanted to know, cool!Skip-----Original Message-----Ahhh, an engineering question.
let merespectively add additional information to this topic Robert________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 09:10:43 -0800 (PST)[CorvAIRCRAFT] Alamo City Corvair College
Original Posted By: Les Schubert
Subject: [CorvAIRCRAFT] Alamo City Corvair College--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsTJust a reminder, the Alamo City Corvair College is coming up fast!William Wynne will be in attendance at the event hosted by Oscar Zuniga,Jan. 18, 2003, at San Geronimo Airpark (San Antonio), TX. 8T8 (identifier)Click for more info:http://www.corvaircraft.com/Please pass this along to any other e-mail lists you might belong to...KR, Pietenpol, etc.Even car guys might be interested, as the local Corsa chapter will be involved!Thanks!Pat--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsTJust a reminder, the Alamo City Corvair College is coming up fast!William Wynne will be in attendance at the event hosted by Oscar Zuniga,Jan. 18, 2003, at San Geronimo Airpark (San Antonio), TX. 8T8 (identifier)Click for more info:http://www.corvaircraft.com/Please pass this along to any other e-mail lists you might belong to...KR, Pietenpol, etc.Even car guys might be interested, as the local Corsa chapter will be involved!Thanks!Pat ADVERTISEMENTTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:corvaircraft-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsT--________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:54:16 -0700
Subject: [CorvAIRCRAFT] Alamo City Corvair College--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsTJust a reminder, the Alamo City Corvair College is coming up fast!William Wynne will be in attendance at the event hosted by Oscar Zuniga,Jan. 18, 2003, at San Geronimo Airpark (San Antonio), TX. 8T8 (identifier)Click for more info:http://www.corvaircraft.com/Please pass this along to any other e-mail lists you might belong to...KR, Pietenpol, etc.Even car guys might be interested, as the local Corsa chapter will be involved!Thanks!Pat--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsTJust a reminder, the Alamo City Corvair College is coming up fast!William Wynne will be in attendance at the event hosted by Oscar Zuniga,Jan. 18, 2003, at San Geronimo Airpark (San Antonio), TX. 8T8 (identifier)Click for more info:http://www.corvaircraft.com/Please pass this along to any other e-mail lists you might belong to...KR, Pietenpol, etc.Even car guys might be interested, as the local Corsa chapter will be involved!Thanks!Pat ADVERTISEMENTTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:corvaircraft-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com--lhJVRaA3EDtVLwHFmqs9kvatzmBy7aZdBqoVjsT--________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 10:54:16 -0700