Original Posted By: airlion
Hey GardinerGood jobIt's a long way from putting that fuselage together at Sun n Fun.Dick N ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood
Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
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________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis
Pietenpol-List: Elevator Control Stops?
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Ryan wrote:>I would think with Mike's method, the Ken Perkins method>that Tom sketched, or something equivalent you would have>more accessible stops located in the cockpit areas....both>for later adjustment if needed and for ease of inspection..True, but as noted in an earlier post, the old ACs and goodpractice recommend control stops out near the control surfaceitself. I suppose it has to do with limiting flutter ifsomething breaks between the cockpit and the control surface.So there are reasons for having the stops at both ends butmy airplane doesn't have them. I guess if I survive asituation that proves that it's a good idea to have thestops at both ends, I'll post details on the retrofiton this list. If I don't survive, I hope somebody atleast scrounges the turnbuckles off the carcass of 41CCbecause those things are worth their weight in gold.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Ryan wrote:>I would think with Mike's method, the Ken Perkins method>that Tom sketched, or something equivalent you would have>more accessible stops located in the cockpit areas....both>for later adjustment if needed and for ease of inspection..True, but as noted in an earlier post, the old ACs and goodpractice recommend control stops out near the control surfaceitself. I suppose it has to do with limiting flutter ifsomething breaks between the cockpit and the control surface.So there are reasons for having the stops at both ends butmy airplane doesn't have them. I guess if I survive asituation that proves that it's a good idea to have thestops at both ends, I'll post details on the retrofiton this list. If I don't survive, I hope somebody atleast scrounges the turnbuckles off the carcass of 41CCbecause those things are worth their weight in gold.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stainlesssteel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such astrim attachment, etc. - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found awebsite that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listedstrength:http://www.skybolt.comThe website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so you'llhave to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing",then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-Stainless".A screen shot is attached for reference.So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fastenersthat have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check very carefullywith the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how these stainlesssteel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else,for that matter.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/skyb ... __________
My gut feeling would be that AN bolts would be the way to go, and that stainlesssteel fasteners should only be used for non-structural applications, such astrim attachment, etc. - BUT I just did a quick internet search, and found awebsite that lists MS27039C stainless steel machine screws with 125,000 PSI listedstrength:http://www.skybolt.comThe website won't allow me to give a direct link to the specific page, so you'llhave to go over to the left hand side of the page, and click "online purchasing",then click on "AN-MS-NAS Screws", and then "MS27039C Screws-Stainless".A screen shot is attached for reference.So, the short answer is MAYBE you can buy AIRCRAFT GRADE stainless steel fastenersthat have strength comparable to AN bolts - but you should check very carefullywith the supplier regarding the strength. I have no idea how these stainlesssteel fasteners compare with regards to fatigue strength, or anything else,for that matter.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/skyb ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis
Original Posted By: Bill Church
At least in a certified aircraft stainless hardware is never approved for structural use. Just because there is a MS number associated with a stainless screw does not necessarily mean that is is approved for a particular purpose, just that there is a stock number for it. Even though the tensile strength of the material appears to equate to other steel hardware, I would not use it in a structural location.GeneA&P and IA since 1981 ----- Original Message -----
At least in a certified aircraft stainless hardware is never approved for structural use. Just because there is a MS number associated with a stainless screw does not necessarily mean that is is approved for a particular purpose, just that there is a stock number for it. Even though the tensile strength of the material appears to equate to other steel hardware, I would not use it in a structural location.GeneA&P and IA since 1981 ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis
Original Posted By: airlion
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Bolts and stress anal-isis
Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
In certified aircraft, specific hardware is included as part of the type certificate. Hardware that meets the same specifications as original are to be used, even if it is stainless steel.In some certified aircraft, certain particular stainless steel hardware has been used. I know of the reasonably wide use of A286, an iron, chrome and nickel alloy, due to his high strength and relatively high toughness.The thing that's important in certified aircraft is to use the specified hardware for that particular application - and sometimes it will be stainless steel. David Paule----- Original Message -----
In certified aircraft, specific hardware is included as part of the type certificate. Hardware that meets the same specifications as original are to be used, even if it is stainless steel.In some certified aircraft, certain particular stainless steel hardware has been used. I know of the reasonably wide use of A286, an iron, chrome and nickel alloy, due to his high strength and relatively high toughness.The thing that's important in certified aircraft is to use the specified hardware for that particular application - and sometimes it will be stainless steel. David Paule----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Maybe just removable, like Mikey's.Clif on the Wetcoast, Land of the Stolen Sun----- Original Message ----- >> Maybe a 100# breakaway stick in the front pit, and 200# stick for the > pilot?> Tim in central TX________________________________________________________________________________
Maybe just removable, like Mikey's.Clif on the Wetcoast, Land of the Stolen Sun----- Original Message ----- >> Maybe a 100# breakaway stick in the front pit, and 200# stick for the > pilot?> Tim in central TX________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
How about Sun 'n' Fun? Will you fly it down there, Gardiner? I'm hoping tofly mine down there this year, wx permitting.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
How about Sun 'n' Fun? Will you fly it down there, Gardiner? I'm hoping tofly mine down there this year, wx permitting.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Gardiner and his Pietenpol, December 2009
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Control Stops?> >> bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>> >> > I'm still rebuilding my A-65 and getting the Piet ready for its> > airworthiness inspection. Can anybody share some ideas on how to put a> > control stop on the elevators?> >> > Ben Charvet> > Mims, Fl> >> >> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:42:19 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Elevator Control Stops?> >> bcharvet(at)bellsouth.net>> >> > I'm still rebuilding my A-65 and getting the Piet ready for its> > airworthiness inspection. Can anybody share some ideas on how to put a> > control stop on the elevators?> >> > Ben Charvet> > Mims, Fl> >> >> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:42:19 -0600Subject: Pietenpol-List: Control stick wood