Original Posted By: "Hubbard, Eugene"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracingI once read an article about the different terminology used in aircraft parts.The one I remember most is Jury Struts, the name came from the Courts where in front of a Judge and Jury people fates were decided. In short jury struts were named so because they decided whether you live or died.Case in point involved a friend of mine who left his jury struts off of his Challenger 2 aircraft, said it made refueling easier. His right wing folded after about 125 hours flight time. Point is do not delete anything from the plans, they have a purpose. And if the Brits jump off a cliff I suggest you don't follow.Dan________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
RE: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: ZigoDan(at)aol.com [mailto:ZigoDan(at)aol.com]
Dan, check the plans. The jury struts aren't there. We've had a lot ofdiscussion on why they're not there, and why BHP got away with it, and whywe need them, but it's not as simple as blindly following the plans. BTW,is the horizontal stab on your plane held on with #7 wood screws, as theplans say?Gene-----Original Message-----
Dan, check the plans. The jury struts aren't there. We've had a lot ofdiscussion on why they're not there, and why BHP got away with it, and whywe need them, but it's not as simple as blindly following the plans. BTW,is the horizontal stab on your plane held on with #7 wood screws, as theplans say?Gene-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By:
Gene,Most UK Piets have been built to a slightly modified drawing by Jim Willsand approved by our PFA who oversee such things. The main differencesinclude:1. A three piece wing with (optional) auto-aileron connect facility.2. Built-up spars and 'D' box leading edge of 1/16" ply.3. Heavier than original lift struts.As a consequence, the max weight has been increased from the original 1050lbto 1200lb. Stress calculations made at the time suggested that jury strutswere not necessary and this is how I first flew G-BUCO back in '92. However,it soon became apparent that at certain angles of attack and rpm settingsthe front struts would start vibrating. I first experienced this over TheSolent, a stretch of water that separates England from The Isle of Wight.This happened on at least 2 of the 5 UK Piets finished at the time and wasnot good for the nerves! Fixes included setting the strut at an angle to theslipstream but the PFA decided on a mandatory modification of adding jurystruts to the front only.I hope this clears things up.Good luck with your Piet.Alan James----- Original Message -----
Gene,Most UK Piets have been built to a slightly modified drawing by Jim Willsand approved by our PFA who oversee such things. The main differencesinclude:1. A three piece wing with (optional) auto-aileron connect facility.2. Built-up spars and 'D' box leading edge of 1/16" ply.3. Heavier than original lift struts.As a consequence, the max weight has been increased from the original 1050lbto 1200lb. Stress calculations made at the time suggested that jury strutswere not necessary and this is how I first flew G-BUCO back in '92. However,it soon became apparent that at certain angles of attack and rpm settingsthe front struts would start vibrating. I first experienced this over TheSolent, a stretch of water that separates England from The Isle of Wight.This happened on at least 2 of the 5 UK Piets finished at the time and wasnot good for the nerves! Fixes included setting the strut at an angle to theslipstream but the PFA decided on a mandatory modification of adding jurystruts to the front only.I hope this clears things up.Good luck with your Piet.Alan James----- Original Message -----
Re: aileron connections; was Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: "Alan James"
Alan,Please tell us more about that auto-aileron connect facility. Is that aquick connect?Ted----- Original Message -----
Alan,Please tell us more about that auto-aileron connect facility. Is that aquick connect?Ted----- Original Message -----
> Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: clif
Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: clif
Re: aileron connections; was Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: "Ted Brousseau"
Hi Ted,Yes, its a quick connect. As you offer the wing up to the centre section, 2levers come face to face to complete a control loop to the aileron. Apartfrom making it a little quicker to assemble, I believe it was also intendedto get around the need for duplicate control inspections as required by thePFA. Jim also came up with some quick-release bracing cables (between thelift struts). Personally, I would not bother with this mod unless you intendassembling and dis-assembling the machine every other weekend. After all,its only three cables that need joining -one on each side of the ailerontorque/control arm and a break in the balance cable in the centre section.RegardsAlan----- Original Message -----
Hi Ted,Yes, its a quick connect. As you offer the wing up to the centre section, 2levers come face to face to complete a control loop to the aileron. Apartfrom making it a little quicker to assemble, I believe it was also intendedto get around the need for duplicate control inspections as required by thePFA. Jim also came up with some quick-release bracing cables (between thelift struts). Personally, I would not bother with this mod unless you intendassembling and dis-assembling the machine every other weekend. After all,its only three cables that need joining -one on each side of the ailerontorque/control arm and a break in the balance cable in the centre section.RegardsAlan----- Original Message -----
> > Re: Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: aileron connections; was Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: "Les Schubert"
Hi LesI have no pictures but I'll get some taken over the weekend and e-mail themdirect. I have not checked but it might be worth looking around the UK Pietsite for some info & pics. www.aircamper.co.ukRegardsAlan James----- Original Message -----
Hi LesI have no pictures but I'll get some taken over the weekend and e-mail themdirect. I have not checked but it might be worth looking around the UK Pietsite for some info & pics. www.aircamper.co.ukRegardsAlan James----- Original Message -----
Re: aileron connections; was Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: "Les Schubert"
Les,I have just taken a couple of shots of the centre section showing theaileron connect. The wing has an identical bracket & lever (inverted) whichcouples up to it when the wing is offered up. It seems to be a commonarrangement, I can remember seeing an identical system on a USA low winghomebuilt some years ago and I think Jim must have copied it. The end wingrib and centre section ribs are beefed up to take the load (filled withhardwood and faced each side with ply) and a full width compression spar isfitted between the c/s ribs behind the lever mounting brackets. The systemmakes assembly very straightforward but there is a downside:1. Additional complexity and weight. 2. Extra friction in the controls. 3.The aileron horns have to be altered in length to match the length of theconnecting arms (10" total) otherwise you have problems with the geometryand varying cable tension. 4. This means you loose any differential movementin the ailerons.Don't get me wrong, it works ok when everything is set up and I have had nobother with it since installation. It's just not worth the effort if you aredis-assembling only a couple of times a year.Roll on springAlan----- Original Message -----
Les,I have just taken a couple of shots of the centre section showing theaileron connect. The wing has an identical bracket & lever (inverted) whichcouples up to it when the wing is offered up. It seems to be a commonarrangement, I can remember seeing an identical system on a USA low winghomebuilt some years ago and I think Jim must have copied it. The end wingrib and centre section ribs are beefed up to take the load (filled withhardwood and faced each side with ply) and a full width compression spar isfitted between the c/s ribs behind the lever mounting brackets. The systemmakes assembly very straightforward but there is a downside:1. Additional complexity and weight. 2. Extra friction in the controls. 3.The aileron horns have to be altered in length to match the length of theconnecting arms (10" total) otherwise you have problems with the geometryand varying cable tension. 4. This means you loose any differential movementin the ailerons.Don't get me wrong, it works ok when everything is set up and I have had nobother with it since installation. It's just not worth the effort if you aredis-assembling only a couple of times a year.Roll on springAlan----- Original Message -----
Re: aileron connections; was Pietenpol-List: strut bracing
Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Les,The type of aileron connection Alan is talking about has been used on gliders/sailplanes where the wings are frequently removed for transportby trailer. It eliminates the need to disconnect and reconnect the aileroncontrol each time this is done---and eliminates a lot of possibilities for error.I seem to recall seeing this arrangement on a Sonerai aircraft at Oshkoshmany years ago, but am not certain of the a/c type anymore. It is usefulonly with folding wings or wings that are to be removed and reattachedfrequently. Otherwise, it isn't worthwhile for the reasons Alan has given.(I've removed the wings of my Pietenpol only twice in 32 years!)Cheers,Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________
Les,The type of aileron connection Alan is talking about has been used on gliders/sailplanes where the wings are frequently removed for transportby trailer. It eliminates the need to disconnect and reconnect the aileroncontrol each time this is done---and eliminates a lot of possibilities for error.I seem to recall seeing this arrangement on a Sonerai aircraft at Oshkoshmany years ago, but am not certain of the a/c type anymore. It is usefulonly with folding wings or wings that are to be removed and reattachedfrequently. Otherwise, it isn't worthwhile for the reasons Alan has given.(I've removed the wings of my Pietenpol only twice in 32 years!)Cheers,Graham (Pietenpol CF-AUN) ________________________________________________________________________________