Original Posted By: airlion
Very nice Shad! One question...what size/material struts did you use for the cabane to engine mounts? Michael PerezKaretaker Aerowww.karetakeraero.com=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 13:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System (ERFS)to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump maynot have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to thefuel tank filler on top of wing,- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.Assumptions:- No permanent mods to the airplane,- No passengers,- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,- Used only on long cross-country flights.We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned aboutthe gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I takeoff. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware andplumbing is acceptable to me.I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.Thanks,Axel--------Kevin PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I'd like your thoughts on ways to add the redneck Extended Range Fuel System (ERFS)to the airplane. The design I'm currently considering is as follows:- A 3 to 5 gallon can securely strapped in the front seat,- A small pump driven by two D batteries with a dead-man switch (this pump maynot have enough power, but it was only $13 so I felt it worth the experiment),- Hoses secured appropriately from can to pump, up and over the wing, then to thefuel tank filler on top of wing,- Modified gas cap to accept the inlet line.Assumptions:- No permanent mods to the airplane,- No passengers,- Portable and removable in 30 minutes with hand tools,- Used only on long cross-country flights.We have an outstanding safety culture on this list. If you're concerned aboutthe gas, be advised that I fly with 11 gallons 6" above my head every time I takeoff. A well-secured auxillary tank with equally well-secured hardware andplumbing is acceptable to me.I welcome any suggestions or ideas to do it better.Thanks,Axel--------Kevin PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kevin,When I put the smoke system in my Pietenpol, I used a 3 gallon portable fueltank for an outboard motor, which I purchased at West Marine. If fitsperfectly on the floorboard between the front rudder pedals, and is securedby using a bungee cord stretched over the tank behind the filler neck andattached to a pair of eyebolts in the ash crossmember behind the rudderpedals. Here is the website for the fuel tank:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... Num=10444I think I would use a tank such as this rather than a can. It has a gagebuilt in, has a good sealing cap and a closeable vent. If you use anoutboard type fuel line, it also has a quick disconnect and a priming bulb,to get the fuel from the tank to your pump. I think I would use your maintank until you have flown out at least 3 gallons, then use this tank tore-fill the main tank.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Kevin,When I put the smoke system in my Pietenpol, I used a 3 gallon portable fueltank for an outboard motor, which I purchased at West Marine. If fitsperfectly on the floorboard between the front rudder pedals, and is securedby using a bungee cord stretched over the tank behind the filler neck andattached to a pair of eyebolts in the ash crossmember behind the rudderpedals. Here is the website for the fuel tank:http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... Num=10444I think I would use a tank such as this rather than a can. It has a gagebuilt in, has a good sealing cap and a closeable vent. If you use anoutboard type fuel line, it also has a quick disconnect and a priming bulb,to get the fuel from the tank to your pump. I think I would use your maintank until you have flown out at least 3 gallons, then use this tank tore-fill the main tank.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: shad bell
RE: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kevin,When you get that extra tank figgered out, you'll need the civilian versionof the Human Element Range Extender.Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear20 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Kevin,When you get that extra tank figgered out, you'll need the civilian versionof the Human Element Range Extender.Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear20 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: "tkreiner"
Sealing your aileron, and elevator gaps is a Very Good Idea! The plane handlesmuch better. Jack, Mike, and others use piano hinge to get the effect. I'm usingstrips of Naugahyde and contact cement to perform the same thing. Heck, paintersand duct tape work well, too. Just my 2 cents. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Sep 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, j_dunavin wrote:> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Sealing your aileron, and elevator gaps is a Very Good Idea! The plane handlesmuch better. Jack, Mike, and others use piano hinge to get the effect. I'm usingstrips of Naugahyde and contact cement to perform the same thing. Heck, paintersand duct tape work well, too. Just my 2 cents. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Sep 15, 2010, at 10:46 PM, j_dunavin wrote:> ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
Kevin,Have you considered the pressure head requirement to pump fuel the distance fromfloor or seat to the wing tank?Personally I'd run a simple test to see if the batteries and pump had sufficientpower to do the job and exactly how many gallons they would pump prior to exhaustion.Kinda hard to swap batteries at 85 K and 2500ftJust my .02.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:20:45 -0400
Kevin,Have you considered the pressure head requirement to pump fuel the distance fromfloor or seat to the wing tank?Personally I'd run a simple test to see if the batteries and pump had sufficientpower to do the job and exactly how many gallons they would pump prior to exhaustion.Kinda hard to swap batteries at 85 K and 2500ftJust my .02.--------Tom KreinerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 08:20:45 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Thanks for the comments. Particularly like Gardiner's idea:).The total lift will be 4-5 feet. Not sure the $13 double D battery pump's goingto do that. Not much lost if it doesn't work, though. I thought about the hand squeeze bulb. I did the calc's and that looks like itwill take a LOOOONNNGGG time to work. Also not sure it'll have the power tolift that high. I do have one and will run the experiment.--------Kevin PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Thanks for the comments. Particularly like Gardiner's idea:).The total lift will be 4-5 feet. Not sure the $13 double D battery pump's goingto do that. Not much lost if it doesn't work, though. I thought about the hand squeeze bulb. I did the calc's and that looks like itwill take a LOOOONNNGGG time to work. Also not sure it'll have the power tolift that high. I do have one and will run the experiment.--------Kevin PurteeNX899KPAustin/Georgetown, TXRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kevin,I've been traveling the last couple days, and not sure I fully understoodyour inquiry, but the 601 guys use a little 'facet' pump, supplying positivecarb pressure from a low-wing wing tank, that would easily run off yourelectric system. Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear20 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Kevin,I've been traveling the last couple days, and not sure I fully understoodyour inquiry, but the 601 guys use a little 'facet' pump, supplying positivecarb pressure from a low-wing wing tank, that would easily run off yourelectric system. Gary BootheCool, CAPietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, Fuselage on gear20 ribs done-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: hvandervoo(at)aol.com
Joe,The "Riblett design" is simply an airfoil, not a whole wing design. You're reallyon your own to figure out all the little details.My assumption would be that the truss structure of a Riblett rib would mimic thestructure shown in the Pietenpol plans, and everything else (e.g. ailerons)would follow suit. Therefore, if the Pietenpol wing benefits from gap sealing,then the Riblett would also benefit in the same manner. The easiest method toseal the aileron gaps is to use a piano hinge, like Dan said.Your summary regarding the Riblett airfoils is basically what is being claimed.As far as I know, Pieti Lowell's is the only flying example of a Riblett airfoilon a Piet (I may be wrong on that, though), and he claims improved performance.Anecdotally, I overheard someone at Brodhead a couple of years ago saying thatthe Riblett airfoil will provide twice the lift, and double the cruise speed,and cut the stall speed in half... I took ALL of that with a BIG grain of salt.No doubt a different airfoil will result in different performance. Just howmuch different is the question, and whether it is an improvement is another. Itseems that there are quite a few new builders constructing their Piets withRiblett airfoils. So, if and when they get them flying, we'll have some more flyingexamples to refer to. As it stands now, it is really difficult to tell,since there can be so much difference in performance from one Piet to another,due to all the design changes that builders make, as well as powerplant, propellerand other choices available. Would be really good to have another builderor two do what Lowell did, and fly the exact same aircraft with the two differentairfoils, and compare the performances. But that means a LOT of work - mostof us have enough challenge just getting one wing built (right, Gary?).In short, either airfoil will fly the plane just fine. If you want "tried and true",stick with the plans. If you want to experiment with possible performanceimprovements, and are willing to work out more little details on your own, thengive the Riblett a go. (the choice of Riblett airfoils is up to you, as therewere two suggested by Mr. Riblett as being suitable for the Piet).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel SystemDate: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:17:32 -0400
Joe,The "Riblett design" is simply an airfoil, not a whole wing design. You're reallyon your own to figure out all the little details.My assumption would be that the truss structure of a Riblett rib would mimic thestructure shown in the Pietenpol plans, and everything else (e.g. ailerons)would follow suit. Therefore, if the Pietenpol wing benefits from gap sealing,then the Riblett would also benefit in the same manner. The easiest method toseal the aileron gaps is to use a piano hinge, like Dan said.Your summary regarding the Riblett airfoils is basically what is being claimed.As far as I know, Pieti Lowell's is the only flying example of a Riblett airfoilon a Piet (I may be wrong on that, though), and he claims improved performance.Anecdotally, I overheard someone at Brodhead a couple of years ago saying thatthe Riblett airfoil will provide twice the lift, and double the cruise speed,and cut the stall speed in half... I took ALL of that with a BIG grain of salt.No doubt a different airfoil will result in different performance. Just howmuch different is the question, and whether it is an improvement is another. Itseems that there are quite a few new builders constructing their Piets withRiblett airfoils. So, if and when they get them flying, we'll have some more flyingexamples to refer to. As it stands now, it is really difficult to tell,since there can be so much difference in performance from one Piet to another,due to all the design changes that builders make, as well as powerplant, propellerand other choices available. Would be really good to have another builderor two do what Lowell did, and fly the exact same aircraft with the two differentairfoils, and compare the performances. But that means a LOT of work - mostof us have enough challenge just getting one wing built (right, Gary?).In short, either airfoil will fly the plane just fine. If you want "tried and true",stick with the plans. If you want to experiment with possible performanceimprovements, and are willing to work out more little details on your own, thengive the Riblett a go. (the choice of Riblett airfoils is up to you, as therewere two suggested by Mr. Riblett as being suitable for the Piet).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel SystemDate: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 11:17:32 -0400
Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: airlion
Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: airlion
Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Auxillary Fuel System