Original Posted By: "w b evans"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet riggingPieters,Our little Piet 41CC has 33:45 successful flying time. I have about 5 dual with my test-instructor pilot Mr Johnson. Yesterday he had me shooting landingson a sod crop duster strip in the cotton fields down south. 96 La degrees, midafternoon, lots of fresh cultivated acres below. CC was bouncing like Jr.'s rubber ball. Density altitude, 200 ft above sea level. When I flared, usually too high, CC seemed to be unaffected and kept on earthward. QUESTION?Given the 2 degree + incidence at the root in level flight according to the plans, what should be the washout reading at the outer rib? I'm feeling that the entire wing is stalling at the same time.Need some thoughts and chatter on this subjectCorky in La________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By:
Corky,My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and nota bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root ofthe wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightlybefore the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which arejust barely still in smooth air.sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. thevision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landingwithout power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log bookreflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on thatthrottle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point)you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and fliesforward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Pietbeautifully.Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taughtHarrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take timeto stop and talk to you.Corky , keep us posted!walt evansNX140DLin rainy NJ"that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"----- Original Message -----
Corky,My spin on washout ( and it's only my own addition of all I've heard and nota bit of documented truth) is that if the washout is correct , the root ofthe wing will stall first, and give you the indication of a stall, slightlybefore the tips stall. This gives you time to use the aerlerons, which arejust barely still in smooth air.sound like this has nothing to do with whats going on with your situation.Since I've gotten into wheel landings, even though they seem scarier. thevision is better, and more controllable. BUT I went to do a wheel landingwithout power, and bounced four times. It was very scarey. (My log bookreflects four landings) I found that if you keep your hand on thatthrottle thing, and just before the flare, (on both wheel and three point)you goose the throttle to maybe 1000 rpm, It stops the drop and fliesforward momentarily , just to set down. Seems to work on the Pietbeautifully.Thats a tip given to me by an instructor in the next airport who taughtHarrison Ford, for his tailwheel endosement. Great guy who will take timeto stop and talk to you.Corky , keep us posted!walt evansNX140DLin rainy NJ"that brown on my face isn't tan,,,it's rust"----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By: "w b evans"
Repeat after me! NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing withthe rudder unless you really want to spin!Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----
Repeat after me! NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing withthe rudder unless you really want to spin!Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By:
The purpose of washout is not to give YOU advance notice of a stall, but tomake the wingtips, i.e., the aileron area stall a little bit later to giveyou some additional aileron authority. You may not, and probably won't,notice the difference. I doubt that you would be able to tell that "theentire wing is stalling at the same time."----- Original Message -----
The purpose of washout is not to give YOU advance notice of a stall, but tomake the wingtips, i.e., the aileron area stall a little bit later to giveyou some additional aileron authority. You may not, and probably won't,notice the difference. I doubt that you would be able to tell that "theentire wing is stalling at the same time."----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet riggingI think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to 3 degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing. It inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard, providingyou keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds drag. Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing withthe rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say you are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall begins), at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and you give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle of attack.Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right. A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high, and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive. Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all in the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the 'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing. It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for landing was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground, then break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings (last fall)the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on the ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would not work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind landings.Chuck GantzerNX770CGplanning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs, with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first flight with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet riggingI think the 1" difference in the front and rear cabane struts, equates to 3 degrees positive incidence. No need for washout on a Hershey bar wing. It inherently stalls inboard first, then the stall progresses outboard, providingyou keep the ball in the middle. The drawback to washout, is it adds drag. Cy is correct : NEVER EVER use ailerons at stall. Pick up the low wing withthe rudder unless you really want to spin! Lets look at this-- Lets say you are very close to the 'Critical Angle of Attack' (AOA where a stall begins), at low airspeed (any airspeed actually). If the right wing is low, and you give left aileron, lowering the right aileron past the 'Critical Angle of Attack,' raising the left aileron and lowering the left wing tip's angle of attack.Result : the right wing tip will stall, and it will spin to the right. A little blip of power might be needed if your rate of decent is high, and your airspeed is low, to help level off the rate of decent just before touchdown. The propwash also helps the rudder to be more responsive. Corky, my hunch is that you are doing your round - out, and flair all in the same motion of the stick. This will bring the entire wing past the 'Critical Angle of Attack' all at once, and stall the entire wing. It's been awhile since I've flown my Piet, but my preference for landing was to cross the fence at about 50 mph, roundout at about 5 to 8 agl, then ride the ground effect for a couple of seconds very close to the ground, then break lift with very slight additional aft stick. My last 3 landings (last fall)the tail touched just a split second before the mains, and it stayed on the ground...no bounce, short roll out. This method, however, probably would not work well with a cross wind. Wheel landing is preferred for cross wind landings.Chuck GantzerNX770CGplanning on first engine run of the A65 this week. Do 3 or 4 ground runs, with cool down period, and inspections. If everything works out first flight with new engine next Sunday evening, weather permitting.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By:
You guys shouldn't overdo the admonition about using the ailerons in astall. The discussion is about the pre-stall area, and if you were notsupposed to use the ailerons then, they wouldn't have designed the airplaneso that the inboard end stalls first in order to give you aileron authorityup until the stall. What you NEVER NEVER want to do is be screwing aroundwith massive rudder imputs at the point of the stall or you WILL spin.Gene----- Original Message -----
You guys shouldn't overdo the admonition about using the ailerons in astall. The discussion is about the pre-stall area, and if you were notsupposed to use the ailerons then, they wouldn't have designed the airplaneso that the inboard end stalls first in order to give you aileron authorityup until the stall. What you NEVER NEVER want to do is be screwing aroundwith massive rudder imputs at the point of the stall or you WILL spin.Gene----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:45:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging80 mph?????????????? Maybe in my model T but never in a Piet________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 02 Jun 2003 12:45:33 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 8 Msgs -
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By:
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet rigging
Original Posted By:
Corky,Try this. Use an approach speed of around 65 MPH and hold it until you areabout 6" above the ground. Pull back smoothly on the stick and you willflare and should have a smooth landing. I found that trying anything lessthan 65 resulted in what you describe. You just seem to run out of elevatorand the thing just keeps sinking into the ground with thud.What I describe above is a dead stick landing. If you come in with slightpower you can slow the approach down a little. Cut the power at the 6"point and you have another great landing.I fly a Cessna 140A and this thing doesn't flare or float anything like itor any other plane I have flown.Try this and report back. You might experiment and find a better approachspeed for yours. They all seem a little different.Ted----- Original Message -----
Corky,Try this. Use an approach speed of around 65 MPH and hold it until you areabout 6" above the ground. Pull back smoothly on the stick and you willflare and should have a smooth landing. I found that trying anything lessthan 65 resulted in what you describe. You just seem to run out of elevatorand the thing just keeps sinking into the ground with thud.What I describe above is a dead stick landing. If you come in with slightpower you can slow the approach down a little. Cut the power at the 6"point and you have another great landing.I fly a Cessna 140A and this thing doesn't flare or float anything like itor any other plane I have flown.Try this and report back. You might experiment and find a better approachspeed for yours. They all seem a little different.Ted----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
Original Posted By: "D. Engelkenjohn"
Dennis, The H56 Lamina Springs are Die Springs as used in large stampingdies. If you have a tool and Die builder in your area he will be able toget them for you. Another source would be from a McMaster Carr Catalog.They sell everything you can think of for industry. There Web site iswww.mcmaster.comJim D.----- Original Message -----
Dennis, The H56 Lamina Springs are Die Springs as used in large stampingdies. If you have a tool and Die builder in your area he will be able toget them for you. Another source would be from a McMaster Carr Catalog.They sell everything you can think of for industry. There Web site iswww.mcmaster.comJim D.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Split Axle Springs
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy