Original Posted By: TomTravis(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropBlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally whilebuilding our planes, but for those who have planes that were builtwithout them, I would like your recommendations.I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this talkabout slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendationsfrom those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planeswere built.I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gapseals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slightlynose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on theplane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wingsand the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summermonths. As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatlyappreciated.Thanks.Mike KingGN-177MKDallasAttachment: http://www.matronics.com/enclosures/5b2 ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropMike,Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.Gordon Bowen----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AMBlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally whilebuilding our planes, but for those who have planes that were builtwithout them, I would like your recommendations.I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this talkabout slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendationsfrom those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planeswere built.I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gapseals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slightlynose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraidchanging to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly evenmore nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on theplane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wingsand the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summermonths.As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatlyappreciated.Thanks.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropMike,Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.Gordon Bowen----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AMBlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally whilebuilding our planes, but for those who have planes that were builtwithout them, I would like your recommendations.I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all this talkabout slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendationsfrom those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their planeswere built.I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gapseals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies slightlynose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraidchanging to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly evenmore nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on theplane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wingsand the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summermonths.As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatlyappreciated.Thanks.Mike KingGN-177MKDallas________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropI would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.Barry----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM> >> Mike,> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped > with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus > the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell > me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all > the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. > Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you > have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will > be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.> Gordon Bowen>> ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM>>> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built> without them, I would like your recommendations.>> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all > this talk> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their > planes> were built.>> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies > slightly> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer> months.>> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly> appreciated.>> Thanks.>>> Mike King> GN-1> 77MK> Dallas>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://wiki.matronics.com>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropI would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.Barry----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM> >> Mike,> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped > with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus > the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell > me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all > the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. > Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you > have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all will > be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.> Gordon Bowen>> ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM>>> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built> without them, I would like your recommendations.>> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all > this talk> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their > planes> were built.>> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing gap> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies > slightly> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the wings> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer> months.>> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly> appreciated.>> Thanks.>>> Mike King> GN-1> 77MK> Dallas>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://wiki.matronics.com>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Original Posted By: "Mike King"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropBarry,Just today put on Hall VG's from Spruce, cheapest of the various suppliers, on my Osprey. For $186 got roll of 3M electricians tape, bottle of Pliobond rubber adhesive and 46 slightly curved VG's plus 16 flat VG's (for underside tail feathers). I ended up just using the Vg's and my own polyurethane/silicone adhesive. Anyway, kinda expensive but they wind tunnelled these and give a good explanation of where to put them. I need to put them for sure on the Osprey because of the funny flight characteristics of this homebuilt and it's loss of tailfeather effectiveness with loss of power. I have a o-235 on the Piete and am kinda big (6'4"/260 lbs) for a Piete. Moved the engine out front with longer motor mount, battery forward too, for CG reasons. Think the Vg's will help the tail don't know about the stall etc. Due to the cost, think I'll make my own trial VG's for the Piete out of plastic L extrusions first, then maybe a $186 set of al from Hall. The Vg manufacturers don't do much with homebuilts regarding testing effectiveness with wind tunnelling, except Longezes and RV's. Googling "vortex generators", provide lots of info about using these on storebought planes. But the guys here in Homer swear by them on their Supercubs, etc. We'll see if the price was worth it.Gordon----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:56 AM>> I would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I > hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.> Barry> ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM>>>> >>>> Mike,>> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped >> with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus >> the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell >> me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all >> the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. >> Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you >> have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all >> will be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.>> Gordon Bowen>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM>>>>>> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while>> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built>> without them, I would like your recommendations.>>>> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.>> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all >> this talk>> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations>> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their >> planes>> were built.>>>> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing >> gap>> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies >> slightly>> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid>> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even>> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the>> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the >> wings>> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer>> months.>>>> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly>> appreciated.>>>> Thanks.>>>>>> Mike King>> GN-1>> 77MK>> Dallas>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> http://wiki.matronics.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://wiki.matronics.com>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropBarry,Just today put on Hall VG's from Spruce, cheapest of the various suppliers, on my Osprey. For $186 got roll of 3M electricians tape, bottle of Pliobond rubber adhesive and 46 slightly curved VG's plus 16 flat VG's (for underside tail feathers). I ended up just using the Vg's and my own polyurethane/silicone adhesive. Anyway, kinda expensive but they wind tunnelled these and give a good explanation of where to put them. I need to put them for sure on the Osprey because of the funny flight characteristics of this homebuilt and it's loss of tailfeather effectiveness with loss of power. I have a o-235 on the Piete and am kinda big (6'4"/260 lbs) for a Piete. Moved the engine out front with longer motor mount, battery forward too, for CG reasons. Think the Vg's will help the tail don't know about the stall etc. Due to the cost, think I'll make my own trial VG's for the Piete out of plastic L extrusions first, then maybe a $186 set of al from Hall. The Vg manufacturers don't do much with homebuilts regarding testing effectiveness with wind tunnelling, except Longezes and RV's. Googling "vortex generators", provide lots of info about using these on storebought planes. But the guys here in Homer swear by them on their Supercubs, etc. We'll see if the price was worth it.Gordon----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 9:56 AM>> I would be very interested in your experimentation on vortex generators. I > hope you keep the group informed on your progress and results.> Barry> ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 12:22 PM>>>> >>>> Mike,>> Almost all the taildraggers here on the field at Homer AK, are equipped >> with vortex generators on the underside of their horizonal stabs. Plus >> the normal ones on the wings. The guys who own these SuperCubs etc. tell >> me it makes a world of difference in the sensation of flying "uphill" all >> the time. I intend to put VG's on N-1033B when I get back down to FL. >> Maybe someone out there in Piete land has tried this too. Pipe-up if you >> have. Sorry about not being able to make it to Broadhead, but you all >> will be glad to know that the salmon are running just fine.>> Gordon Bowen>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >> Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2006 5:14 AM>>>>>> BlankI know we have talked about gap seals in the past, generally while>> building our planes, but for those who have planes that were built>> without them, I would like your recommendations.>>>> I bought my 1985 GN-1 some years ago and it was built to plans.>> That means there are no gap seals on the wings nor the tail. With all >> this talk>> about slightly improved performance, I would like some recommendations>> from those who have put gap seals on their PIETs or GN-1s after their >> planes>> were built.>>>> I feel changing my 69x39 McCauley metal prop on my A-80 and installing >> gap>> seals would enhance my plane's overall performance. The plane flies >> slightly>> nose high and has a spring trim but does not do much good. I am afraid>> changing to a lighter wooden 72x42 prop would make the plane fly even>> more nose high. So I have been hesitate to change anything on the>> plane but feel changing the prop and filling in the gaps between the >> wings>> and the horizontal stab. would improve performance during the summer>> months.>>>> As always, the bank of knowledge afforded in this group is greatly>> appreciated.>>>> Thanks.>>>>>> Mike King>> GN-1>> 77MK>> Dallas>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>> http://wiki.matronics.com>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://wiki.matronics.com>>> ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Original Posted By: Gordon Bowen
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropGordon,Thanks for the thought. I don't know that much about vortex generatorsand would like to see a few pictures of your planes in Homer, AK using them. I know people say Piets and GN-1s fly like Cubs, butthat is so far from the truth. I did my tailwheel checkout in a Cub beforeI flew my GN-1. When I flew my plane, it did NOT fly like a Cub......noglide ratio, float, etc...... When you pull the throttle, back it is going straightdown.Now, I am thinking about a combination of vortex generators and/orgap seals. Thanks Gordon for the input.Best regards,Mike KingGN-177MKDallas ----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropGordon,Thanks for the thought. I don't know that much about vortex generatorsand would like to see a few pictures of your planes in Homer, AK using them. I know people say Piets and GN-1s fly like Cubs, butthat is so far from the truth. I did my tailwheel checkout in a Cub beforeI flew my GN-1. When I flew my plane, it did NOT fly like a Cub......noglide ratio, float, etc...... When you pull the throttle, back it is going straightdown.Now, I am thinking about a combination of vortex generators and/orgap seals. Thanks Gordon for the input.Best regards,Mike KingGN-177MKDallas ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/Prop
Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropJust my 2 cents on VG's. I have a Glastar and recently added VG's under the tail and it made a world of difference. _WWW.Landshorter.com_ (http://www.Landshorter.com) is a place in Idaho that has a good reputation and has done a fair amount of testing with their VG's. I've been very happy with the performance and their customer service. 95$ for 100 VG's and the templates andinfo, etc. Very reasonable.CheersJon Apfelbaum________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gap Seals/PropJust my 2 cents on VG's. I have a Glastar and recently added VG's under the tail and it made a world of difference. _WWW.Landshorter.com_ (http://www.Landshorter.com) is a place in Idaho that has a good reputation and has done a fair amount of testing with their VG's. I've been very happy with the performance and their customer service. 95$ for 100 VG's and the templates andinfo, etc. Very reasonable.CheersJon Apfelbaum________________________________________________________________________________