Original Posted By: oil can
I am at last getting to the point where I must start to consider how to put togethermy wings. The problem here is...How do I attach the wing ribs to the spars?Some books I read say nails. Does that mean nails only? So that some day thewing can be disassembled? Should I then varnish all before I put ittogether, so that the varnish doesn't act like a giant glue joint? Is it correct procedure to put the wing together by using glue to attach the ribsto the spars, then use varnish over the whole thing, and just consider itto be one solid unit that cannot be taken apart?OCBhttp://www.mailexcite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: Peter P Frantz
I am at last getting to the point where I must start to consider how to put togethermy wings. The problem here is...How do I attach the wing ribs to the spars?Some books I read say nails. Does that mean nails only? So that some day thewing can be disassembled? Should I then varnish all before I put ittogether, so that the varnish doesn't act like a giant glue joint? Is it correct procedure to put the wing together by using glue to attach the ribsto the spars, then use varnish over the whole thing, and just consider itto be one solid unit that cannot be taken apart?OCBhttp://www.mailexcite.com________________________________________________________________________________
I am at last getting to the point where I must start to consider how to put togethermy wings. The problem here is...How do I attach the wing ribs to the spars?Some books I read say nails. Does that mean nails only? So that some day thewing can be disassembled? Should I then varnish all before I put ittogether, so that the varnish doesn't act like a giant glue joint? Is it correct procedure to put the wing together by using glue to attach the ribsto the spars, then use varnish over the whole thing, and just consider itto be one solid unit that cannot be taken apart?OCBhttp://www.mailexcite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: wing construction
Original Posted By: Kevin McDonald
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: wing construction>>Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have>>described.>>>Dear Oil Can Bob, Steveeee is right. In addition, don't do like I did>and tighten your wing X brace cables without the wingtip bow in place.>That bow acts as a compression strut so you don't pull the spars in>toward eachother and bust a rib. (yup, had to make a new rib).>Plus before you put on the wingtip bow make SURE you have already>slid in the aileron face and wing well spars and glue in place. Then you>can install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag and>anti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the X>cables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affair>square. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribs>to the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack.>Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flat>table, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift strutslater.>The wing will remain very flexible in twist until after leading edgeplywood>is installed and then tighter then after fabric. Where those 1/8" X>cables cross each other ?......protect them from each other with tygon>tubing over each or some other anti-chaffe material then tye-wrap them>together right at the x tightly.> You can varnish anything at anytime and that sequence is up to you->but wherever you have a glue joint you cannot have varnish down first.>I left everything completely bare until the wing was totally 100 %finished.>Went to Wal-Mart and bought a $10 plastic 2 quart pump-up bug>spraying bottle with wand and filled that up with Minwax fast drying>polyurethane. Set the nozzle to suit your desired spray pattern and go>at it. I did mine over a gravel farm driveway. One side done, I flipped>the wing over and the drips went the other way, filling as they went.>This will raise the wood grain and you might want to sand between coats>lightly just where the fabric will touch....or wait till you're done.>Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: wing construction>>Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have>>described.>>>Dear Oil Can Bob, Steveeee is right. In addition, don't do like I did>and tighten your wing X brace cables without the wingtip bow in place.>That bow acts as a compression strut so you don't pull the spars in>toward eachother and bust a rib. (yup, had to make a new rib).>Plus before you put on the wingtip bow make SURE you have already>slid in the aileron face and wing well spars and glue in place. Then you>can install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag and>anti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the X>cables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affair>square. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribs>to the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack.>Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flat>table, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift strutslater.>The wing will remain very flexible in twist until after leading edgeplywood>is installed and then tighter then after fabric. Where those 1/8" X>cables cross each other ?......protect them from each other with tygon>tubing over each or some other anti-chaffe material then tye-wrap them>together right at the x tightly.> You can varnish anything at anytime and that sequence is up to you->but wherever you have a glue joint you cannot have varnish down first.>I left everything completely bare until the wing was totally 100 %finished.>Went to Wal-Mart and bought a $10 plastic 2 quart pump-up bug>spraying bottle with wand and filled that up with Minwax fast drying>polyurethane. Set the nozzle to suit your desired spray pattern and go>at it. I did mine over a gravel farm driveway. One side done, I flipped>the wing over and the drips went the other way, filling as they went.>This will raise the wood grain and you might want to sand between coats>lightly just where the fabric will touch....or wait till you're done.>Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you havedescribed. It has been a couple of years since I did this, but this is whatI remember:Prep the spar and ribs by test fit the ribs onto the spar, adjustingopenings if nessesary, Spars should be routed by this point.Start at the wing tip and working root-ward,Slide ribs into position (last time you can take apart the wing)Glue all plywood fitting doublers, making the spar cutout adjustment to ribsthat go over the doublers. don't glue ribs yet. After getting the doublersglued in and the ribs set, locate and install the cross bracing, andcompression struts making sure everything clears the obstacles. Using glue,nails and wedges (to fill the gaps between the curvature of the ribs) fastenthe ribs in place, and glue the compression struts in place. Add the rootribs, wing tip, LE sheeting, and all metal fittings, bracing etc, as if yourready to install the wing on the airframe. After you are satisfied with fitand function, tear all the metal fittings off, and varnish the finishedpiece whole.Steve E.-----Original Message-----canSent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 4:53 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: wing constructionI am at last getting to the point where I must start to consider how to puttogether my wings. The problem here is...How do I attach the wing ribs tothe spars? Some books I read say nails. Does that mean nails only? So thatsome day the wing can be disassembled? Should I then varnish allbefore I put it together, so that the varnish doesn't act like a giant gluejoint? Is it correct procedure to put the wing together by using glue to attachthe ribs to the spars, then use varnish over the whole thing, and justconsider it to be one solid unit that cannot be taken apart?OCBhttp://www.mailexcite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you havedescribed. It has been a couple of years since I did this, but this is whatI remember:Prep the spar and ribs by test fit the ribs onto the spar, adjustingopenings if nessesary, Spars should be routed by this point.Start at the wing tip and working root-ward,Slide ribs into position (last time you can take apart the wing)Glue all plywood fitting doublers, making the spar cutout adjustment to ribsthat go over the doublers. don't glue ribs yet. After getting the doublersglued in and the ribs set, locate and install the cross bracing, andcompression struts making sure everything clears the obstacles. Using glue,nails and wedges (to fill the gaps between the curvature of the ribs) fastenthe ribs in place, and glue the compression struts in place. Add the rootribs, wing tip, LE sheeting, and all metal fittings, bracing etc, as if yourready to install the wing on the airframe. After you are satisfied with fitand function, tear all the metal fittings off, and varnish the finishedpiece whole.Steve E.-----Original Message-----canSent: Wednesday, September 30, 1998 4:53 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: wing constructionI am at last getting to the point where I must start to consider how to puttogether my wings. The problem here is...How do I attach the wing ribs tothe spars? Some books I read say nails. Does that mean nails only? So thatsome day the wing can be disassembled? Should I then varnish allbefore I put it together, so that the varnish doesn't act like a giant gluejoint? Is it correct procedure to put the wing together by using glue to attachthe ribs to the spars, then use varnish over the whole thing, and justconsider it to be one solid unit that cannot be taken apart?OCBhttp://www.mailexcite.com________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: wing construction
Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
>Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have>described. Dear Oil Can Bob, Steveeee is right. In addition, don't do like I didand tighten your wing X brace cables without the wingtip bow in place.That bow acts as a compression strut so you don't pull the spars intoward eachother and bust a rib. (yup, had to make a new rib).Plus before you put on the wingtip bow make SURE you have alreadyslid in the aileron face and wing well spars and glue in place. Then youcan install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag andanti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the Xcables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affairsquare. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribsto the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack. Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flattable, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift struts later.The wing will remain very flexible in twist until after leading edge plywoodis installed and then tighter then after fabric. Where those 1/8" Xcables cross each other ?......protect them from each other with tygontubing over each or some other anti-chaffe material then tye-wrap themtogether right at the x tightly. You can varnish anything at anytime and that sequence is up to you-but wherever you have a glue joint you cannot have varnish down first.I left everything completely bare until the wing was totally 100 % finished.Went to Wal-Mart and bought a $10 plastic 2 quart pump-up bugspraying bottle with wand and filled that up with Minwax fast dryingpolyurethane. Set the nozzle to suit your desired spray pattern and go at it. I did mine over a gravel farm driveway. One side done, I flippedthe wing over and the drips went the other way, filling as they went.This will raise the wood grain and you might want to sand between coatslightly just where the fabric will touch....or wait till you're done. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
>Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have>described. Dear Oil Can Bob, Steveeee is right. In addition, don't do like I didand tighten your wing X brace cables without the wingtip bow in place.That bow acts as a compression strut so you don't pull the spars intoward eachother and bust a rib. (yup, had to make a new rib).Plus before you put on the wingtip bow make SURE you have alreadyslid in the aileron face and wing well spars and glue in place. Then youcan install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag andanti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the Xcables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affairsquare. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribsto the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack. Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flattable, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift struts later.The wing will remain very flexible in twist until after leading edge plywoodis installed and then tighter then after fabric. Where those 1/8" Xcables cross each other ?......protect them from each other with tygontubing over each or some other anti-chaffe material then tye-wrap themtogether right at the x tightly. You can varnish anything at anytime and that sequence is up to you-but wherever you have a glue joint you cannot have varnish down first.I left everything completely bare until the wing was totally 100 % finished.Went to Wal-Mart and bought a $10 plastic 2 quart pump-up bugspraying bottle with wand and filled that up with Minwax fast dryingpolyurethane. Set the nozzle to suit your desired spray pattern and go at it. I did mine over a gravel farm driveway. One side done, I flippedthe wing over and the drips went the other way, filling as they went.This will raise the wood grain and you might want to sand between coatslightly just where the fabric will touch....or wait till you're done. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: RE: wing construction
Original Posted By: Mike Cunningham
I agree with Michael on his description except for one point. I justfinished trammelling (is this word actually in the dictionary, I've usedit but was never sure) up the wings for the Christavia. I had squared themup on the wood horses and then installed them on the plane. Once mounted,it was apparent that this process is not accurate enough. The left wingtip was about 3/4" too far forward and the right was about 1" too farback. What we did was to install the wings (no struts at this point) by hangingthem from the rafters and bolting the wing roots to the fuselage. Thewings were initially set up level (no dihedral, wahsout or incidenceangle) and a string was stretched along the LE from tip to tip. All theDrag/Antidrag wires were loosened and we started with the inboard bays.The wings were first straitened out so that the string was an evendistance from the LE along the length of the span. Then, the distance fronthe tip to the tail was checked and was found to be out by less than 1/16"(I was very happy about that). Next, the remaining bays were tightened sothat the LE remained straight along the span. The final measurement wastaken to the tail. Mi drag/antidrag wires are 1/8" control cable withturnbuckles, so at this point, tthe turnbuckles were safetied to keep themfixed. The entire process took about 4 hrs.KenOn Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Michael D Cuy wrote:> >Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have> >described. > > can install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag and> anti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the X> cables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affair> square. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribs> to the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack. > Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flat> table, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift struts later.________________________________________________________________________________
I agree with Michael on his description except for one point. I justfinished trammelling (is this word actually in the dictionary, I've usedit but was never sure) up the wings for the Christavia. I had squared themup on the wood horses and then installed them on the plane. Once mounted,it was apparent that this process is not accurate enough. The left wingtip was about 3/4" too far forward and the right was about 1" too farback. What we did was to install the wings (no struts at this point) by hangingthem from the rafters and bolting the wing roots to the fuselage. Thewings were initially set up level (no dihedral, wahsout or incidenceangle) and a string was stretched along the LE from tip to tip. All theDrag/Antidrag wires were loosened and we started with the inboard bays.The wings were first straitened out so that the string was an evendistance from the LE along the length of the span. Then, the distance fronthe tip to the tail was checked and was found to be out by less than 1/16"(I was very happy about that). Next, the remaining bays were tightened sothat the LE remained straight along the span. The final measurement wastaken to the tail. Mi drag/antidrag wires are 1/8" control cable withturnbuckles, so at this point, tthe turnbuckles were safetied to keep themfixed. The entire process took about 4 hrs.KenOn Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Michael D Cuy wrote:> >Regarding wing construction, There is even more to it than you have> >described. > > can install the wingtip bow and tighten the wing cables. (drag and> anti-drag cables) Trammel the two wing bays as you tighten the X> cables making sure each leg of the X is equal- keeping the whole affair> square. I found just using a large carpenter's square checking the ribs> to the spar faces was enough to tell me what was out of whack. > Two saw horses is all you need- don't worry about making a huge flat> table, etc. You'll be able to adjust wing twist with your lift struts later.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was raised.Jeff in Texas getting the bbq outOne-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413 ... ______Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:50:21 -0500
Hey guys, I've got a question. Does it matter if the leading edge is attached to the wing ribs before the drag/anti-drag wires are attached and tightened?. I personally don't think it's a factor but the questioned was raised.Jeff in Texas getting the bbq outOne-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413 ... ______Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 09:50:21 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: "Jeff Hill"
Wing should be trammeled before the leading edge goes on. This means thatyou need to have installed the drag-antidrag wires so to straighten it allup first.Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, OshkoshEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.orgAlways looking for articles for Sport Pilot----- Original Message -----
Wing should be trammeled before the leading edge goes on. This means thatyou need to have installed the drag-antidrag wires so to straighten it allup first.Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, OshkoshEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or sportpilot(at)eaa.orgAlways looking for articles for Sport Pilot----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: "Jeff Hill"
I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeledfirst. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if theleading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have notbuilt any wings so my advice may be worth nothing.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeledfirst. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if theleading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have notbuilt any wings so my advice may be worth nothing.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----
Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By:> "DJ Vegh"
DJ, you and Cy Galley are both absolutely correct. The wing must be free to movewhen trammeling, otherwise, since the leading edge is not in the plane of thedrag/anti-drag wires, any forces put on the wing when tensioning the wireswill be resisted by the ribs and leading edge, forcing out-of-plane twists inthe wing. For the same reason you certainly don't want the plywood skin on theleading edge before trammeling. It's also not a terribly good idea to gluethe ribs to the spars, at least not before tramelling the wing Once the wing is tramelled and square, then attaching the leading edge and theplywood adds a little rigidity to help hold it that way.Jack Phillips>
DJ, you and Cy Galley are both absolutely correct. The wing must be free to movewhen trammeling, otherwise, since the leading edge is not in the plane of thedrag/anti-drag wires, any forces put on the wing when tensioning the wireswill be resisted by the ribs and leading edge, forcing out-of-plane twists inthe wing. For the same reason you certainly don't want the plywood skin on theleading edge before trammeling. It's also not a terribly good idea to gluethe ribs to the spars, at least not before tramelling the wing Once the wing is tramelled and square, then attaching the leading edge and theplywood adds a little rigidity to help hold it that way.Jack Phillips>
> Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: dave rowe
Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By: dave rowe
> Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction
Original Posted By:> "Jeff Hill"
> To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction> > > I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeled> first. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if the> leading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have not> built any wings so my advice may be worth nothing.> > > DJ Vegh> N74DV> Mesa, AZ> www.imagedv.com/aircamper> > > > -> > ----- Original Message -----
> To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing construction> > > I would think you'd want the drag-antidrag wires installed and trammeled> first. The wing will need to move a little when trammeling and if the> leading edge is secured to the ribs it may bind up a little, but I have not> built any wings so my advice may be worth nothing.> > > DJ Vegh> N74DV> Mesa, AZ> www.imagedv.com/aircamper> > > > -> > ----- Original Message -----