Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, muchless flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this pastJanuary) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So Icouldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments didget a bit testy.----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: brakes now
Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy. ----- Original Message -----
Jack Phillips, amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen, much less flown, an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy. ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: brakes now
Original Posted By: V Groah
Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find that onceagain I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I might be ableto pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in the discs from the5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers and have some brakesbut then reality set in and I discovered that the bolt circle in the bigger wheelswon't let that happen. so i guess I will once again fill and bleed the crittersand hope for a little stopping power.have any of you tried running theold expander bladder I guess they would be called brakes with success? I expectthey are from similar old Piper service since they bolted right up the theCub gear but they seem to have very little expansion with the newer style mastercylinders-maybe the small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to movethe segmented shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go backto the 5" wheels and tires I took off because the runway I use is very roughbut it may come to that. money is an issue. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Well after getting my carb back from D&G and getting it mounted I find that onceagain I am without brakes. I had a brainstorm yesterday that I might be ableto pull the drums out of my 1947 hayes 6" wheels and bolt in the discs from the5" wheels and make custom mount plates for my calipers and have some brakesbut then reality set in and I discovered that the bolt circle in the bigger wheelswon't let that happen. so i guess I will once again fill and bleed the crittersand hope for a little stopping power.have any of you tried running theold expander bladder I guess they would be called brakes with success? I expectthey are from similar old Piper service since they bolted right up the theCub gear but they seem to have very little expansion with the newer style mastercylinders-maybe the small piston just doesn't displace enough fluid to movethe segmented shoes out.I don't want to have to re-design the system or go backto the 5" wheels and tires I took off because the runway I use is very roughbut it may come to that. money is an issue. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: cncampbell(at)windstream.net
Jack=2C I do not want to sound in any way critical=2C but you mentioned the C word again.
Jack=2C I do not want to sound in any way critical=2C but you mentioned the C word again.
RE: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days now).Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C" word? Irealize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners - it's difficultto stay away from all of them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
I merely mentioned that I was still on a moratorium (for 17 more days now).Or were you referring my use of the work Crankshaft as a "C" word? Irealize there are many areas of concern for Corvair owners - it's difficultto stay away from all of them.Jack PhillipsNX899JP "Icarus Plummet"Raleigh, NC _____
Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
Original Posted By: "skellytown flyer"
Yes, I had the expandable bladder type brakes on a PA22 TriPacer that I converted to a PA20 taildragger. They worked really well, in fact they saved the plane when I was checking the guy out in it when he bought it from me. He said he was tail-wheel qualified but on our first takeoff (he was flying from the left seat and I was in the right seat -- fortunately I had put toe brakes on both sides) the plane almost got away from him on takeoff. I jumped on the right brake and got it straightened out before it ground looped. The brakes worked fine. We went to a field with wider runways and spent about 2 hours having him make takeoffs until he could handle the plane with no trouble. If having bladder type brakes is a solution to your problem, I recommend them. Chuck C.----- Original Message -----
Yes, I had the expandable bladder type brakes on a PA22 TriPacer that I converted to a PA20 taildragger. They worked really well, in fact they saved the plane when I was checking the guy out in it when he bought it from me. He said he was tail-wheel qualified but on our first takeoff (he was flying from the left seat and I was in the right seat -- fortunately I had put toe brakes on both sides) the plane almost got away from him on takeoff. I jumped on the right brake and got it straightened out before it ground looped. The brakes worked fine. We went to a field with wider runways and spent about 2 hours having him make takeoffs until he could handle the plane with no trouble. If having bladder type brakes is a solution to your problem, I recommend them. Chuck C.----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Jack, you're going to shoot me when I show up at Brodhead (probably next year) with a Corvair without the 5th bearing. I want to use the stock oil system and don't know how I would get oil to a fifth bearing. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
Original Posted By: "bradandlinda tds.net"
What? It starts with a C. --------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 16:20:55 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
What? It starts with a C. --------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 16:20:55 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes now
Pietenpol-List: Re: brakes now
Original Posted By: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
if those 4" tires were affordable I'd have went with them myself.I have seen thewheels sell for less than a hundred a set.but the tires I could find were manyhundred dollars for used ones.these 6" seem to roll so much better than the5:00x5".the style brakes I have- think it is 6 brake shoe segments in each wheelbrake.they probably are very expensive as well but i figured out how to cutsome thin shims and place under a couple segments to bring them in closer tothe drum. I got time this morning to go to the hangar and do some work-I figuredout that the short hoses i have going from th toe brake master cylindershave an upward curve so they can have plenty of flex through the rudder pedaltravel and I likely wasn't getting all the air bled out of it.I couldn't makea positive seal but I have a piece of small plastic fuel line clamped onto thespout of a pump type oil can and I unhooked the line at the brake and held thehose in the line fitting as tight as I could and pumped as hard and fast asI could to back fill into the master cylinders hopefully flushing any air pocketsout the top. hooked them back up and it felt like I has brakes at least withthe wheel jacked up.by then I had to leave and help an old fellow get to townand we had already had another fire north of town to add to the 121,000 acresthat they say have burned this week in Texas in the last week.I need to helpget another grass fire truck up and going before Monday when they say the windswill be howling again,- just another spring in the Texas panhandle.guess theplane will sit a while longer.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
if those 4" tires were affordable I'd have went with them myself.I have seen thewheels sell for less than a hundred a set.but the tires I could find were manyhundred dollars for used ones.these 6" seem to roll so much better than the5:00x5".the style brakes I have- think it is 6 brake shoe segments in each wheelbrake.they probably are very expensive as well but i figured out how to cutsome thin shims and place under a couple segments to bring them in closer tothe drum. I got time this morning to go to the hangar and do some work-I figuredout that the short hoses i have going from th toe brake master cylindershave an upward curve so they can have plenty of flex through the rudder pedaltravel and I likely wasn't getting all the air bled out of it.I couldn't makea positive seal but I have a piece of small plastic fuel line clamped onto thespout of a pump type oil can and I unhooked the line at the brake and held thehose in the line fitting as tight as I could and pumped as hard and fast asI could to back fill into the master cylinders hopefully flushing any air pocketsout the top. hooked them back up and it felt like I has brakes at least withthe wheel jacked up.by then I had to leave and help an old fellow get to townand we had already had another fire north of town to add to the 121,000 acresthat they say have burned this week in Texas in the last week.I need to helpget another grass fire truck up and going before Monday when they say the windswill be howling again,- just another spring in the Texas panhandle.guess theplane will sit a while longer.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Jack Phillips=2C amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen=2C much less flown=2C an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy.----- Original Message -----
Jack Phillips=2C amen and AMEN to your 9:59 AM post. I have never seen=2C much less flown=2C an airplane with a rudder bar. All my time (68 years this past January) has been in planes with rudder pedals and toe brakes. So I couldn't comment on rudder bars if I wanted to. Some of the comments did get a bit testy.----- Original Message -----
> Pietenpol-List: The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material
Original Posted By: airlion
> > > > > > The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material> > > > > Since Im on a self-imposed> moratorium (for 18 more> days)> on noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane,> Ive enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar> materials. However, I want to point out that we are> getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful> and downright mean as the RV-10 List has> gotten.> > I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that> Michael Perez had asked what materials people had used on> their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were advanced why> stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he> would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of> The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do> something and ask if there was a problem. Several> people would go to the trouble of> explaning exactly> why this might be a> problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed> with his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice,> but for validation for his choice.> > However, this was NOT the situation on the> rudder bar discussion. In this> situation, Ken Heide> initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for the> rudder bar instead of structural tubing. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used> .035 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY> CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for> advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in> several emails, I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set> up.> > I think we owe Michael an apology. It is> absolutely his choice what materials to use. It is our> choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or> not.> Thats the beauty of Experimental> Aviation. I suspect> that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials,> Michael will make it a point on his preflight inspections to> check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless steel is> not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically> without yielding and with no warning.> > The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the> Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel> welcome to ask questions and offer advice. There is> no credentialing to determine who is able to offer advice, so> it takes a while to figure out who knows what theyre talking about and who> doesnt. I dont think any of> us want to see this> list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask> questions or offer advice for fear of> being publicly> ridiculed.> > Remember, Were all Snowflakes. No two Pietenpols are identical, and> weve all made changes to the design (horror of> horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic> ignition, and an electrical> system to support it, to his pristine> Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in> my Pietenpol because I used stainless> steel (theres that word again) wool in the heat muffs for> carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental> cant run very well when it ingests a wad of> stainless steel. Thank> goodness the crankshaft didnt snap.> > Lets try to keep it friendly and remember that as> much as we love these airplanes, the really valuable thing> about being involved with Pietenpols is the friendships we> gain through this airplane. Some of the people> Ive met on this list I now count as my very best> friends.> > Only 141 more days until> Brodhead.> > Jack Phillips> > NX899JP Icarus Plummet (which plummeted through trying to> digest stainless steel)> > Raleigh, NC> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:49:08 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > > The Latest Buzz on Rudder Bar Material> > > > > Since Im on a self-imposed> moratorium (for 18 more> days)> on noting the dangers of using a Corvair to power an airplane,> Ive enjoyed the discussion about rudder bar> materials. However, I want to point out that we are> getting dangerously close to being as unfriendly, unhelpful> and downright mean as the RV-10 List has> gotten.> > I think a lot of us (myself included) felt that> Michael Perez had asked what materials people had used on> their rudder bars, and then, when reasons were advanced why> stainless steel should NOT be used, he announced that he> would use it anyway. This was often the behavior of> The Fisherman, of years past, who would propose to do> something and ask if there was a problem. Several> people would go to the trouble of> explaning exactly> why this might be a> problem, and then he would announce that he would proceed> with his way anyhow. He was not looking for advice,> but for validation for his choice.> > However, this was NOT the situation on the> rudder bar discussion. In this> situation, Ken Heide> initially asked about using cold rolled tubing (?) for the> rudder bar instead of structural tubing. Mr. Perez indicated that he had used> .035 wall stainless steel for his ALREADY> CONSTRUCTED rudder bar. He was neither asking for> advice or validation. As he said repeatedly, in> several emails, I feel comfortable with my rudder bar set> up.> > I think we owe Michael an apology. It is> absolutely his choice what materials to use. It is our> choice whether we would fly in such an airplane or> not.> Thats the beauty of Experimental> Aviation. I suspect> that after all the hoopla over his choice of materials,> Michael will make it a point on his preflight inspections to> check the rudder bar for cracking. Stainless steel is> not so bad a material that it will fail catastrophically> without yielding and with no warning.> > The great thing about this List (and I really feel that the> Pietenpol List is unique in this) is that people feel> welcome to ask questions and offer advice. There is> no credentialing to determine who is able to offer advice, so> it takes a while to figure out who knows what theyre talking about and who> doesnt. I dont think any of> us want to see this> list get so vitriolic that people are afraid to ask> questions or offer advice for fear of> being publicly> ridiculed.> > Remember, Were all Snowflakes. No two Pietenpols are identical, and> weve all made changes to the design (horror of> horrors, Dan Helsper is now adding electronic> ignition, and an electrical> system to support it, to his pristine> Model A Pietenpol). I myself had a forced landing in> my Pietenpol because I used stainless> steel (theres that word again) wool in the heat muffs for> carb heat. Even a reliable old Continental> cant run very well when it ingests a wad of> stainless steel. Thank> goodness the crankshaft didnt snap.> > Lets try to keep it friendly and remember that as> much as we love these airplanes, the really valuable thing> about being involved with Pietenpols is the friendships we> gain through this airplane. Some of the people> Ive met on this list I now count as my very best> friends.> > Only 141 more days until> Brodhead.> > Jack Phillips> > NX899JP Icarus Plummet (which plummeted through trying to> digest stainless steel)> > Raleigh, NC> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 09:49:08 -0800 (PST)