Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Group,I have been thinking my power plant choices for the Piet and have theopportunity to purchase a mid-time O-235, and wanted to get the adviceof others be for I jump or pull out the wallet. A hangar neighbor isgoing with a larger engine on his plane and said he would sell me hisO-235 with 1200hrs SMOH, he said it's a 2000 hr engine so I'd haveroughly 800 hrs left. He is asking $3500 OBO, but isn't going toinclude the starter or the current mags but he has another set of magshe would sell with it. I figured I'd off $2500 and see if he bites, andpurchase a new starter and new mags. Any thoughts????BrianSLC-UT________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 14:34:06 -0400
Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Re: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: shad bell
RE: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Shad,Thanks for the reply...Yes it's off a PA-16 and it's an 0-235 C1, TT3248 and 1275 SMOH. The A&P in the hangar next to mine say it is moreexpensive to overhaul the 0-235, but in my mind how many years will ittake to burn up 800 hours flying a Piet? If the guy would sell it Iwould buy it for $2500, but for $3500, I just might want my shiny 0 hrCorvair. I have 2 complete Corvair engines with all the right numbersand I am into them for $150.00.BrianSLC -UT
Shad,Thanks for the reply...Yes it's off a PA-16 and it's an 0-235 C1, TT3248 and 1275 SMOH. The A&P in the hangar next to mine say it is moreexpensive to overhaul the 0-235, but in my mind how many years will ittake to burn up 800 hours flying a Piet? If the guy would sell it Iwould buy it for $2500, but for $3500, I just might want my shiny 0 hrCorvair. I have 2 complete Corvair engines with all the right numbersand I am into them for $150.00.BrianSLC -UT
RE: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
If you pay $3500 for the Lycoming, you can expect to put maybe another $2000in it for such things as magnetos, piston rings, spark plugs, etc. for agrand total of $5500, for a certified aircraft engine with knownreliability. I seriously doubt you can convert your $150 worth of Corvairstuff into a reasonably reliable engine (depending on terrain) for less than$6,000. Bear in mind also that if you put a certificated prop on yourLycoming you are looking at only 25 hours of phase 1 testing, whereas nomatter what kind of prop you put on the Corvair, you are stuck with 40 hoursof phase 1 testing. That's an awful long time to bore holes in the skywithout being able to take passengers or go anywhere.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
If you pay $3500 for the Lycoming, you can expect to put maybe another $2000in it for such things as magnetos, piston rings, spark plugs, etc. for agrand total of $5500, for a certified aircraft engine with knownreliability. I seriously doubt you can convert your $150 worth of Corvairstuff into a reasonably reliable engine (depending on terrain) for less than$6,000. Bear in mind also that if you put a certificated prop on yourLycoming you are looking at only 25 hours of phase 1 testing, whereas nomatter what kind of prop you put on the Corvair, you are stuck with 40 hoursof phase 1 testing. That's an awful long time to bore holes in the skywithout being able to take passengers or go anywhere.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Re: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: "TOM STINEMETZE"
Re: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Four years ago, we had a kit of consisting of two new Slick Mags, along with acomplete wiring harness for around $1400. installed, and that was a very goodprice. Prior to purchasing any engine, you might want to put together a comprehensivespreadsheet of costs, and get buy in from all of the suppliers involved.Just my .02 worth.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:19:38 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Four years ago, we had a kit of consisting of two new Slick Mags, along with acomplete wiring harness for around $1400. installed, and that was a very goodprice. Prior to purchasing any engine, you might want to put together a comprehensivespreadsheet of costs, and get buy in from all of the suppliers involved.Just my .02 worth.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 17:19:38 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
RE: Pietenpol-List: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Not even a top overhaul. Just new mags will be close to $1000, and thenwhatever else needs to be done will be another grand.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Not even a top overhaul. Just new mags will be close to $1000, and thenwhatever else needs to be done will be another grand.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
I'm not wanting to sound like a nay-sayer, but, for what its worth, if you usea certificated engine in an experimental, and intend to keep it as a certificatedengine, all the components and accessories need to be PMA stuff, and all theaccessories such as mags and starters, have to be on the TCDS (type certificatedata sheet) for that engine for it to stay as a certificated engine. Also,you will have to have an A&P who has an IA do the annual on the engine (andprop, if you are shooting for the 25 hour test flight time), if you intend tokeep the engine and prop as a certificated set. The prop would also have tobe a model that was listed on the TCDS for the engine for everything to qualifyfor the 25 hour flight test, instead of 40 hour. Any deviation from the TCDSmakes it experimental.Disadvantages (some of the disadvantages) of a certificated engine and prop - probablyhigher repair costs in parts, as they have to be PMA parts, and an A&Pwould have to sign off on any minor repairs, and an A&P with an IA will haveto sign off on major repairs and on the annual on the powerplant. The builder(if he gets a repairman certificate for the airplane, can still sign off theyearly condition inspection on the airframe. (Type Certificated stuff gets annualinspections, experimental stuff gets yearly condition inspections. Mosteveryone on this list already knows this, but in case there are any who weren'taware, I thought I'd throw that in.)Advantages (some of the advantages) of a certificated engine and prop - generally(no guarantees, but usually) higher likelihood of good reliability, and definitelyhigher resale value if all the paperwork is kept up.In my opinion, if you can afford it, the certificated engine is the way to go.My two cents worth. There are others who will disagree, who have had excellentsuccess with their experimental engines, and probably just as many, if notmore, who will agree with the certificated engine idea.Mike GlasgowFAA A&P; FAA Repairman N777WG--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
I'm not wanting to sound like a nay-sayer, but, for what its worth, if you usea certificated engine in an experimental, and intend to keep it as a certificatedengine, all the components and accessories need to be PMA stuff, and all theaccessories such as mags and starters, have to be on the TCDS (type certificatedata sheet) for that engine for it to stay as a certificated engine. Also,you will have to have an A&P who has an IA do the annual on the engine (andprop, if you are shooting for the 25 hour test flight time), if you intend tokeep the engine and prop as a certificated set. The prop would also have tobe a model that was listed on the TCDS for the engine for everything to qualifyfor the 25 hour flight test, instead of 40 hour. Any deviation from the TCDSmakes it experimental.Disadvantages (some of the disadvantages) of a certificated engine and prop - probablyhigher repair costs in parts, as they have to be PMA parts, and an A&Pwould have to sign off on any minor repairs, and an A&P with an IA will haveto sign off on major repairs and on the annual on the powerplant. The builder(if he gets a repairman certificate for the airplane, can still sign off theyearly condition inspection on the airframe. (Type Certificated stuff gets annualinspections, experimental stuff gets yearly condition inspections. Mosteveryone on this list already knows this, but in case there are any who weren'taware, I thought I'd throw that in.)Advantages (some of the advantages) of a certificated engine and prop - generally(no guarantees, but usually) higher likelihood of good reliability, and definitelyhigher resale value if all the paperwork is kept up.In my opinion, if you can afford it, the certificated engine is the way to go.My two cents worth. There are others who will disagree, who have had excellentsuccess with their experimental engines, and probably just as many, if notmore, who will agree with the certificated engine idea.Mike GlasgowFAA A&P; FAA Repairman N777WG--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
This is great info to keep in mind when getting ready to choose your powerplant.Thanks for posting this, Mike!--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:45:51 -0400
This is great info to keep in mind when getting ready to choose your powerplant.Thanks for posting this, Mike!--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:45:51 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: Mike Volckmann
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That mirrors my experience exactly, Ben. I rebuilt my A65 (had to make anew log, as the old logs were lost). Still got the 25 hr flyoff. Myinspection was done by the FSDO, not a DARJack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
That mirrors my experience exactly, Ben. I rebuilt my A65 (had to make anew log, as the old logs were lost). Still got the 25 hr flyoff. Myinspection was done by the FSDO, not a DARJack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: "GliderMike"
I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn'tgive much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plotout the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it sincethe drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double checked the drawingand it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correctbecause it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. Also the 27 3/4 inchdim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing improved from yearspast? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it instead of plotting itout?Thanks.JamieRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn'tgive much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going to plotout the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it sincethe drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double checked the drawingand it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correctbecause it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. Also the 27 3/4 inchdim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing improved from yearspast? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it instead of plotting itout?Thanks.JamieRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawingThe 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff wrote:>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn'tgive much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going toplot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it sincethe drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double checked thedrawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correctbecause it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. Also the 27 3/4 inchdim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing improved from yearspast? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it instead of plottingit out?> Thanks.> Jamie>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:04:50 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawingThe 27 3/4 is the important dimension. Go ahead and use it!RyanSent from my iPhoneOn Aug 28, 2010, at 4:35 PM, JGriff wrote:>> I received my plans and am about to construct my rib jig on 3/4" MDF. I didn'tgive much thought to using the supplied rib drawing and instead was going toplot out the shape because so many posts in the archive say not to use it sincethe drawing is off due to the xerox reproduction. I just double checked thedrawing and it seems pretty accurate. The chord is 58" which I assume is correctbecause it doesn't include the leading or trailing edge. Also the 27 3/4 inchdim given between the spars is spot on. Has the drawing improved from yearspast? I'm thinking of using it - has anyone else used it instead of plottingit out?> Thanks.> Jamie>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:04:50 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
The interpretation comes into play, when the certified engine has non PMA partsand accessories installed, and is rebuilt by someone other than a person withan A&P rating. If there isn't a paperwork trail on a part going back to Noahand the Ark, it most likely isn't PMA approved, at which time the certified enginedoes not conform to the TCDS, and is no longer a certified engine. My understandingis, the engine and/or propeller has to conform to the TCDS to continueto be a certified engine. The builder can get a repairman's Certificateafter it is completed, but he didn't have one when the engine was rebuilt. Obviously,some FSDO people see this as OK. I suspect there are some who don'tsee it as OK. My last two cents. I get wound up by involving myself in discussions like this, and begin to wonderwhy I took the time and went to the expense to get an A&P rating. Especiallysince I have been looking for a job for nearly 4 months since getting the rating.Everyone wants at least 3 to 5 years experience.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
The interpretation comes into play, when the certified engine has non PMA partsand accessories installed, and is rebuilt by someone other than a person withan A&P rating. If there isn't a paperwork trail on a part going back to Noahand the Ark, it most likely isn't PMA approved, at which time the certified enginedoes not conform to the TCDS, and is no longer a certified engine. My understandingis, the engine and/or propeller has to conform to the TCDS to continueto be a certified engine. The builder can get a repairman's Certificateafter it is completed, but he didn't have one when the engine was rebuilt. Obviously,some FSDO people see this as OK. I suspect there are some who don'tsee it as OK. My last two cents. I get wound up by involving myself in discussions like this, and begin to wonderwhy I took the time and went to the expense to get an A&P rating. Especiallysince I have been looking for a job for nearly 4 months since getting the rating.Everyone wants at least 3 to 5 years experience.--------HOMEBUILDERWill WORK for SpruceLong flights, smooth air, and soft landings,GliderMike, aka Mike GlasgowRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: "JGriff"
Jamie,As Ryan, Rick and Jim indicated, go ahead and use the supplied drawing without fear.NX18235 was built using that rib drawing and has happily flown 240+ hours.No worries......Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Jamie,As Ryan, Rick and Jim indicated, go ahead and use the supplied drawing without fear.NX18235 was built using that rib drawing and has happily flown 240+ hours.No worries......Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Thanks for the quick answers and encouragement. I'll go with the drawing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:01:56 +0000 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick answers and encouragement. I'll go with the drawing.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:01:56 +0000 (UTC)
Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: shad bell
RE: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I used the supplied rib template.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
I used the supplied rib template.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
> Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By:> glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com
You have a point=2C but I don't think that is interpretation. That would be bending and some inspectors might be willing to bend more than others. Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
You have a point=2C but I don't think that is interpretation. That would be bending and some inspectors might be willing to bend more than others. Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
> > Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By:> > glidermikeg(at)yahoo.com
Guys,My C85 had a clean log book to day one. I put new Slick mags on, and because I was not an A&P my inspector said the engine was not "certified" and gave me 40 hours, but that's OK I'll go over 40 this week. Also I'm on my own as far as the Repairman Certificate goes.Tom BernieGN-1 N666TBOn Aug 28, 2010, at 11:48 PM, Doug Dever wrote:> You have a point, but I don't think that is interpretation. That would be bending and some inspectors might be willing to bend more than others. > > Doug Dever> In beautiful Stow Ohio> > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Guys,My C85 had a clean log book to day one. I put new Slick mags on, and because I was not an A&P my inspector said the engine was not "certified" and gave me 40 hours, but that's OK I'll go over 40 this week. Also I'm on my own as far as the Repairman Certificate goes.Tom BernieGN-1 N666TBOn Aug 28, 2010, at 11:48 PM, Doug Dever wrote:> You have a point, but I don't think that is interpretation. That would be bending and some inspectors might be willing to bend more than others. > > Doug Dever> In beautiful Stow Ohio> > > > > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: O-235 purchase
Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> > The interpretation comes into play=2C when the certified engine has non PMA parts and accessories installed=2C and is rebuilt by someone other than a person with an A&P rating. If there isn't a paperwork trail on a part going back to Noah and the Ark=2C it most likely isn't PMA approved=2C at which time the certified engine does not conform to the TCDS=2C and is no longer a certified engine. My understanding is=2C the engine and/or propeller has to conform to the TCDS to continue to be a certified engine. The builder can get a repairman's Certificate after it is completed=2C but he didn't have one when the engine was rebuilt. Obviously=2C some FSDO people see this as OK. I suspect there are some who don't see it as OK. > > My last two cents. > > I get wound up by involving myself in discussions like this=2C and begin to wonder why I took the time and went to the expense to get an A&P rating. Especially since I have been looking for a job for nearly 4 months since getting the rating. Everyone wants at least 3 to 5 years experience.> > --------> HOMEBUILDER> Will WORK for Spruce> Long flights=2C smooth air=2C and soft landings=2C> GliderMike=2C aka Mike Glasgow> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 416#310416> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >> > The interpretation comes into play=2C when the certified engine has non PMA parts and accessories installed=2C and is rebuilt by someone other than a person with an A&P rating. If there isn't a paperwork trail on a part going back to Noah and the Ark=2C it most likely isn't PMA approved=2C at which time the certified engine does not conform to the TCDS=2C and is no longer a certified engine. My understanding is=2C the engine and/or propeller has to conform to the TCDS to continue to be a certified engine. The builder can get a repairman's Certificate after it is completed=2C but he didn't have one when the engine was rebuilt. Obviously=2C some FSDO people see this as OK. I suspect there are some who don't see it as OK. > > My last two cents. > > I get wound up by involving myself in discussions like this=2C and begin to wonder why I took the time and went to the expense to get an A&P rating. Especially since I have been looking for a job for nearly 4 months since getting the rating. Everyone wants at least 3 to 5 years experience.> > --------> HOMEBUILDER> Will WORK for Spruce> Long flights=2C smooth air=2C and soft landings=2C> GliderMike=2C aka Mike Glasgow> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 416#310416> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________