Original Posted By: Michael Perez
All,I'm presently cutting and fitting the seats. Should I NOT proceed gluingthem in prior to putting in the control assembly? At this stage on thefuselage things really get more complicated. Glad I'm sticking pretty closeto plans, Mr. Pietenpol sure had things figured out.Thanks for your thoughts!Jack________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 13:18:39 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Jack,My advice is to NOT glue the seats in, yet. You still need to figure outseat belt attachments, plus who-knows-what. While at Brodhead last year, Isaw some nifty storage ideas under that piece of plywood! In fact, I thinkthere are those who might advise just screwing the seat bottoms down forannual inspections, etc.Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear16 ribs done
Jack,My advice is to NOT glue the seats in, yet. You still need to figure outseat belt attachments, plus who-knows-what. While at Brodhead last year, Isaw some nifty storage ideas under that piece of plywood! In fact, I thinkthere are those who might advise just screwing the seat bottoms down forannual inspections, etc.Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear16 ribs done
Re: Pietenpol-List: markel fund
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
I did not get the email either. I even checked my spam boxMike McGowan shadetree(at)socket.net Thanks ----- Original Message -----
I did not get the email either. I even checked my spam boxMike McGowan shadetree(at)socket.net Thanks ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Pietenpol-List: Re: markel fund
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
I didn't receive an e-mail either. Check will be in the mail as soon as I get theinfo. gdnrguy04(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I didn't receive an e-mail either. Check will be in the mail as soon as I get theinfo. gdnrguy04(at)hotmail.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Good thoughts, thanks to all. Every day I find out how important it is to"read" ahead in the plans. There is a reason they are as drawn. Mr.Pietenpol built so many ships he figured out "the right way" to do mosteverything. A really fun stage with the fuselage, which I'm sure, will getmore challenging as I go forward.JackDSM _____
Good thoughts, thanks to all. Every day I find out how important it is to"read" ahead in the plans. There is a reason they are as drawn. Mr.Pietenpol built so many ships he figured out "the right way" to do mosteverything. A really fun stage with the fuselage, which I'm sure, will getmore challenging as I go forward.JackDSM _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Jack
Well, you CAN still put the controls in even with the seats installed. As some others have suggested, you could leave the seat bottom plywood off until they are situated. Like you, I tried to follow the plans so locating the controls should not be a problem. Even though trying to follow the plans faithfully, I did add some structure to the seat bottoms because I think the plans were intentionally vague, rather than they left anything out. Everyone adds different things, if you are interested I could send photos of the changes I made. I tried to make the fewest changes and add the most support.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Well, you CAN still put the controls in even with the seats installed. As some others have suggested, you could leave the seat bottom plywood off until they are situated. Like you, I tried to follow the plans so locating the controls should not be a problem. Even though trying to follow the plans faithfully, I did add some structure to the seat bottoms because I think the plans were intentionally vague, rather than they left anything out. Everyone adds different things, if you are interested I could send photos of the changes I made. I tried to make the fewest changes and add the most support.Gene ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: H RULE
I would recommend permanently installing allthe seat framing members (sticks) as you buildthe fuselage. They will help keep everythingsquare and rigid. For the plywood seats andbacks, I can only suggest what to do based onmy own experience rebuilding the seats andframing on 41CC after the nose-over, when Ifound various things in need of repair.The front seat back needs to be permanentlyfitted and glued in place during construction,although once it's permanently fastened youhave to alternate between cockpits when you'refitting controls, instruments, everything. It'sjust that the front seat back is an importantstructural element. The seat bottom actuallyhas two plywood parts of interest... the frontpart of the bottom (trapezoidal shape with acutout for the control tubing) and the seatpart that the passenger sits on. The trapezoidalpiece needs to be permanently installed beforethe controls are fitted into place unless youplan to make it in two pieces and fit them aroundthe tubing, which I don't recommend because thetrapezoidal piece is also a fairly importantdiaphragm that helps support the passenger's weight.The seat bottom can be left off indefinitely oryou can do what I did and cut two holes in itto allow access to the control tubing and rudderbar underneath. See pix at the bottom,here:http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.htmlAfter the front seat was permanently installed, Imade a separate piece of plywood with the upholsteryon it. That piece is held in place with velcro andcan be removed for inspection of the rudder bar andcontrols beneath by viewing through the holes inthe permanent part.In the pilot's cockpit, once the seat back goesin, access is very limited but 41CC has ahinged cutout that pivots forward, allowing accessback there. Obviously, the hinged part can beleft off until final assembly and there will beaccess to the area behind the seat until then.The seat bottom on 41CC is actually two pieces ofplywood; one fixed, one removable. The piece thatis fixed has large openings cut in it between theseat framing members so that there is hand accessdown into the area under the seat. Like the front,the piece that is removable is the piece that isupholstered.I think it is very important to be able to sit inthe fuselage as soon as the framing allows you toput in at least a temporary seat. Sitting in thefuselage allows you to fit all of the controls,instruments, windscreens, seatbelts, and everythingelse to suit you properly. Not only that, it givesyou the proper perspective out of the cockpit soyou can begin to visualize the attitude and configuration of the airplane on the ground. It alsooffers the greatest psychological boost of almostany other phase of completion that early in theproject, and will motivate you beyond belief.Put the seats in as soon as you can.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:00:07 -0800 (PST)
I would recommend permanently installing allthe seat framing members (sticks) as you buildthe fuselage. They will help keep everythingsquare and rigid. For the plywood seats andbacks, I can only suggest what to do based onmy own experience rebuilding the seats andframing on 41CC after the nose-over, when Ifound various things in need of repair.The front seat back needs to be permanentlyfitted and glued in place during construction,although once it's permanently fastened youhave to alternate between cockpits when you'refitting controls, instruments, everything. It'sjust that the front seat back is an importantstructural element. The seat bottom actuallyhas two plywood parts of interest... the frontpart of the bottom (trapezoidal shape with acutout for the control tubing) and the seatpart that the passenger sits on. The trapezoidalpiece needs to be permanently installed beforethe controls are fitted into place unless youplan to make it in two pieces and fit them aroundthe tubing, which I don't recommend because thetrapezoidal piece is also a fairly importantdiaphragm that helps support the passenger's weight.The seat bottom can be left off indefinitely oryou can do what I did and cut two holes in itto allow access to the control tubing and rudderbar underneath. See pix at the bottom,here:http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.htmlAfter the front seat was permanently installed, Imade a separate piece of plywood with the upholsteryon it. That piece is held in place with velcro andcan be removed for inspection of the rudder bar andcontrols beneath by viewing through the holes inthe permanent part.In the pilot's cockpit, once the seat back goesin, access is very limited but 41CC has ahinged cutout that pivots forward, allowing accessback there. Obviously, the hinged part can beleft off until final assembly and there will beaccess to the area behind the seat until then.The seat bottom on 41CC is actually two pieces ofplywood; one fixed, one removable. The piece thatis fixed has large openings cut in it between theseat framing members so that there is hand accessdown into the area under the seat. Like the front,the piece that is removable is the piece that isupholstered.I think it is very important to be able to sit inthe fuselage as soon as the framing allows you toput in at least a temporary seat. Sitting in thefuselage allows you to fit all of the controls,instruments, windscreens, seatbelts, and everythingelse to suit you properly. Not only that, it givesyou the proper perspective out of the cockpit soyou can begin to visualize the attitude and configuration of the airplane on the ground. It alsooffers the greatest psychological boost of almostany other phase of completion that early in theproject, and will motivate you beyond belief.Put the seats in as soon as you can.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 18:00:07 -0800 (PST)
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I never glued my seats in. I have them attached with wood screws and havehad them out several times sunce I got it flying - at least 3 times for thefront seat (to service the brake cylinders) and once for the rear seat.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
I never glued my seats in. I have them attached with wood screws and havehad them out several times sunce I got it flying - at least 3 times for thefront seat (to service the brake cylinders) and once for the rear seat.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
I can't wait to start framing up the fuse. Hopefully this summer.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:41:07 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
I can't wait to start framing up the fuse. Hopefully this summer.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:41:07 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Pietenpol-List: firewall tipIn reading about removable seat backs/ bottoms it reminded me of one of the best movesI made (or didn't make) while building and that was to not glue my fuselage 1/8" plywoodbulkhead in until the very last step on the fuselage before COVERING. I mean I did notglue the firewall in until after the engine was completely rebuilt and installed and runon the airframe so that I could properly locate all of the controls like throttle, carb heat,gascolator, fuel line, oil pressure and temperature runs, and the all important smoke oilsupply. Installation of the front rudder pedals is a snap too without that firewall in place.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:56:47 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control Assembly
Subject: Pietenpol-List: firewall tipIn reading about removable seat backs/ bottoms it reminded me of one of the best movesI made (or didn't make) while building and that was to not glue my fuselage 1/8" plywoodbulkhead in until the very last step on the fuselage before COVERING. I mean I did notglue the firewall in until after the engine was completely rebuilt and installed and runon the airframe so that I could properly locate all of the controls like throttle, carb heat,gascolator, fuel line, oil pressure and temperature runs, and the all important smoke oilsupply. Installation of the front rudder pedals is a snap too without that firewall in place.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:56:47 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Control Assembly
RE: Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Beautiful work Dan, thanks! _____
Beautiful work Dan, thanks! _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
RE: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Great additional comments on the order of completion of the fuselage,thanks! One thing I wish I had not done was to add wedges to the toplongerons on either side of the front seat where the top of the V's wouldmeet the longeron. I will plan to put them behind the seat which should worktoo. Mr. Pietenpol was right again...Thanks all!Jack DSM________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:14:30 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Great additional comments on the order of completion of the fuselage,thanks! One thing I wish I had not done was to add wedges to the toplongerons on either side of the front seat where the top of the V's wouldmeet the longeron. I will plan to put them behind the seat which should worktoo. Mr. Pietenpol was right again...Thanks all!Jack DSM________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:14:30 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
RE: Pietenpol-List: off topic question
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Douwe,Copper tubing bends quite easily...if only you could ask some of myancestors from prohibition...I had occasion to use some 1/2" tubing a few years ago while making ahome-made water cooler. I bent approximately 20' of tubing around a 16"cylinder (roll of chicken wire!). All worked well...no kinks.Obviously, that might be a little expensive for you...Good Luck!Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Douwe,Copper tubing bends quite easily...if only you could ask some of myancestors from prohibition...I had occasion to use some 1/2" tubing a few years ago while making ahome-made water cooler. I bent approximately 20' of tubing around a 16"cylinder (roll of chicken wire!). All worked well...no kinks.Obviously, that might be a little expensive for you...Good Luck!Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: off topic question
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
RE: Pietenpol-List: motorcycle links
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Tim,I have "home-made" or "faux" motorcycle chain links. I used AN steel tubingof the appropriate size. BTW - don't pay attention to the length of thebolts pictured.all has been changed.Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Tim,I have "home-made" or "faux" motorcycle chain links. I used AN steel tubingof the appropriate size. BTW - don't pay attention to the length of thebolts pictured.all has been changed.Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Control Assembly
Original Posted By: Tim Willis
Mine is removable too.Tom BernieOn Jan 24, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:> > > I would recommend permanently installing all> the seat framing members (sticks) as you build> the fuselage. They will help keep everything> square and rigid. For the plywood seats and> backs, I can only suggest what to do based on> my own experience rebuilding the seats and> framing on 41CC after the nose-over, when I> found various things in need of repair.> > The front seat back needs to be permanently> fitted and glued in place during construction,> although once it's permanently fastened you> have to alternate between cockpits when you're> fitting controls, instruments, everything. It's> just that the front seat back is an important> structural element. The seat bottom actually> has two plywood parts of interest... the front> part of the bottom (trapezoidal shape with a> cutout for the control tubing) and the seat> part that the passenger sits on. The trapezoidal> piece needs to be permanently installed before> the controls are fitted into place unless you> plan to make it in two pieces and fit them around> the tubing, which I don't recommend because the> trapezoidal piece is also a fairly important> diaphragm that helps support the passenger's weight.> The seat bottom can be left off indefinitely or> you can do what I did and cut two holes in it> to allow access to the control tubing and rudder> bar underneath. See pix at the bottom,here:> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html> > After the front seat was permanently installed, I> made a separate piece of plywood with the upholstery> on it. That piece is held in place with velcro and> can be removed for inspection of the rudder bar and> controls beneath by viewing through the holes in> the permanent part.> > In the pilot's cockpit, once the seat back goes> in, access is very limited but 41CC has a> hinged cutout that pivots forward, allowing access> back there. Obviously, the hinged part can be> left off until final assembly and there will be> access to the area behind the seat until then.> The seat bottom on 41CC is actually two pieces of> plywood; one fixed, one removable. The piece that> is fixed has large openings cut in it between the> seat framing members so that there is hand access> down into the area under the seat. Like the front,> the piece that is removable is the piece that is> upholstered.> > I think it is very important to be able to sit in> the fuselage as soon as the framing allows you to> put in at least a temporary seat. Sitting in the> fuselage allows you to fit all of the controls,> instruments, windscreens, seatbelts, and everything> else to suit you properly. Not only that, it gives> you the proper perspective out of the cockpit so> you can begin to visualize the attitude and config> uration of the airplane on the ground. It also> offers the greatest psychological boost of almost> any other phase of completion that early in the> project, and will motivate you beyond belief.> Put the seats in as soon as you can.> > Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:00:34 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
Mine is removable too.Tom BernieOn Jan 24, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:> > > I would recommend permanently installing all> the seat framing members (sticks) as you build> the fuselage. They will help keep everything> square and rigid. For the plywood seats and> backs, I can only suggest what to do based on> my own experience rebuilding the seats and> framing on 41CC after the nose-over, when I> found various things in need of repair.> > The front seat back needs to be permanently> fitted and glued in place during construction,> although once it's permanently fastened you> have to alternate between cockpits when you're> fitting controls, instruments, everything. It's> just that the front seat back is an important> structural element. The seat bottom actually> has two plywood parts of interest... the front> part of the bottom (trapezoidal shape with a> cutout for the control tubing) and the seat> part that the passenger sits on. The trapezoidal> piece needs to be permanently installed before> the controls are fitted into place unless you> plan to make it in two pieces and fit them around> the tubing, which I don't recommend because the> trapezoidal piece is also a fairly important> diaphragm that helps support the passenger's weight.> The seat bottom can be left off indefinitely or> you can do what I did and cut two holes in it> to allow access to the control tubing and rudder> bar underneath. See pix at the bottom,here:> http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/seat.html> > After the front seat was permanently installed, I> made a separate piece of plywood with the upholstery> on it. That piece is held in place with velcro and> can be removed for inspection of the rudder bar and> controls beneath by viewing through the holes in> the permanent part.> > In the pilot's cockpit, once the seat back goes> in, access is very limited but 41CC has a> hinged cutout that pivots forward, allowing access> back there. Obviously, the hinged part can be> left off until final assembly and there will be> access to the area behind the seat until then.> The seat bottom on 41CC is actually two pieces of> plywood; one fixed, one removable. The piece that> is fixed has large openings cut in it between the> seat framing members so that there is hand access> down into the area under the seat. Like the front,> the piece that is removable is the piece that is> upholstered.> > I think it is very important to be able to sit in> the fuselage as soon as the framing allows you to> put in at least a temporary seat. Sitting in the> fuselage allows you to fit all of the controls,> instruments, windscreens, seatbelts, and everything> else to suit you properly. Not only that, it gives> you the proper perspective out of the cockpit so> you can begin to visualize the attitude and config> uration of the airplane on the ground. It also> offers the greatest psychological boost of almost> any other phase of completion that early in the> project, and will motivate you beyond belief.> Put the seats in as soon as you can.> > Oscar Zuniga> Air Camper NX41CC> San Antonio, TX> mailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.com> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:00:34 -0600 (GMT-06:00)