Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
Anyone have any good data on Cabane strut length.- Can't find dimensions on the drawings.Tom B.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
We have the plans now, and are going though them in an effort to better understandthe construction process and to save a little more money. This question came up:Well I know so and so, who is building a short fues. piet. He says that he hasa different wing rib layout, and that layout will provide a better glide ratiothat the one in the plans. So and so says that the original one drops like arock.This is kinda frustrating for me as I want to stick with the plans. Every aircrafthas a glide ratio, and you best distance over alt. drop will depend on airdensity, weight, ect. I also think that this other wing must also have a thicker cord, thus creatingmore lift, which would produce more drag. More drag equals less airspeed. My thinking is that if it was good enough for Mr. Pietenpol, it's going to be goodenough for me.Anyway. What other wing could my Dad's buddy be talking about?What is the glide ratio of the long fues. corvair powered Piet?Is there any problem with the aircraft "dropping like a rock" if the engine quits?I would think no more than any other aircraft, right?Please educate me on these other wing designs people are using, and why you wouldconsider going away from what works, IE the plans. Thanks for the help guysJoeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:24:53 -0400
We have the plans now, and are going though them in an effort to better understandthe construction process and to save a little more money. This question came up:Well I know so and so, who is building a short fues. piet. He says that he hasa different wing rib layout, and that layout will provide a better glide ratiothat the one in the plans. So and so says that the original one drops like arock.This is kinda frustrating for me as I want to stick with the plans. Every aircrafthas a glide ratio, and you best distance over alt. drop will depend on airdensity, weight, ect. I also think that this other wing must also have a thicker cord, thus creatingmore lift, which would produce more drag. More drag equals less airspeed. My thinking is that if it was good enough for Mr. Pietenpol, it's going to be goodenough for me.Anyway. What other wing could my Dad's buddy be talking about?What is the glide ratio of the long fues. corvair powered Piet?Is there any problem with the aircraft "dropping like a rock" if the engine quits?I would think no more than any other aircraft, right?Please educate me on these other wing designs people are using, and why you wouldconsider going away from what works, IE the plans. Thanks for the help guysJoeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 16:24:53 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Made about 200 wing rib gussets today on Labor day. :DRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Made about 200 wing rib gussets today on Labor day. :DRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
Joe,I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 since 2004,the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. glided 9 milesto the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touched the throttleuntil taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.All on a 74 Deg. day at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it liftsvery well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front.I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out check atBrodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is.Pieti LowellDon't archiveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Joe,I have flown the Pietenpol, a 4412 and the last wing is the Riblett 612 since 2004,the test that I tried from 3000 Ft, I shut the Ford to idle. glided 9 milesto the airport, had to side slip to the runway, an never touched the throttleuntil taxi time. And my wing is clipped 2 Ft.All on a 74 Deg. day at 850Ft. airport elevation. It is not slower, and it liftsvery well, even when I had a Werner 145 at 348 Lbs of engine up front.I have told this a number of times, If any one wants to check it out check atBrodhead 2011. Only if I can still get in , and remember where the throttle is.Pieti LowellDon't archiveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Joe,I really don't think the Riblett is going to give you a better glide ratio. Ifsomeone says it 'drops like a rock' they have probably never flown draggy airplanesfrom this era, and probably never flown a Piet. The Pietenpol wing isa fantastic flying airfoil. I regularly haul 420ish pounds of passenger weightand full fuel of 15 gallons. I have never felt concerned in any way in it'sclimb. The stall is gentle and VERY slow. On landing you just have to be readyfor it to give up it's flying speed quickly, just like any old draggy airplane.If you build it LIGHT and to the plans you will be thrilled with it!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Joe,I really don't think the Riblett is going to give you a better glide ratio. Ifsomeone says it 'drops like a rock' they have probably never flown draggy airplanesfrom this era, and probably never flown a Piet. The Pietenpol wing isa fantastic flying airfoil. I regularly haul 420ish pounds of passenger weightand full fuel of 15 gallons. I have never felt concerned in any way in it'sclimb. The stall is gentle and VERY slow. On landing you just have to be readyfor it to give up it's flying speed quickly, just like any old draggy airplane.If you build it LIGHT and to the plans you will be thrilled with it!Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Joe. By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, and Ifyou are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Joe. By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, and Ifyou are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
winds 33 gusting to 40 Piet is in the hangar.
--------Dan PlettN28WHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
winds 33 gusting to 40 Piet is in the hangar.
--------Dan PlettN28WHRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
> By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, andIf you are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.> Pieti Lowell> Ya that's what my Dad's friend said, and for some reason he's all worried aboutit. AGH stick with the plans.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
> By the way , If you look just over the wheel, spot a point on the ground, andIf you are flying a Pietenpol airfoil, that is about where you will land.> Pieti Lowell> Ya that's what my Dad's friend said, and for some reason he's all worried aboutit. AGH stick with the plans.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Joe,If you're ever planning to be in the Northeast Ohio area, please look me up. You'dbe welcome to get some stick time.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:55:23 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing education, please advise..
Joe,If you're ever planning to be in the Northeast Ohio area, please look me up. You'dbe welcome to get some stick time.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:55:23 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
NX41CC did not fly this Labor Day. Still in the hangar,working on squawks from the condition inspection. Youknow how it is... you pull the cowlings and covers towork on one thing and you end up doing half a dozen others.I decided to change the engine thrustline to eliminatesome of the left-turning tendency that the rudder trim tabdoes not correct, as well as a bit of nose-up tendency incruise. Probably not possible to ever fly the airplanehands-off, but I'm going to work on it. Using washers onthe engine mount bolts to put the engine at about 2 degreesdownthrust and 2 degrees right thrust. It was set prettymuch straight and level in both axes.I also had to remake one of the cooling eyebrow mountingtabs and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Fatiguecracks.We'll see how it flies... should be back in the air thisweekend. There is the Critter's Lodge fly-in the 24ththrough 26th of this month, then Reklaw October 22-24, andthen a fly-in at Kingsbury Aerodrome on November 13. Maybeable to make one or two of those.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
NX41CC did not fly this Labor Day. Still in the hangar,working on squawks from the condition inspection. Youknow how it is... you pull the cowlings and covers towork on one thing and you end up doing half a dozen others.I decided to change the engine thrustline to eliminatesome of the left-turning tendency that the rudder trim tabdoes not correct, as well as a bit of nose-up tendency incruise. Probably not possible to ever fly the airplanehands-off, but I'm going to work on it. Using washers onthe engine mount bolts to put the engine at about 2 degreesdownthrust and 2 degrees right thrust. It was set prettymuch straight and level in both axes.I also had to remake one of the cooling eyebrow mountingtabs and the bracket that holds it to the engine. Fatiguecracks.We'll see how it flies... should be back in the air thisweekend. There is the Critter's Lodge fly-in the 24ththrough 26th of this month, then Reklaw October 22-24, andthen a fly-in at Kingsbury Aerodrome on November 13. Maybeable to make one or two of those.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
Joe,All of the airfoils currently being used will be suitable for the Piet, and theFC-10 - the original, is widely described in these pages.My Piet is being built using a three piece wing, with a center section baggagecompartment. The airfoil I've chosen is the Riblett 613.5, which will give me27% greater baggage compartment volume. If used for a wing tank, 27% greaterfuel volume... In a Piet, with such little room for storage, baggage, cockpitcovers, etc., increasing the size of a baggage compartment might be the mostuseful thing you can do to the craft. Since the plane is plans built, scratch built, and the philosophy of Mr. Pietenpolwas to try different things, like the Corvair, for example, why not use anotherairfoil if it provides what you want in the aircraft?Just my .02 worth.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:36:37 -0400 (EDT)
Joe,All of the airfoils currently being used will be suitable for the Piet, and theFC-10 - the original, is widely described in these pages.My Piet is being built using a three piece wing, with a center section baggagecompartment. The airfoil I've chosen is the Riblett 613.5, which will give me27% greater baggage compartment volume. If used for a wing tank, 27% greaterfuel volume... In a Piet, with such little room for storage, baggage, cockpitcovers, etc., increasing the size of a baggage compartment might be the mostuseful thing you can do to the craft. Since the plane is plans built, scratch built, and the philosophy of Mr. Pietenpolwas to try different things, like the Corvair, for example, why not use anotherairfoil if it provides what you want in the aircraft?Just my .02 worth.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:36:37 -0400 (EDT)
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "gtche98"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol> > I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on its gearand mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage, 3 piece > wing, and has an A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while. > It's been a 10 year project that the builder has lost interest in. > Unfortunately I couldn't get a lot of information due to spotty > cell phone reception but I'm going to call back later this week to > get more info. I may go look at it this weekend but if I do what > are some of the things I should look for? Are there some gotchas I > should keep an eye open for? I need help coming up with a > checklist and questions I should be asking so any help is appreciated.> Thanks.> Jamie> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 751#311751> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Subject: Pietenpol-List: What to look for in a 3/4 built Pietenpol> > I may go look at a partially built Pietenpol that sounds like it is on its gearand mostly covered. I think it is a short fuselage, 3 piece > wing, and has an A65 that has 800 hours but hasn't run in a while. > It's been a 10 year project that the builder has lost interest in. > Unfortunately I couldn't get a lot of information due to spotty > cell phone reception but I'm going to call back later this week to > get more info. I may go look at it this weekend but if I do what > are some of the things I should look for? Are there some gotchas I > should keep an eye open for? I need help coming up with a > checklist and questions I should be asking so any help is appreciated.> Thanks.> Jamie> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 751#311751> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Dan Yocum"
#yiv798603033 p {margin:0;}I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to sayif you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.Jim B.------ Original Message -----
#yiv798603033 p {margin:0;}I have many hours flying Cessna 150's, etc and just one ride in a Piet but from that ride and hours flying Cessna's I just have to sayif you believe the Piets glide ratio better than a 150's, well we have this bridge for sale here just South of us going to San Francisco.Jim B.------ Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Split Axel gear width
Original Posted By: "899PM"
I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the originalFC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane. But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much betterflying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theoryand opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip wherehe talks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FYI personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am sticking rathertenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded CrankSnappin' Corvair motors).--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Split Axel gear width
I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the originalFC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane. But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much betterflying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theoryand opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip wherehe talks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FYI personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am sticking rathertenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded CrankSnappin' Corvair motors).--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Split Axel gear width
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your owntrusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my searchof the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils(
)and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be agood choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on trussdesign for using these with a piet.Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, andam asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:33:17 -0500
For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your owntrusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my searchof the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils(
)and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be agood choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on trussdesign for using these with a piet.Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, andam asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 09:33:17 -0500Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib drawing
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "ALAN LYSCARS"
Gary, et al,When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc., I made asolid model of the entire wing to set things up.My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag and anti-dragwires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting required. SomePiets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut to make room for thedrag wires, and either above or below the cut, there is a splice. Alternatively,some builders have rib spacing of 11 to 13 inches, rather than the plan specifieddim. of 12 in. This took several extra hours of time, but the resultis clearance all around the truss pieces.I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag ... __________
Gary, et al,When I took it upon myself to develop the truss pieces, angles, etc., I made asolid model of the entire wing to set things up.My GA30-613.5 Rib Drawing has truss pieces laid out so that the drag and anti-dragwires fit entirely within the trusses without any cutting required. SomePiets - and other wings, as well - have truss pieces cut to make room for thedrag wires, and either above or below the cut, there is a splice. Alternatively,some builders have rib spacing of 11 to 13 inches, rather than the plan specifieddim. of 12 in. This took several extra hours of time, but the resultis clearance all around the truss pieces.I've attached a couple of jpegs that show the layout.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/drag ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: tkreiner
Tom,Following your narrative with great interest; "pegs" didn't show up.Al Lyscars ----- Original Message -----
Tom,Following your narrative with great interest; "pegs" didn't show up.Al Lyscars ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Jack"
Al,Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics forums?I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...Let me know.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Al,Are you reading the email summary, or looking at the actual Matronics forums?I'm able to see the jpegs large as can be...Let me know.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: tkreiner
Tom,I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't see an attachment on your post.Al ----- Original Message -----
Tom,I'm plugged into the piet list to receive all mail as it's sent. Didn't see an attachment on your post.Al ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
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________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:01:22 -0500
RGlkIHlvdSBzY3JvbGwgdG8gdGhlIGJvdHRvbT8gSSBvZnRlbiBmb3JnZXQgdG8gZG8gdGhhdC4uLg0KDQpHYXJ5IEJvb3RoZQ0KU2VudCBvbiB0aGUgU3ByaW50riBOb3cgTmV0d29yayBmcm9tIG15IEJsYWNrQmVycnmuDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiQUxBTiBMWVNDQVJTIiA8YWx5c2NhcnNAbXlmYWlycG9pbnQubmV0Pg0KU2VuZGVyOiBvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KRGF0ZTogV2VkLCA4IFNlcCAyMDEwIDEzOjMzOjA1IA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KUmVwbHktVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21TdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IFJlOiBXaW5nIGVkdWNhdGlvbiwgcGxlYXNlIGFkdmlzZS4uDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgYSBtdWx0aS1wYXJ0IG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gTUlNRSBmb3JtYXQuDQoNCg=________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:01:22 -0500
> ** Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Molto bene Gracia Dan,Al ----- Original Message -----
Molto bene Gracia Dan,Al ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
The only change I made in the gear was to add brakes. In doing so I made my hubsso that the center of the rim was offset by 2" outboard to allow room for thedrum. In order to allow for the wider hubs I lengthened each axle by 2". This opened my gear tread to 60". In using 19" rims it may seem a bit tall andnarrow but it really has never presented a problem.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
The only change I made in the gear was to add brakes. In doing so I made my hubsso that the center of the rim was offset by 2" outboard to allow room for thedrum. In order to allow for the wider hubs I lengthened each axle by 2". This opened my gear tread to 60". In using 19" rims it may seem a bit tall andnarrow but it really has never presented a problem.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: shad bell
Dan,You are correct on the cabane length, I left mine as they were on the drawingsand found that when I went to the 612, it required a lot of forward stick pressureto hold straight and level,at speeds over 70.So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the theforward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complexthan one thinks.Pieti LowellDon't archive] For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your owntrusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my searchof the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils( )and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be agood choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on trussdesign for using these with a piet. Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, andam asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 811#311811[/quote]-- Dan YocumFermilab 630.840.6509yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."[/quote]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:45:06 -0700 (PDT)
Dan,You are correct on the cabane length, I left mine as they were on the drawingsand found that when I went to the 612, it required a lot of forward stick pressureto hold straight and level,at speeds over 70.So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten the theforward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complexthan one thinks.Pieti LowellDon't archive] For those using the GA30-612 or GA30-613.5 airfoils, are you designing your owntrusses, or are there standard truss designs for these airfoils? In my searchof the archives, I have learned how to use the proper names of the airfoils(
)and I have found information that would indicate that a 613.5 may be agood choice for me (at 225lbs). Unfortunately, I have found nothing on trussdesign for using these with a piet. Thanks for any insight. I hope to start my ribs before the end of the year, andam asking myself the same questions that Joe is asking. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 811#311811[/quote]-- Dan YocumFermilab 630.840.6509yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."[/quote]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 17:45:06 -0700 (PDT)Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Jack"
> So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten thethe forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complexthan one thinks. > Pieti Lowell I vote for making the rear cabanes 1" longer, rather than making the front onesshorter. This will give a little bit more room for the passenger who has tosqueeze himself into the front office. But on the other hand, no additional streamline tubing material will be requiredif you were to shorten the front cabanes instead... The end result will yieldthe required angle of incidence whichever method you choose.--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> So my questions to you guys, which would be better and or easier, shorten thethe forward or lengthen the rear cabanes to remain at 1 degree. It is more complexthan one thinks. > Pieti Lowell I vote for making the rear cabanes 1" longer, rather than making the front onesshorter. This will give a little bit more room for the passenger who has tosqueeze himself into the front office. But on the other hand, no additional streamline tubing material will be requiredif you were to shorten the front cabanes instead... The end result will yieldthe required angle of incidence whichever method you choose.--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By:> yocum(at)fnal.gov
Keep in mind that the 150 is substantially different than a 152. The flaps are consederably larger and produce much more drag. Having a lot of time teaching in 150s I can say that with anything more than 10deg of flaps the glide isn't very good. With full flaps a 150 will not climb even with full power! Flaps off is a whole other ball game. They float forever. Not having flown a piet I can't compare=2C but with 20deg I would say a 150 glides like a tripacer with no flaps...not very well.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 08:44:29 -0500
Keep in mind that the 150 is substantially different than a 152. The flaps are consederably larger and produce much more drag. Having a lot of time teaching in 150s I can say that with anything more than 10deg of flaps the glide isn't very good. With full flaps a 150 will not climb even with full power! Flaps off is a whole other ball game. They float forever. Not having flown a piet I can't compare=2C but with 20deg I would say a 150 glides like a tripacer with no flaps...not very well.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 08:44:29 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Jim Boyer
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By:> boyerjrb(at)comcast.net
yes it does. As my description of floats forever indicates. Lowell was saying that a Piet glides like a 150 with 20deg of flap. And from what I get from talking with pieters (new word) that sounds about right.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 15:01:35 +0000
yes it does. As my description of floats forever indicates. Lowell was saying that a Piet glides like a 150 with 20deg of flap. And from what I get from talking with pieters (new word) that sounds about right.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 15:01:35 +0000
> Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "j_dunavin"
Hi Michael,If you are referring to the jury strut material near the bottom of the page, thestuff with the .375" minor axis dimension, I personally would not use thisfor the braces that go from the top of the cabane to the engine mounts. It mightbe strong enough in tension, but if the wing were to somehow try to shiftforward in the event of a crash (ask William Wynne about it), those thin alloystruts would buckle and collapse far too easily. Just my non-professional opinionon the matter. I would choose to use the same size material as the cabanesthemselves for peace of mind...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Hi Michael,If you are referring to the jury strut material near the bottom of the page, thestuff with the .375" minor axis dimension, I personally would not use thisfor the braces that go from the top of the cabane to the engine mounts. It mightbe strong enough in tension, but if the wing were to somehow try to shiftforward in the event of a crash (ask William Wynne about it), those thin alloystruts would buckle and collapse far too easily. Just my non-professional opinionon the matter. I would choose to use the same size material as the cabanesthemselves for peace of mind...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Doug Dever
> I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the originalFC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane.But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much betterflying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theoryand opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip where hetalks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FY> > I personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am stickingrather tenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded CrankSnappin' Corvair motors).Billy,I checked out the video, and he says that he is also getting better cruse speedas well? He really makes it sound like this wing design is the best option fora piet. I mean he even states that he can pull full back elevator with fullthrottle and climb? Sounds like i should invest some more thought into this other design. Being the guy that I am though I am having some reservation as the plans work andhave worked for so long. But like someone else said... Even BP would have triedsomething different if he though it would be better.Where can I find:A) Rib lay out?B) full wig dinesons, with spars, ailerons, and attachment points? Or is the generalwing the same... just different ribs?Urbana hu? Man us northern IL guys got to get together. ( *head scratch*... Iguess that's why there is Broadhead hu? )Anyway I'm with ya on the Corvair motor.OO that's another question:With the extra HP from the corvair motor, would we benefit as much from the Ribletdesign, as from someone who was using a model A or continental?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> I think what Pieti is saying is that if you build your plane with the originalFC-10 airfoil that you will have a perfectly serviceable, good flying plane.But if you substitute the GA30-612 Riblett airfoil, you will have a much betterflying airplane. Based on his experience (lots of it), and not just theoryand opinion, I'm inclined to believe what he has to say. Here's a clip where hetalks about the merits of the Riblett airfoils and his experience with them...> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHHnzw1V5FY> > I personally plan to build the 612 airfoil for mine, otherwise I am stickingrather tenaciously to the plans (aside from using one of those confounded CrankSnappin' Corvair motors).Billy,I checked out the video, and he says that he is also getting better cruse speedas well? He really makes it sound like this wing design is the best option fora piet. I mean he even states that he can pull full back elevator with fullthrottle and climb? Sounds like i should invest some more thought into this other design. Being the guy that I am though I am having some reservation as the plans work andhave worked for so long. But like someone else said... Even BP would have triedsomething different if he though it would be better.Where can I find:A) Rib lay out?B) full wig dinesons, with spars, ailerons, and attachment points? Or is the generalwing the same... just different ribs?Urbana hu? Man us northern IL guys got to get together. ( *head scratch*... Iguess that's why there is Broadhead hu? )Anyway I'm with ya on the Corvair motor.OO that's another question:With the extra HP from the corvair motor, would we benefit as much from the Ribletdesign, as from someone who was using a model A or continental?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner
Hi Joe,The only thing that changes when using the Riblett airfoils over the FC-10 is theshape of the rib itself. Nothing else about the wing design changes. Youcan use the same size spars, the length of the ailerons does not change, samewingspan (although Pieti Lowell's is a little shorter than standard), etc... The coordinates for the Riblett airfoils have been discussed and published hereon the list many times, use the search function and it should turn up a spreadsheetwith the Riblett GA30-612, GA30-613.5, and the FC-10. The Riblett airfoils should be just as good for the Corvair engine powered Pietsas it is for the Ford or Continental/Lycoming/Franklin powered ones. Where in IL are you located?--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Hi Joe,The only thing that changes when using the Riblett airfoils over the FC-10 is theshape of the rib itself. Nothing else about the wing design changes. Youcan use the same size spars, the length of the ailerons does not change, samewingspan (although Pieti Lowell's is a little shorter than standard), etc... The coordinates for the Riblett airfoils have been discussed and published hereon the list many times, use the search function and it should turn up a spreadsheetwith the Riblett GA30-612, GA30-613.5, and the FC-10. The Riblett airfoils should be just as good for the Corvair engine powered Pietsas it is for the Ford or Continental/Lycoming/Franklin powered ones. Where in IL are you located?--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Has she got a sister ?Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Has she got a sister ?Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Doug Dever
Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating , ordoes that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know, if it also canbe restarted, just in case Palmyra is too far away , I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking,Maybe a video would prove some of my claims,.By the way, the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front sidethat makes a shape as sexy as they come.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating , ordoes that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know, if it also canbe restarted, just in case Palmyra is too far away , I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking,Maybe a video would prove some of my claims,.By the way, the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front sidethat makes a shape as sexy as they come.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Original Posted By:> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
Yes=2C Lowell=2C you will. It's just about the same drag as a disc of the same diameter. Similar to setting a windmilling propeller to zero thrust when simulating an engine failure in a twin. Not quite as good=2C but beats a windmilling prop any day. even in my ultralight I noticed a difference.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Yes=2C Lowell=2C you will. It's just about the same drag as a disc of the same diameter. Similar to setting a windmilling propeller to zero thrust when simulating an engine failure in a twin. Not quite as good=2C but beats a windmilling prop any day. even in my ultralight I noticed a difference.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Original Posted By:> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
There is a certain revelution that when your prop is turning at that rev it makes it seem like there is a big piece of wood in front of the aircraft=2Clike a wall.Increase reves and it goes away=2Creduce revs and it goes away as well.Your prop makes much less drag when stopped. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
There is a certain revelution that when your prop is turning at that rev it makes it seem like there is a big piece of wood in front of the aircraft=2Clike a wall.Increase reves and it goes away=2Creduce revs and it goes away as well.Your prop makes much less drag when stopped. > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
How were you planning on making these louvers? I had given thought to getting somein the sides of my lower cowl,and may some day more for looks but not sureI could do any kind of a decent job by hand. I have seen advertisements in carmagazines for people who do such things and I'm guessing they have some kindof special tool for it. also I am not sure how well light aluminum would holdthe shape and not develop cracks pretty fast. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
How were you planning on making these louvers? I had given thought to getting somein the sides of my lower cowl,and may some day more for looks but not sureI could do any kind of a decent job by hand. I have seen advertisements in carmagazines for people who do such things and I'm guessing they have some kindof special tool for it. also I am not sure how well light aluminum would holdthe shape and not develop cracks pretty fast. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Will it be to my advantage to turn the radiator side ways to gain 10 inches ofair space under the wing and also not to interfere with air over the wing withthe radiator?. BP built 3 such horizontal radiator installation.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:01:48 -0400
Will it be to my advantage to turn the radiator side ways to gain 10 inches ofair space under the wing and also not to interfere with air over the wing withthe radiator?. BP built 3 such horizontal radiator installation.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:01:48 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: airlion
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Just a few more questions:I really like the idea of incorporating a "gap less" aileron on our wing as seenhere:https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpol ... ackagesHow does the riblet design work in the ailerons? Do i still need gap tape? Wouldthis kit work on the new wing?And to summarize the riblet wing will provide better stall, lift, and cruise performance?Thanks for the helpJoeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Just a few more questions:I really like the idea of incorporating a "gap less" aileron on our wing as seenhere:https://sites.google.com/site/pietenpol ... ackagesHow does the riblet design work in the ailerons? Do i still need gap tape? Wouldthis kit work on the new wing?And to summarize the riblet wing will provide better stall, lift, and cruise performance?Thanks for the helpJoeRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
kevinpurtee wrote:> > - Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then tothe fuel tank filler on top of wing,> - Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.> > > AxelI would add that you should be very careful with your connection to the gas cap.I have heard of engine stoppage and even depletion of fuel out the cap dueto improper venting of wing tanks. There is a lot of negative pressure there.You could extend your range by a negative 2 hrs especially if the temporaryfuel line came loose.My $0.02Jon--------Jon Coxwell GN-1 BuilderRecycle and preserve the planetRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
kevinpurtee wrote:> > - Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then tothe fuel tank filler on top of wing,> - Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.> > > AxelI would add that you should be very careful with your connection to the gas cap.I have heard of engine stoppage and even depletion of fuel out the cap dueto improper venting of wing tanks. There is a lot of negative pressure there.You could extend your range by a negative 2 hrs especially if the temporaryfuel line came loose.My $0.02Jon--------Jon Coxwell GN-1 BuilderRecycle and preserve the planetRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Original Posted By:> billspiet(at)sympatico.ca
The problem I see is not the airfoil. This was discussed in depth about a year ago. I brought up the idea of putting a piet on floats. It does not have enough wing area. I have a fair amout of short wing Piper experience on floats and they make good speed boats. If you compare a similar weight airplane=2C the J-3 cub. The cub climbs better and is a good performer on floats with 65hp. It certainly doesn't have a superior airfoil I don't believe. But it does have 178sqft of wing area compaired to the piet's 145 or so. Incidentally the tripacer is a good performer on floats if you extend the wing. You must extend the fuse. also. I believe to compensate for more pitching moment. (Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.) I feel pretty comfortable doing the loading analysis for the longer wing=2C but not the aerodynamics. I personally think any improvement with a new airfoil would be marginal. (Yes I have my armor on for that statement) Lowell also has more hp as well as the Riblett airfoil. SO=2C if you have to extend the fuse as well as the wing=2C then you don't have a Pietenpol any more. I say if you want more permance...get more horse power. To quote my dad=2C "You can never have to much horse power." Hence the reason for 220hp in our 172. Didn't cruise much faster than a stock 172. But=2C it would lift off at 45mph and climb 2000ft/min. far more performance than changing the airfoil. Just my long winded .02Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
The problem I see is not the airfoil. This was discussed in depth about a year ago. I brought up the idea of putting a piet on floats. It does not have enough wing area. I have a fair amout of short wing Piper experience on floats and they make good speed boats. If you compare a similar weight airplane=2C the J-3 cub. The cub climbs better and is a good performer on floats with 65hp. It certainly doesn't have a superior airfoil I don't believe. But it does have 178sqft of wing area compaired to the piet's 145 or so. Incidentally the tripacer is a good performer on floats if you extend the wing. You must extend the fuse. also. I believe to compensate for more pitching moment. (Someone correct me on this if I'm wrong.) I feel pretty comfortable doing the loading analysis for the longer wing=2C but not the aerodynamics. I personally think any improvement with a new airfoil would be marginal. (Yes I have my armor on for that statement) Lowell also has more hp as well as the Riblett airfoil. SO=2C if you have to extend the fuse as well as the wing=2C then you don't have a Pietenpol any more. I say if you want more permance...get more horse power. To quote my dad=2C "You can never have to much horse power." Hence the reason for 220hp in our 172. Didn't cruise much faster than a stock 172. But=2C it would lift off at 45mph and climb 2000ft/min. far more performance than changing the airfoil. Just my long winded .02Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: "Pieti Lowell"
Going strictly by intuition and not from experience, I would say that the 2 degreecamber angle would be fine, but I don't think that you want any toe-in ortoe-out between the wheels. From what I've read, this is where the Jenny stylewood gear has a slight advantage in that it can not have any toe-in or toe-outunless the axle has taken a severe impact and it's bent. However, in thiscase something else in your airplane is probably bent or broken too, renderingthe toe-in or toe-out as something of secondary importance at that point...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Going strictly by intuition and not from experience, I would say that the 2 degreecamber angle would be fine, but I don't think that you want any toe-in ortoe-out between the wheels. From what I've read, this is where the Jenny stylewood gear has a slight advantage in that it can not have any toe-in or toe-outunless the axle has taken a severe impact and it's bent. However, in thiscase something else in your airplane is probably bent or broken too, renderingthe toe-in or toe-out as something of secondary importance at that point...--------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By: shad bell
I have used a product that the sailors have used for years to give excellent adhesionand sealing qualities, and ease of application, called Rip Stop, 2" wideapplied from below with elevator up.Riblett full length wings will be a surprise to me, if the next wing flown doesnot impress it's new owner.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:18:07 -0700 (PDT)
I have used a product that the sailors have used for years to give excellent adhesionand sealing qualities, and ease of application, called Rip Stop, 2" wideapplied from below with elevator up.Riblett full length wings will be a surprise to me, if the next wing flown doesnot impress it's new owner.Pieti LowellRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:18:07 -0700 (PDT)
> Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Original Posted By:> Lowellcfrank(at)yahoo.com
Lowell=2CI'm suprised you didn't hit me harder. I was in full armor. I don't know any of you except through this list so I don't hit very hard either. I just think your hp makes more difference (I will be looking you up when I get to the Model A stage) than the airfoil. The NACA2412? on the 172 is not a high lift airfoil but=2C you can put a leading edge cuff on it and droop the ailerons turning it into a high lift airfoil and I'll just add 33% more hp and I'll win every time. Now... I always wondered what doing both would do. May turn into a cheap fast helicopter!Not stirring the pot too much.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
Lowell=2CI'm suprised you didn't hit me harder. I was in full armor. I don't know any of you except through this list so I don't hit very hard either. I just think your hp makes more difference (I will be looking you up when I get to the Model A stage) than the airfoil. The NACA2412? on the 172 is not a high lift airfoil but=2C you can put a leading edge cuff on it and droop the ailerons turning it into a high lift airfoil and I'll just add 33% more hp and I'll win every time. Now... I always wondered what doing both would do. May turn into a cheap fast helicopter!Not stirring the pot too much.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education=2C please advise..
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing education, please advise..
Original Posted By:> yocum(at)fnal.gov
Original Posted By: Harvey Rule
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> com>> > Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C if it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.> Pieti Lowell> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 236#312236> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> com>> > Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C if it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.> Pieti Lowell> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 236#312236> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Bungee to Spring Conversion Complete
Original Posted By: "kevinpurtee"
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> com>> > Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C if it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.> Pieti Lowell> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 236#312236> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bungee to Spring Conversion Complete
> To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> com>> > Is it possible to get a better glide ratio if I stop the prop from rotating =2C or does that make it worse ? I will try it and let you all know=2C if it also can be restarted=2C just in case Palmyra is too far away =2C I'm Thinking. I'm Thinking=2C Maybe a video would prove some of my claims=2C.> By the way=2C the 612 airfoil has under camber and a gorgeous fuller front side that makes a shape as sexy as they come.> Pieti Lowell> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 236#312236> > > > > > > ============================================> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bungee to Spring Conversion Complete