Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
And then, of course, there was "Radar". What would Mash have been without him?Clif Interesting to know how potention air attacks were detected before Radar. Some of you may have used this equipment, but it was considerably before my time.) Allan Macklem "I have the plans"________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
I tried a search and found a lot of info, but had some specific questions. 1. what are the performance numbers, with a corvair motor. As in fuel burn, climerate, cruse, CG issues, the need of a special carb, can i burn 100LL, ect.?2. Is there a standard set up for wire wheels and brakes? I've seen talk aboutbuying this hub here and getting a rim there. Are there a set of known good motorcyclewheels to use?3. This may go with question 1, but what about gross weight? I'm concerned thatmy dad and I both will not be able to fly in there as he is about 200 and I'm225. Will we be OK so long as the gross weight does not exceed X number? Is thatnumber fluid, in that since we will have extra power with the corvair motorwe'll be ok? 4. I've seen a lot of guys use the O200... what are the advantages there? Thanks for any inputJoeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 23:16:48 -0500
Original Posted By: Matt Wash
also.. anyone know where i can buy vintage looking instruments?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 23:48:42 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
There is a photo (only one) of a Piet that is blue and white. I think maybe adifferent airplane than the one that comes up on the link. The one in the photolooks to have the wing much higher, or the upper longeron much lower than astandard Piet. My Spanish is extremely weak, but I was able to find it. Itlooks like they have a pretty wide variety of aircraft in the club/association.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 06:53:26 -0400
Original Posted By: Ameet Savant
Very nice panel there, dan.And poplar grove isn't too far away from me...as I work in Rockford.Thanks for the other info as well, but what about the corvair performance numbers??Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 06:18:22 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: prevent splinters with duct tape
Original Posted By: "bubbleboy"
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: NX929DH progress reportGreat supper time thanks in prayer Dan-- we are SO fortunate in this country tobe able to build, fly,and navigate around this land with few real restrictions like they have in SO manyother countries thatmake homebuilding and flying them a near impossibility. Great to hear you're doing some crow hops. I found that actually flying the planeas you would your AeroncaSedan on takeoff and landing is easier than the crow hops. Be prepared for a steeperapproach in your Pietthan your Sedan and much, much less float. I carried a bit more speed than neededfor my first dozen or solandings so I could get the feel of the airplane in the flare and try to adjustmy height accordingly. One of the biggest 1st Piet flight things that I wasn't expecting was how LOW youget in the buttocks to theground to touch down compared to airplanes like your Sedan where you sit quitea bit higher in the saddle. Most first time Piet pilot landings tend to be about a foot off the ground wherethe pilot 'feels' like heis about to touch down. In the Piet you have to actually pretend that you'relanding without a landing gear. Pretend like you're trying to grease on the belly of your airplane instead of thewheels and you'll be surprisedat how good you do. My first few landings were 'drop-in's'. I didn't put rubber pads under my axle but let the ash bearer do it's thing andeven after 12 years and many landings there's only a slight indentation where the axle hits. Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Dan...what variety of wood is your panel made from? Stunning!ScottyAustralia--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joe,I used 21" Harley Sportster wheels, with the bearing removed and replacedwith a 1" bearing.WARNING: Not flight tested; not taxi tested; not taco tested...but Iestimate that I have about 10 miles on it, just rolling it in and out of thegarage!Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear19 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
I didn't ask about splintering but that is good information. I also understandthat some use an old fashion paper cutter which should prevent splintering.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 09:20:04 -0500
Original Posted By:> Kringle
John,I cut long strips using a straight edge and a box cutter. The strips variedin width according to the location of the gussets. I then laid out mygussets on the strips using a pre-cut pattern. The final trim was done witha large paper cutter at work. For a few days this was my standard lunchtime diversion.Using this method there is virtually no waste. You would be surprised athow much waste is generated by the kerf with saw cuts.Rick Schreiber> [Original Message]
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
Dan - Agree with Mike that the first real takeoff was easier than the tail-up fasttaxiing. I thumped my first landing. I added 10 mph on final (again, like Mike) and thathelped until I got a better feel for it.Since you've got a bunch of taildragger time it'll be easy.I'm delighted for you.Kevin PurteeNX899KPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Hi Joe Ive posted reports at 20, 50 and 100 hours which you may find helpful.Search the archives for kevinpurtee & youll find them. However, in summary, and in the order you asked:1) NX899KP (corvair) burns 5.2 gph with just me and 5.8 gph at gross. My rangeis limited because I used the standard tank. Im ready to get out after 1:20anyway. It climbs ~700 fpm at sea level at 75 degrees with just me. Not surewhat the actual rate of climb is at gross but its darn sure better than a C-150on a hot day. Cruise is 75 mph. CG is not an issue. I extended my enginemount an inch & moved the wing back 4 inches. My carb is a standard little airplanecarb. I burn 100LL exclusively.2) No, there are no standard setups for wire wheels. Look at west coast piet picturesfor the various options. I bought my wheels from airdrome aeroplanes,the tires from JC Whitney, my brake disks from a motorcycle junk yard, and thebrakes from a gokart place. At 115 hours & ~350 landings Im starting to popspokes on the brake side of the hub. Suspect thats from the really good brakes.Im working through that.3) NX899KP weighs 750 pounds empty and I set the gross at 1200. Its your choice.I personally would take your dad flying in my plane on a reasonably calm dayand not worry about it. If you build your plane light (unlike mine) you shouldbe fine.3) Im no expert on O200s but you cant beat certified for reliability.Hope this helps,Kevin PurteeNX899KPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 10:32:53 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: prevent splinters with duct tape
Original Posted By: Dick Dery
HiIf you are seriously considering a Corvair as a power plant, PLEASE talk to WilliamWynne at flycorvair.com. Buy his conversion manual and read it cover tocover. He explains all the good and bad about it and is a character in and ofhimself, though he probably would disagree. His customer support is a thingof beauty if a bit unusual. If you can get to Brodhead, he'll be there along with a number of other peoplewho have real actual time behind the engine in Piets. Talk to them to get groundtruth and not anecdotal BS. It's not a perfect engine but I built one anyway.Sits on my bench ready to run as soon as I can get a stand.Dave AldrichRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 11:37:53 -0700
Original Posted By: "Kringle"
Hi Dave, I've got a McCauley 70x38 metal prop. I've not benchmarked my tach rpm since Igot the plane last month - should probably do so to confirm the reading. Thatbeing said, the plane performs quite well and I'm happy with it. I've not measuredclimb rate yet, will do so soon. I've wondered if maybe going to a 72x38would gain anything - but don't want to spend the cash on a test that at bestwill have margin improvement I think.Lorin--------Lorin MillerWaiex N81YXGN-1 N30PPRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: prevent splinters with duct tape
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
A timely discussion as my first sheet of plywood from Aircraft Spruce came today!However, I am still waiting for riblett 612 plans and am assuming the gussetsmay be of different size and shape.--------JohnRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 15:52:01 -0500
Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Thanks for all the replies! That really helps point my dad and I in the right direction.MAN I want to get over there this weekend and start cutting some wood!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:03:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00)
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
got another one... So if i read the FAR's correctly, would the piet be consideredan ELSA? I mean that's what it would be registered as?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 23:09:51 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Hi Rick...yes the Piet is progressing slowly. Received a box of Corvair parts yesterdayso will clean those ready to fit. I dont have a Fifth Bearing yet butam looking at Dan Weseman's unit. Looks nice and easily fitted. Im not anywherenear that stage yet so see what comes up when I need it. I havent decided onthe engine management unit yet. I like the idea of monitoring all 6 cylindershence I was looking at that unit. I would like to speak to anyone who has oneto see how it goes. I have all the other instruments here. I do love the oldstuff but am a realist when it comes to monitoring the life threatening partsof the plane...lolScotty--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) June 15 released the notice of arule prohibiting the "certification, manufacture, importation, sale, orcontinued use of 121.5 MHz ELTs." The rule would suddenly make aircraft thatare in full compliance with the federal aviation regulations in violation offederal communications law. "At this time, we caution anyone against purchasing a new ELT until thisissue is resolved," said AOPA Vice President of Regulatory Affairs RobHackman. "There's a lot of misunderstanding at this time as to the status ofthis rule. As verified by the FCC, the rule has not been published in theFederal Register, and thereby no effective date can be determined. Thisprovides AOPA and the general aviation industry the opportunity to addressour concerns with the FCC and potentially influence the outcome." 14 CFR Part 91.207 currently requires aircraft to carry a fixed ELT, butdoes not specify either 121.5 or 406 MHz. The FCC's change to 47 CFR Part 87would outlaw the use of the former-effectively forcing general aviationaircraft owners to buy the 406 MHz ELT. The rule would go into effect 60days after publication in the Federal Register. AOPA is aggressivelypursuing all options to have the FCC and FAA delay and re-evaluate the rule,highlighting the economic and operational impact to the more than 220,000aircraft in the GA fleet, most of whom still carry the 121.5 MHz ELTs. "The FCC is making a regulatory change that would impose an extra cost on GAoperators, without properly communicating with the industry or understandingthe implications of its action," Hackman said. "There is no FAA requirementto replace 121.5 MHz units with 406 MHz technology. When two governmentagencies don't coordinate, GA can suffer."Both the 121.5 MHz and 406 MHz ELTs meet the FAA's regulatory requirementsif manufactured to the proper technical standard order. While satellites nolonger monitor the 121.5 MHz frequency as of Feb. 1, 2009, the frequency ismonitored by ATC, the military, and other pilots. AOPA is exploring allavenues of action to address this rule before it goes into effect. It would be impossible to outfit all aircraft in the timeframe of the FCCrule and cost prohibitive for GA aircraft owners. The rule highlights thefact that threats to GA can come from many different areas, Hackman said.Government agencies outside of the FAA don't necessarily understand theeffects of their actions on aviation, and poor communication can compoundthe problem. In addition to the unnecessary cost, this ruling also raisesthe question of the legality of the 406 MHz ELTs because they also transmita low-power signal on 121.5 MHz to allow the search-and-rescue community tohome as part of the rescue process.JackDSM________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
Sounds like the 5th bearing conversion is almost a necessity?I didn't think the corvair motor took that much conversion to make it an airplaneengine. Should I consider other power plant options?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Just a quick comment.We have 4 guys building Corvairs here locally, and all of us consider Roy's 5th bearing to be a better design. Three of us hosted a Corvair College here about 5 years ago & have been very involved in the Corvair community. One is a professional performance engine builder. I'm the least qualified to comment of the 4 as I've only rebuilt a couple of engines in my day. Of course, you'll pay more & it may not be an option for you, since Roy likes to fit each bearing to each case for best precision and fit.Kip GardnerOn Jun 25, 2010, at 5:33 AM, bubbleboy wrote:> >> Hi Rick...yes the Piet is progressing slowly. Received a box of > Corvair parts yesterday so will clean those ready to fit. I dont > have a Fifth Bearing yet but am looking at Dan Weseman's unit. > Looks nice and easily fitted. Im not anywhere near that stage yet > so see what comes up when I need it. I havent decided on the engine > management unit yet. I like the idea of monitoring all 6 cylinders > hence I was looking at that unit. I would like to speak to anyone > who has one to see how it goes. I have all the other instruments > here. I do love the old stuff but am a realist when it comes to > monitoring the life threatening parts of the plane...lol>> Scotty>> --------> Scotty>> Tamworth, Australia> Building a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camper>> www.scottyspietenpol.com>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 08:15:07 -0400
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
J_dunavin,(BTW, do you have a name?),I'm not a fan of the corvair conversions, as others on this list know. Thedesign requirements of an automobile engine are totally different from thoseof an aircraft engine. Auto engines are simply not designed to operate ator near full power for more than a few seconds at a time, where an airplaneengine must do so continuously, and reliably.So to use an auto engine conversion, it must offer advantages over availableaircraft engines. I have a 65 horsepower Continental aircraft engine inmine and I made it essentially a brand new engine for a total cost of $7500.With all the mods that must be made to a Corvair to make it somewhatreliable, I doubt you can do it for much less than $7500.You can buy a running, serviceable (even though close to overhaul)Continental for $3500 and get several years of flying behind it beforeneeding to overhaul it.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Original Posted By:> owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I agree with Jack, insofar as how his comments apply to auto engine conversionsin general. However, there are a couple of his points that I feel cannot be fairlyapplied to the Corvair specifically. I'll address the WW based conversion,as I think it's safe to say it is the most popular.Operation at or near full power continuously: the WW based Corvair conversion producesfull power (approx 100hp) at a far lower RPM than full power in the car.Corvair engines in the auto role redline around 5,500. In the aircraft conversionyou are turning, in a Piet, low 3,000s at most at full throttle. The engineis essentially being derated and not stressed to produce it's power likesome other auto conversions might be.Cost: I agree with Jack that you can overhaul an A-65 for just as much, or evenless than what a full boat Corvair overhaul is goon to cost you. However I feelthis a bit of an apples to oranges comparison, as you are talking a 65hp engineversus a 100hp engine. A fairer comparison would be the cost of a properoverhaul/conversion of a Corvair versus the cost of acquisition and a good overhaulon an 0-200. In that case the Corvair is a less expensive alternative.The nice thing about a Piet is that it certainly does not need 100hp to fly. Ifyou did not need or want 100hp for your Piet, then you can go with an A-65 andhave a solid, reliable aircraft engine for what (I feel) a very well built Corvairwould cost. If you need/want that 100hp, then the Corvair is a viable alternativeto the expense of an O-200.My two cents. :)RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Jun 25, 2010, at 8:10 AM, "Jack Phillips" wrote:> > J_dunavin,> > (BTW, do you have a name?),> > I'm not a fan of the corvair conversions, as others on this list know. The> design requirements of an automobile engine are totally different from those> of an aircraft engine. Auto engines are simply not designed to operate at> or near full power for more than a few seconds at a time, where an airplane> engine must do so continuously, and reliably.> > So to use an auto engine conversion, it must offer advantages over available> aircraft engines. I have a 65 horsepower Continental aircraft engine in> mine and I made it essentially a brand new engine for a total cost of $7500.> With all the mods that must be made to a Corvair to make it somewhat> reliable, I doubt you can do it for much less than $7500.> > You can buy a running, serviceable (even though close to overhaul)> Continental for $3500 and get several years of flying behind it before> needing to overhaul it.> > Jack Phillips> NX899JP> Raleigh, NC> > -----Original Message-----
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Hello Dan,I am new to this site but have been flying my piet on the west coast for 38 years.i have also got wire wheels and no brakes. I understand what you are sayingabout slowing and stopping the plane from moving. I have found that if Irun the tires to where the look almost half flat that it creates enough rollingresistance that I can roll out and stop on a hard surface in about 700'. Theplane won't creep at the hold short line at idle either. I hope this may helpyou some.Regards,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBroadhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/1253 ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
I do actually have a name, it's Joe, or Joseph, but only my mother calls me bymy full name.... or when the wife is mad at me. Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad andI up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best bangfor the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue:A) it is in the plans, B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has threeof them )C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longerX country flights.I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:22:41 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: j_dunavin
Time to ask if you have read Tony B s firewall forward?He talks of such things especially about getting a solid ac engine for near thecost of a conversion. Actually I located a good lycoming 0235 core and whenI am done will have maybe 8K in it and a completely rebuilt engine designed torun at full rpm for extended periods. The next to nothing Corvairs sound attractive but after the time and 8500 bucksyou still have a car engine in your piet. I figure I am building an airplane, why not use an airplane engine?John ------Original Message------
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
My home airport is 690' elevation. Last week I took a retired airline pilot for a ride when the DA was 2700'. I weigh 230 and he weighs 210, we had 8 gallons 100LL on board. Continental A-65 proved plenty capable. We took off using only a few hundred feet of the 3900 asphalt and landed on the 1800' grass using half of it. N12939 weighs 664 empty.Unless you're flying high and hot, get the A-65.Perry RhoadsN12939----- Original Message -----
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Well having never built a plane before, I have read that the mean average buildcost of a piet is $8,000. I would like to try for $6,000. We have time, and wecan scrounge. I can also come up with a lot of hardware, ect. as I am an A&Pand we have lots of goodies at the shop.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
. Hi Dan,Keep up with your testing the way you are comfortable with, What is the Ford turning at fast taxi speeds ?What water pump are you using and at what pulley ratios.My Funk pump requires a good overhaul so I installed a T pump with a 2.5 drivenand a 3" driver. Today with 80 ambient she went to 195. I think a speed-up isadvisable.What are other Ford side mounted pumps turning ?Pieti Lowell !!Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
J,Wanna shave $1,000 more off of that $8K? Use Poplar instead of Spruce.Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear19 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Someone with more knowledge of the Corvair please correct me if im wrong but Irecall reading that the Corvair engine was designed originally for a helicopterunder a tender process. When the company that requested it turned it down theydecided to recoup their design costs and build a car for it. I believe there are enough of them flying to be able to put the aero versus autoconversion issue to bed.Scotty--------ScottyTamworth, AustraliaBuilding a Corvair Powered Pietenpol Air Camperwww.scottyspietenpol.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 18:17:50 -0400
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
My Pietenpol cost me $15,000 to build, of which $7500 was in zero-timing theContinental A65 (new cylinders and pistons, new camshaft, new mags,overhauled crankcase and crankshaft). All aircraft grade materials. Ittook me 8 years to build and I like to tell people I spent the same amountin that 8 years as a 2-pack a day smoker would have spent on cigarettes.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Joe,I did my C-85 overhaul for $4500...JackDSMwww.textors.com-----Original Message-----
) Allan Macklem "I have the plans"________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: couple of new guy questions...
Anyway, I don't know if i NEED a 100hp. I do want to be able to take my dad andI up or whatever friends I want. We are also on a budget, and want the best bangfor the buck, of course. The corvair motor seems like a good idea becasue:A) it is in the plans, B) I think I can pick up a core for next to nothing. ( mybuddy's dad has threeof them )C) overhaul kits would be cheaper? maybe?D) and I think i need the power so I can take others up with me. And or for longerX country flights.I'm also open for other engine ideas... I hear a VW is not a good idea?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:22:41 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: couple of new guy questions...