Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Original Posted By: "Scott Knowlton "
This is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated controldevice on the entire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight and on the ground. -Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive force on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply during tightturns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very gusty landing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop. -The proper way to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constantly apply pressure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both feetrather than push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an manual transmission car. -I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of white ash or some other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny had) ratherthan make it out of stainless tubing.--- -Mike C. - =0A________________________________________________________________________________
This is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated controldevice on the entire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight and on the ground. -Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive force on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply during tightturns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very gusty landing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop. -The proper way to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constantly apply pressure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both feetrather than push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an manual transmission car. -I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of white ash or some other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny had) ratherthan make it out of stainless tubing.--- -Mike C. - =0A________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Re: Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member
Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
>Actually, the stresses induced on the rudder bar from the rudder are almost inconsequential. Since the ends of the rudder bar are only connected to the rudder by means of cables (if built to the plans), then only one end of the rudder bar (the end that is pulling on the rudder) can be loaded at a time (you can't push a rope).What you need to be aware of is the potential for the pilot to bend the rudder bar, by inadvertently pushing with both feet. The pilot will undoubtedly have both feet pressing against the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of uncoordinated footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of pushing on both sides of the rudder bar at the same time.Probably what you should do is take a scrap piece of the tubing you're using, the same length as the rudder bar, and duplicate the center pivot arrangement, and secure this bar to something solid. Then position yourself in a well secured seat located at the proper distance from the rudder bar, and see how difficult it is to bend the sample rudder bar. You may be surprised how little force it takes to bend the tube.There are very few metal parts in the plans that actually call for cro-moly steel, but the rudder bar is one. Methinks it is specified that way for a reason.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#332385le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member
>Actually, the stresses induced on the rudder bar from the rudder are almost inconsequential. Since the ends of the rudder bar are only connected to the rudder by means of cables (if built to the plans), then only one end of the rudder bar (the end that is pulling on the rudder) can be loaded at a time (you can't push a rope).What you need to be aware of is the potential for the pilot to bend the rudder bar, by inadvertently pushing with both feet. The pilot will undoubtedly have both feet pressing against the rudder bar at all times, and a bit of uncoordinated footwork, or panic can result in an excessive amount of pushing on both sides of the rudder bar at the same time.Probably what you should do is take a scrap piece of the tubing you're using, the same length as the rudder bar, and duplicate the center pivot arrangement, and secure this bar to something solid. Then position yourself in a well secured seat located at the proper distance from the rudder bar, and see how difficult it is to bend the sample rudder bar. You may be surprised how little force it takes to bend the tube.There are very few metal parts in the plans that actually call for cro-moly steel, but the rudder bar is one. Methinks it is specified that way for a reason.Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 5#332385le, List Admin.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seeking Dallas, TX Pietenpol member
Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]"
What KIND of assistance? I don't have a Piet...I'm in Fort Worth (think of it as one big mess all blurred together, Dallas andFort Worth and... oh... a dozen plus smaller cities.--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
What KIND of assistance? I don't have a Piet...I'm in Fort Worth (think of it as one big mess all blurred together, Dallas andFort Worth and... oh... a dozen plus smaller cities.--------Brad "DOMIT" SmithFirst rule of ground school: This is the ground... don't hit it going fast.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controlsThis is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated controldevice on the entire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight and on the ground.Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive force on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply during tightturns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very gusty landing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop.The proper way to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constantly apply pressure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both feetrather than push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an manual transmission car.I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of white ash or some other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny had) ratherthan make it out of stainless tubing.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 11:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controlsThis is one area where I would not cut corners and would most certainly use the 4130 as the rudder bar is THE most manipulated controldevice on the entire airplane and is constantly being used both in flight and on the ground.Stainless will work harden, fatigue and crack with repeated excessive force on both sides of the rudder bar (which all Pietenpol pilots apply during tightturns on the ground and in panic, surge situations during a very gusty landing in a crosswind or to prevent a ground loop.The proper way to fly any airplane (especially a taildragger) is to constantly apply pressure to BOTH rudders to provide positive feedback to both feetrather than push one and release the other like you would do in shifting an manual transmission car.I would be more comfortable making the rudder bar out of white ash or some other hardwood (like the WWI airplanes and Curtiss Jenny had) ratherthan make it out of stainless tubing.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2011 11:07:51 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controls
Original Posted By: Bill Church
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controlsDitto to what Bill said but make sure to excite your adrenal glands whilst testing!Scott Knowlton -----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Rudder bar and forward controlsDitto to what Bill said but make sure to excite your adrenal glands whilst testing!Scott Knowlton -----Original Message-----