Original Posted By: "LAWRENCE WILLIAMS"
I live and fly within a 30nm of Phoenix class B airspace so I am required tohave a xponder if I also have an "engine driven electrical system" accordingto the FAR's.I'll be running a Corvair engine so I must have a battery since the 'Vairuses coil/points ignition.Here's my thought..... what if I used a wind driven generator instead ofalternator driven by the engine. Does this exclude me from having tooperate a xponder??I really don't want to have to buy & install a transponder/altitude encoder.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
I spoke with a couple DAR's today.The concensus was if I was using a wind driven generator I would in fact beexempt from having to equip my aircraft with a xponder.They said that if you take FAR 91.215 as it is written, you only need axponder if you have an "engine driven electrical system".I have already done some initial tests on a wind generator. I have an RCengine starter which is essentially a permanent magnet DC motor. It hasball bearings for the commutator shaft and is designed for hi-torqueapplications.I spun the starter at 2200 RPM (hooked up to my hand drill) and recordedvoltage of 6vdc. I hooked the starter up to another small dc motor andapplied a load to this small motor. I then spun the "generator" at 2200 rpmand recorded as much as 8 amps.I then spun it at about 4,500 rpm (via pulley and belt of my drill press)and got approx 13 volts.Clearly this DC motor would work great as a DC generator driven by wind if Imount a small propeller to it. I estimate that I would need it to turnabout 5,000 RPM under load. It would be able to provide at least 5-7 ampscontinuous... This is within the duty range of the motor.Next I'm going to mount a 12x5 RC prop on it and do some "wind tunnel" testsas I hang it off the side of my truck at about 75mph. I'll record voltageand amps and see what it does.This should keep my battery topped off as I will only be drawing a coupleamps from the battery with the coil ignition and comm radio.This is the best way to get around Mode C xponder requirements if you livewithin class B!DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
I spoke with a couple DAR's today.The concensus was if I was using a wind driven generator I would in fact beexempt from having to equip my aircraft with a xponder.They said that if you take FAR 91.215 as it is written, you only need axponder if you have an "engine driven electrical system".I have already done some initial tests on a wind generator. I have an RCengine starter which is essentially a permanent magnet DC motor. It hasball bearings for the commutator shaft and is designed for hi-torqueapplications.I spun the starter at 2200 RPM (hooked up to my hand drill) and recordedvoltage of 6vdc. I hooked the starter up to another small dc motor andapplied a load to this small motor. I then spun the "generator" at 2200 rpmand recorded as much as 8 amps.I then spun it at about 4,500 rpm (via pulley and belt of my drill press)and got approx 13 volts.Clearly this DC motor would work great as a DC generator driven by wind if Imount a small propeller to it. I estimate that I would need it to turnabout 5,000 RPM under load. It would be able to provide at least 5-7 ampscontinuous... This is within the duty range of the motor.Next I'm going to mount a 12x5 RC prop on it and do some "wind tunnel" testsas I hang it off the side of my truck at about 75mph. I'll record voltageand amps and see what it does.This should keep my battery topped off as I will only be drawing a coupleamps from the battery with the coil ignition and comm radio.This is the best way to get around Mode C xponder requirements if you livewithin class B!DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
06/26/2003 07:46:23 AMDJ: Sounds real good keep us posted on your progress.John Duprey"DJ Vegh" (at)matronics.com on 06/25/2003 08:02:03 PMPlease respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.comcc:Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"I spoke with a couple DAR's today.The concensus was if I was using a wind driven generator I would in fact beexempt from having to equip my aircraft with a xponder.They said that if you take FAR 91.215 as it is written, you only need axponder if you have an "engine driven electrical system".I have already done some initial tests on a wind generator. I have an RCengine starter which is essentially a permanent magnet DC motor. It hasball bearings for the commutator shaft and is designed for hi-torqueapplications.I spun the starter at 2200 RPM (hooked up to my hand drill) and recordedvoltage of 6vdc. I hooked the starter up to another small dc motor andapplied a load to this small motor. I then spun the "generator" at 2200rpmand recorded as much as 8 amps.I then spun it at about 4,500 rpm (via pulley and belt of my drill press)and got approx 13 volts.Clearly this DC motor would work great as a DC generator driven by wind ifImount a small propeller to it. I estimate that I would need it to turnabout 5,000 RPM under load. It would be able to provide at least 5-7 ampscontinuous... This is within the duty range of the motor.Next I'm going to mount a 12x5 RC prop on it and do some "wind tunnel"testsas I hang it off the side of my truck at about 75mph. I'll record voltageand amps and see what it does.This should keep my battery topped off as I will only be drawing a coupleamps from the battery with the coil ignition and comm radio.This is the best way to get around Mode C xponder requirements if you livewithin class B!DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
06/26/2003 07:46:23 AMDJ: Sounds real good keep us posted on your progress.John Duprey"DJ Vegh" (at)matronics.com on 06/25/2003 08:02:03 PMPlease respond to pietenpol-list(at)matronics.comSent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.comcc:Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"I spoke with a couple DAR's today.The concensus was if I was using a wind driven generator I would in fact beexempt from having to equip my aircraft with a xponder.They said that if you take FAR 91.215 as it is written, you only need axponder if you have an "engine driven electrical system".I have already done some initial tests on a wind generator. I have an RCengine starter which is essentially a permanent magnet DC motor. It hasball bearings for the commutator shaft and is designed for hi-torqueapplications.I spun the starter at 2200 RPM (hooked up to my hand drill) and recordedvoltage of 6vdc. I hooked the starter up to another small dc motor andapplied a load to this small motor. I then spun the "generator" at 2200rpmand recorded as much as 8 amps.I then spun it at about 4,500 rpm (via pulley and belt of my drill press)and got approx 13 volts.Clearly this DC motor would work great as a DC generator driven by wind ifImount a small propeller to it. I estimate that I would need it to turnabout 5,000 RPM under load. It would be able to provide at least 5-7 ampscontinuous... This is within the duty range of the motor.Next I'm going to mount a 12x5 RC prop on it and do some "wind tunnel"testsas I hang it off the side of my truck at about 75mph. I'll record voltageand amps and see what it does.This should keep my battery topped off as I will only be drawing a coupleamps from the battery with the coil ignition and comm radio.This is the best way to get around Mode C xponder requirements if you livewithin class B!DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Re: Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Original Posted By: DJ Vegh
DJ,I remember when the rule on transponders came out and the "engine drivenelectrical system" was a hot item. Fortunately, you are correct that with awind driven generator, you DO NOT need a xpndr.The Ward-Aero generator kit that appeared on many taylorcrafts and cubs,etc, used a Dayton brand Permanent magnet DC motor part number 4Z145availbale at Grainger's. It is rated 1/20 hp @ 1750 rpm at 12 vdc and 1/9hp @ 4000 rpm at 24vdc. Full load amps is 5.1 and overall length is 6.44".It sold a year or two ago (my catalog is old) for $80.80 list.It is important that the unit does not over rpm as the prop will selfdestruct and can kill or injury anyone in its path. Also the bearings maynot be able to take the heat of over revving. At hi rpms, the unit may havea vibration problem as well.chris bobka----- Original Message -----
DJ,I remember when the rule on transponders came out and the "engine drivenelectrical system" was a hot item. Fortunately, you are correct that with awind driven generator, you DO NOT need a xpndr.The Ward-Aero generator kit that appeared on many taylorcrafts and cubs,etc, used a Dayton brand Permanent magnet DC motor part number 4Z145availbale at Grainger's. It is rated 1/20 hp @ 1750 rpm at 12 vdc and 1/9hp @ 4000 rpm at 24vdc. Full load amps is 5.1 and overall length is 6.44".It sold a year or two ago (my catalog is old) for $80.80 list.It is important that the unit does not over rpm as the prop will selfdestruct and can kill or injury anyone in its path. Also the bearings maynot be able to take the heat of over revving. At hi rpms, the unit may havea vibration problem as well.chris bobka----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood prop balancing
Original Posted By:
" Face" because it faces the relative wind. The "blade back" is the frontof the prop. Go figure.chris bobka----- Original Message -----
" Face" because it faces the relative wind. The "blade back" is the frontof the prop. Go figure.chris bobka----- Original Message -----
> > Pietenpol-List: FAA's definition of "Electrical System"
Original Posted By: Jim Ash