Original Posted By: "Hubbard, Eugene"
I called and was given my number N2RN today but FAA rep said they couldn't issueit as NX. I remember past discussion on this. Is this modified at the inspection?Dick N.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: N #
RE: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: Richard Navratril [mailto:horzpool(at)goldengate.net]
My understanding is that it is issued as N2RN, but that you are allowed todisplay it as NX2RN and leave off the "Experimental" lettering if it lookslike a plane (same external configuration) that flew before 1960. But Ihaven't been through the drill yet so I don't know first-hand.Gene-----Original Message-----
My understanding is that it is issued as N2RN, but that you are allowed todisplay it as NX2RN and leave off the "Experimental" lettering if it lookslike a plane (same external configuration) that flew before 1960. But Ihaven't been through the drill yet so I don't know first-hand.Gene-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dick,The way the regulations read in Part 45 Markings:Sec. 45.22Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or aU.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has beenissued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibitionaircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same externalconfiguration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operatedwithout displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through45.33 if:(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 incheshigh on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of theRoman capital letter "N" followed by:(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental)followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N" anywhere onthe aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph(b)(1) of this section.(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of thissection--(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless ittemporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through45.33;(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or[(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 133, 135, or 137 of thischapter.](d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for aperson to mark it in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33, hemay apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.Amdt. 45-22, Eff. 4/27/2001The official N number is still without the X in it. That is very true.What your registration card will say is N2RN but the tail CAN say NX2RN.Also note from the above FAR that your ship "may be operated withoutdisplaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33" ifyou cmply with 45.22(b), which says to use the X after the N.You want to do this because part 45.23 (which you do not need to follow, seelast sentence) says:Sec. 45.23Display of marks; general.(a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marksconsisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United Statesregistration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft. Eachsuffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman capitalletter.(b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and theregistration number are displayed on limited or restricted category aircraftor experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shallalso display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, inletters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the words"limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional airworthiness," asthe case may be.Amdt. 45-9, Eff. 9/14/77In other words, using the X on the rudder DELETES the need to put the bigugly EXPERIMENTAL sticker "near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit".Chris BobkaEAA Technical CounselorFAA A&P with Inspection Authorization-----Original Message-----
Dick,The way the regulations read in Part 45 Markings:Sec. 45.22Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or aU.S.-registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has beenissued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibitionaircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same externalconfiguration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operatedwithout displaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through45.33 if:(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 incheshigh on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of theRoman capital letter "N" followed by:(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; or(ii) The symbol appropriate to the airworthiness certificate of the aircraft("C", standard; "R", restricted; "L", limited; or "X", experimental)followed by the U.S. registration number of the aircraft; and(2) It displays no other mark that begins with the letter "N" anywhere onthe aircraft, unless it is the same mark that is displayed under paragraph(b)(1) of this section.(c) No person may operate an aircraft under paragraph (a) or (b) of thissection--(1) In an ADIZ or DEWIZ described in Part 99 of this chapter unless ittemporarily bears marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through45.33;(2) In a foreign country unless that country consents to that operation; or[(3) In any operation conducted under Part 121, 133, 135, or 137 of thischapter.](d) If, due to the configuration of an aircraft, it is impossible for aperson to mark it in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33, hemay apply to the Administrator for a different marking procedure.Amdt. 45-22, Eff. 4/27/2001The official N number is still without the X in it. That is very true.What your registration card will say is N2RN but the tail CAN say NX2RN.Also note from the above FAR that your ship "may be operated withoutdisplaying marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33" ifyou cmply with 45.22(b), which says to use the X after the N.You want to do this because part 45.23 (which you do not need to follow, seelast sentence) says:Sec. 45.23Display of marks; general.(a) Each operator of an aircraft shall display on that aircraft marksconsisting of the Roman capital letter "N" (denoting United Statesregistration) followed by the registration number of the aircraft. Eachsuffix letter used in the marks displayed must also be a Roman capitalletter.(b) When marks that include only the Roman capital letter "N" and theregistration number are displayed on limited or restricted category aircraftor experimental or provisionally certificated aircraft, the operator shallalso display on that aircraft near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit, inletters not less than 2 inches nor more than 6 inches in height, the words"limited," "restricted," "experimental," or "provisional airworthiness," asthe case may be.Amdt. 45-9, Eff. 9/14/77In other words, using the X on the rudder DELETES the need to put the bigugly EXPERIMENTAL sticker "near each entrance to the cabin or cockpit".Chris BobkaEAA Technical CounselorFAA A&P with Inspection Authorization-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That is my understanding as well. When I reserved my number (NX899JP), theFAA indicated that they only recognize it as N899JP. I'm expecting a battlewith the inspector over this, but by the time he sees it, NX will be paintedon.Jack -----Original Message-----
That is my understanding as well. When I reserved my number (NX899JP), theFAA indicated that they only recognize it as N899JP. I'm expecting a battlewith the inspector over this, but by the time he sees it, NX will be paintedon.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: "Cy Galley"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N #If I may inject a personal experience, my DAR was not familiar with the NX reg and I tried to explain the regs etc ala Mike Cuy. This was done in conversation prior to his official inspection. When he came it was all in order and he had all the paperwork typed and only needed a few documents from me and lots of signatures. Seemed like I signed my name more than when I went into the damned Army. I paid him his fee and he left with a smile on his face. Hope all of you hopeful builders can draw a DAR as good as the one I had. For those of you enjoying the good life in the lower half of the U S, if you want his name just e mail me. He has a new Glasair which takes him here to there real quick. He is good.Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: N #If I may inject a personal experience, my DAR was not familiar with the NX reg and I tried to explain the regs etc ala Mike Cuy. This was done in conversation prior to his official inspection. When he came it was all in order and he had all the paperwork typed and only needed a few documents from me and lots of signatures. Seemed like I signed my name more than when I went into the damned Army. I paid him his fee and he left with a smile on his face. Hope all of you hopeful builders can draw a DAR as good as the one I had. For those of you enjoying the good life in the lower half of the U S, if you want his name just e mail me. He has a new Glasair which takes him here to there real quick. He is good.Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratril"
You just put it on for appearance. The actual registration number doesn'thave the X.Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----
You just put it on for appearance. The actual registration number doesn'thave the X.Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: "The Huizenga's"
Re: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratril"
The number is not issued as an NX. To the FAA you will always be N2RN.However, you are allowed to paint it on your airplane as NX2RN if yourairplane has the exterior appearance of an airplane more than a certainnumber of years old (I think it is 30.) Of course the 'appearance' of anold airplane leaves a lot of room for interpetation. Piet's would qualifyin nearly everyone's eyes. The use of the NX tail number also exempts youfrom the large 'experimental' placard that is normally required. As this isa rather unusual rule and whatever official you are dealing with has mostlikely not seen it I would recommend you present a case citing theapplicable rules right off the bat rather than defending yourself after theofficial makes a determination.Best of luck to you,Kevin----- Original Message -----
The number is not issued as an NX. To the FAA you will always be N2RN.However, you are allowed to paint it on your airplane as NX2RN if yourairplane has the exterior appearance of an airplane more than a certainnumber of years old (I think it is 30.) Of course the 'appearance' of anold airplane leaves a lot of room for interpetation. Piet's would qualifyin nearly everyone's eyes. The use of the NX tail number also exempts youfrom the large 'experimental' placard that is normally required. As this isa rather unusual rule and whatever official you are dealing with has mostlikely not seen it I would recommend you present a case citing theapplicable rules right off the bat rather than defending yourself after theofficial makes a determination.Best of luck to you,Kevin----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: "Richard Navratril"
Dick.I went thru this in Oct/Nov for my inspection, and it's as simple asthis.....You are issued a N# which shows up on ALL your paperwork. The ONLYplace the "X" shows up is on the plane. Luckily I had a copy of the regcause my my DAR was unfamilure with it. He later checked it out and it wasfine, Actually he put the "X" on the airworthiness cert, by mistake, and Ihad to return it to him when he sent me the correct one.waltps the "X" is legal , but it's ONLY on the plane----- Original Message -----
Dick.I went thru this in Oct/Nov for my inspection, and it's as simple asthis.....You are issued a N# which shows up on ALL your paperwork. The ONLYplace the "X" shows up is on the plane. Luckily I had a copy of the regcause my my DAR was unfamilure with it. He later checked it out and it wasfine, Actually he put the "X" on the airworthiness cert, by mistake, and Ihad to return it to him when he sent me the correct one.waltps the "X" is legal , but it's ONLY on the plane----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: N #
Original Posted By: Kip & Beth Gardner