Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle/Others Help
Pietenpol-List: Re: Jim Markle/Others Help
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I would not do it that way again. I would do the struts exactly the same way LarryWilliams did his. Two bolts, spaced a bit apart and no doubler plates. Someone mentioned that the welding process can possibly introduce a tiny bit oflocalized weakening in the integrity of the material. And that got me to wonderingif it was actually worth the trouble. Honestly, part of my motivationwas to have my brother, a master craftsman with anything welding related, bea part of the project.I've actually considered grinding them off but have decided to just leave wellenough alone.I did the math (with some help from a couple smart guys here on the list) and I'mcomfortable with the Carlson struts. Just wouldn't go to the trouble of doublingup for the bolt holes.I don't remember the thickness of the plates we welded on but would be glad togo measure if you want to know. I would also use something a bit thinner if Iwas going to weld on those plates again.JMRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:28:20 -0800 (PST)
I would not do it that way again. I would do the struts exactly the same way LarryWilliams did his. Two bolts, spaced a bit apart and no doubler plates. Someone mentioned that the welding process can possibly introduce a tiny bit oflocalized weakening in the integrity of the material. And that got me to wonderingif it was actually worth the trouble. Honestly, part of my motivationwas to have my brother, a master craftsman with anything welding related, bea part of the project.I've actually considered grinding them off but have decided to just leave wellenough alone.I did the math (with some help from a couple smart guys here on the list) and I'mcomfortable with the Carlson struts. Just wouldn't go to the trouble of doublingup for the bolt holes.I don't remember the thickness of the plates we welded on but would be glad togo measure if you want to know. I would also use something a bit thinner if Iwas going to weld on those plates again.JMRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2011 07:28:20 -0800 (PST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: Ryan M
Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: good post Jack Good post Jack and your points are very well taken. There was an Pietenpol built by a gent in Ohio out of white pine (years ago) and Elmer'sglue and it flew just fine for years until he had a stall-spin accident and put it into the trees at Brodhead. Only then were the inferior grades oflumber and glue discovered but until that point it flew just fine.My posts in this thread were to illuminate the simple fact that critical (and I think we could all agree that having any kind of flight control system troubleisn't desired under any circumstances and the rudder of course is even a critical ground control as well.) flight controls should be made of the bestmaterials and assembled with standard AN hardware, period. Anything less is the builder's choice but should something happen in the future (God forbid)where an inferior material caused an accident, injury, or death I don't want to be the one on the list who didn't say something to the builder, whoever it isand I voice my opinion about not test flying Mike's airplane on the list because I want it to be publicly noted that just because some of us have lots ofPietenpol hours we should seriously consider the risks of just jumping in to test fly a new ship that another person built unless you are very intimatewith the materials used, the level of craftsmanship, and any modifications that deviate from the plans that are non-cosmetic in nature.This is a wonderful list and there are a group of fantastically knowledgeable people on here with some incredible credentials and I for one as a technician(not an engineer by degree) look for solid, sound advice even now just to soak up this knowledge that is so freely shared among us. I believe that thisdiscussion deviated from the simple facts to an emotional pissing contest and for that I apologize for my part in the drama that is not normally part of thelist HOWEVER when I am asked by a builder to point out anything that looks slightly non-airworthy or questionable and I voice my thoughts (based on soundaircraft construction practices as outlined in all of the Tony Bingelis books and elsewhere) and the advice is ignored, discarded, and dismissed I tend to realize,as you said so well Jack that the builder has already made up his mind and I shouldn't waste my time in the future voicing concerns or thoughts about howto improve an assembly or make it safer or more reliable.Carry on all and keep making sawdust and fittings. There is NOTHING more exciting than to see a newPietenpol arrive on at Brodhead like we witnessed last year with Kevin Purtee and Dan Helsper's planes making their debut andI look forward to guys like Gene Rambo and Mike Perez making first time appearances there too in addition to anyone else whomight be closing in on the 8th and 9th innings of the building process !Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Subject: Pietenpol-List: good post Jack Good post Jack and your points are very well taken. There was an Pietenpol built by a gent in Ohio out of white pine (years ago) and Elmer'sglue and it flew just fine for years until he had a stall-spin accident and put it into the trees at Brodhead. Only then were the inferior grades oflumber and glue discovered but until that point it flew just fine.My posts in this thread were to illuminate the simple fact that critical (and I think we could all agree that having any kind of flight control system troubleisn't desired under any circumstances and the rudder of course is even a critical ground control as well.) flight controls should be made of the bestmaterials and assembled with standard AN hardware, period. Anything less is the builder's choice but should something happen in the future (God forbid)where an inferior material caused an accident, injury, or death I don't want to be the one on the list who didn't say something to the builder, whoever it isand I voice my opinion about not test flying Mike's airplane on the list because I want it to be publicly noted that just because some of us have lots ofPietenpol hours we should seriously consider the risks of just jumping in to test fly a new ship that another person built unless you are very intimatewith the materials used, the level of craftsmanship, and any modifications that deviate from the plans that are non-cosmetic in nature.This is a wonderful list and there are a group of fantastically knowledgeable people on here with some incredible credentials and I for one as a technician(not an engineer by degree) look for solid, sound advice even now just to soak up this knowledge that is so freely shared among us. I believe that thisdiscussion deviated from the simple facts to an emotional pissing contest and for that I apologize for my part in the drama that is not normally part of thelist HOWEVER when I am asked by a builder to point out anything that looks slightly non-airworthy or questionable and I voice my thoughts (based on soundaircraft construction practices as outlined in all of the Tony Bingelis books and elsewhere) and the advice is ignored, discarded, and dismissed I tend to realize,as you said so well Jack that the builder has already made up his mind and I shouldn't waste my time in the future voicing concerns or thoughts about howto improve an assembly or make it safer or more reliable.Carry on all and keep making sawdust and fittings. There is NOTHING more exciting than to see a newPietenpol arrive on at Brodhead like we witnessed last year with Kevin Purtee and Dan Helsper's planes making their debut andI look forward to guys like Gene Rambo and Mike Perez making first time appearances there too in addition to anyone else whomight be closing in on the 8th and 9th innings of the building process !Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
"Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=99t snap"It's just soooooooo hard to stay away from that subject.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
"Thank goodness the crankshaft didn=99t snap"It's just soooooooo hard to stay away from that subject.Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material