Original Posted By: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]"
Pietenpol-List: rigging
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Jack T. Textor"
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
I don't think BP used a laser level... Is this overkill????Dave-----Original Message-----
I don't think BP used a laser level... Is this overkill????Dave-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
RE: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"
Re: Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: Gregory Heath
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: riggingStand the tail wheel on a 3 feet high stool, eyeball the wing bottom and trailing edge of the wing from the center rear of the Airplane.A twist or difference between wings should be clearly visible.Jack, I do not have a # 7 screw in the longeron, Used a # 8, was not able to find a # 7.Hans************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: riggingStand the tail wheel on a 3 feet high stool, eyeball the wing bottom and trailing edge of the wing from the center rear of the Airplane.A twist or difference between wings should be clearly visible.Jack, I do not have a # 7 screw in the longeron, Used a # 8, was not able to find a # 7.Hans************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: rigging
Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: riggingKen, all-- My Pietenpol wing is rigged to have 3/8" washout at the aft end of the 3rd rib in from the end of each wing. Much like a J-3'swashout or Aeronca Champ's washout are set at. My ailerons were rigged to each have about 3/16" to a 1/4" droop on the ground withstick neutral. The older IA's at my field who helped me said this practice was commonplace on Cubs to DC-3's and the idea is that duringlevel cruise the airflow over the wings pushes the ailerons up to the neutral position taking out the bit of normal play in the aileron cable system.I believe my dihedral is about an inch at the wingtips. What I've found on my Piet is that an improperly rigged (twisted) horizontal stabilizer can make you think you have a wing (roll tendency) riggingissue. You can even have one elevator rigged a little higher or lower than the other and it makes like a wing issue so sorting these things outin your flight test period is helpful in whiling away the hours in your practice area. My Uncle Tony Bingelis has some excellent passages about rigging and flight testing our airplanes to get them to fly as hands-off and cleanly(there's a word you don't hear too often associated with Pietenpols) as possible and this relates to gentle and straightforward stalling characteristicsas well. The Piets I have flown with no dihedral fly just great but for hands off, folding charts, reaching down for wayward sunglasses on the cockpitfloor in flight kind of times the ones with a little dihedral don't wander as much in roll. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pietenpol-List: riggingKen, all-- My Pietenpol wing is rigged to have 3/8" washout at the aft end of the 3rd rib in from the end of each wing. Much like a J-3'swashout or Aeronca Champ's washout are set at. My ailerons were rigged to each have about 3/16" to a 1/4" droop on the ground withstick neutral. The older IA's at my field who helped me said this practice was commonplace on Cubs to DC-3's and the idea is that duringlevel cruise the airflow over the wings pushes the ailerons up to the neutral position taking out the bit of normal play in the aileron cable system.I believe my dihedral is about an inch at the wingtips. What I've found on my Piet is that an improperly rigged (twisted) horizontal stabilizer can make you think you have a wing (roll tendency) riggingissue. You can even have one elevator rigged a little higher or lower than the other and it makes like a wing issue so sorting these things outin your flight test period is helpful in whiling away the hours in your practice area. My Uncle Tony Bingelis has some excellent passages about rigging and flight testing our airplanes to get them to fly as hands-off and cleanly(there's a word you don't hear too often associated with Pietenpols) as possible and this relates to gentle and straightforward stalling characteristicsas well. The Piets I have flown with no dihedral fly just great but for hands off, folding charts, reaching down for wayward sunglasses on the cockpitfloor in flight kind of times the ones with a little dihedral don't wander as much in roll. Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush
Original Posted By: Greg Bacon
John - are you out there? Does anyone have contact info for John?Gary BootheNX308MB________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:13:11 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush
John - are you out there? Does anyone have contact info for John?Gary BootheNX308MB________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:13:11 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: John Dilatush
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
Original Posted By: Ken Bickers
I just added the wing adapter drawing.--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings to be covered next.Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:37:02 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
I just added the wing adapter drawing.--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings to be covered next.Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 11:37:02 -0700Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
Original Posted By: "Chris Rusch"
Ken,RE-PIET has zero dihedral, and no noticeable washout. The ailerons arerigged so that when neutral, they each rest about =BD=94 above the trailing edgeto give some =93false=94 washout. I have no idea if it works, but she fliesquite nicely and stalls EXTREMELY gently with zero tendency to fall offeither way. She=92s pretty neutral in a turn, but in a sharpish turn, shewill very gently want to tighten it up. Less than other Piets I=92ve flown,one of which was a bit scary, especially to the left=85Added some extended =93downtubes=94 on my exhaust today to try to get the smokeaway from the fuse/tail feathers. Got it off the fuse, but still getting onthe underside of the horz stab. Don=92t know how far down I=92d have to go tomake that stop. Guess I=92ll just keep extending until it stops and make thedecision whether to go with that or just not use smoke very often and cleanit up after each smoking session.On the ferry flight back to my home base yesterday, just as the airport hoveinto view, my engine started to vibrate. I throttled back and it smoothedout, then the vibration started at the lower rpm. I was really nervous,thinking my prop was falling off or my engine mount had broken. Trying tomake a nice kosher entrance to the pattern, she really started to vibrate soI just took her down, sideslipped in and made a surprisingly good landing onthe pavement for a frightened/frozen aviator with four asphalt landings inthe Piet to his credit.Shut her down, got out and fuel was dripping out of my carb and the sideswere covered with black sooty exhaust. Some foreign object had jammed thefloat open and she was funning SUPER rich. Great excuse to uncowl her todayand ck everything now that she=92s got five ours of flight time. Checked allthe strainers, took the bowl off the carb and cleared it, checked everythingelse, ran her up and went for a lovely fifteen minute flight over my house.Found one loose prop bolt and the rest definitely needed torque-ing. DON=92TSKIMP ON CHECKING YOUR PROP BOLTS ON WOODEN PROPS REGULARLY AND OFTEN. ITHINK 25 HRS ISN=92T ENOUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW PROP. My mechanic did itwith me and showed me how to properly safety wire the prop bolts. I musthave not done it just right so allow one to back out as it did.Everything looked good in there, including the dozen or so un-safetied hoseclamps=85Douwe.Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and yet stillkeeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case gpspoops?________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
Ken,RE-PIET has zero dihedral, and no noticeable washout. The ailerons arerigged so that when neutral, they each rest about =BD=94 above the trailing edgeto give some =93false=94 washout. I have no idea if it works, but she fliesquite nicely and stalls EXTREMELY gently with zero tendency to fall offeither way. She=92s pretty neutral in a turn, but in a sharpish turn, shewill very gently want to tighten it up. Less than other Piets I=92ve flown,one of which was a bit scary, especially to the left=85Added some extended =93downtubes=94 on my exhaust today to try to get the smokeaway from the fuse/tail feathers. Got it off the fuse, but still getting onthe underside of the horz stab. Don=92t know how far down I=92d have to go tomake that stop. Guess I=92ll just keep extending until it stops and make thedecision whether to go with that or just not use smoke very often and cleanit up after each smoking session.On the ferry flight back to my home base yesterday, just as the airport hoveinto view, my engine started to vibrate. I throttled back and it smoothedout, then the vibration started at the lower rpm. I was really nervous,thinking my prop was falling off or my engine mount had broken. Trying tomake a nice kosher entrance to the pattern, she really started to vibrate soI just took her down, sideslipped in and made a surprisingly good landing onthe pavement for a frightened/frozen aviator with four asphalt landings inthe Piet to his credit.Shut her down, got out and fuel was dripping out of my carb and the sideswere covered with black sooty exhaust. Some foreign object had jammed thefloat open and she was funning SUPER rich. Great excuse to uncowl her todayand ck everything now that she=92s got five ours of flight time. Checked allthe strainers, took the bowl off the carb and cleared it, checked everythingelse, ran her up and went for a lovely fifteen minute flight over my house.Found one loose prop bolt and the rest definitely needed torque-ing. DON=92TSKIMP ON CHECKING YOUR PROP BOLTS ON WOODEN PROPS REGULARLY AND OFTEN. ITHINK 25 HRS ISN=92T ENOUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW PROP. My mechanic did itwith me and showed me how to properly safety wire the prop bolts. I musthave not done it just right so allow one to back out as it did.Everything looked good in there, including the dozen or so un-safetied hoseclamps=85Douwe.Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and yet stillkeeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case gpspoops?________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing Rotator sketch
Original Posted By: "C N Campbell"
I attached it to the original message....Its shows it there...--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings to be covered next.Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I attached it to the original message....Its shows it there...--------NX321LRFully AssembledTail assembly and ailerons covered and painted.Wings to be covered next.Mitsubishi PoweredRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
Douwe, I have never used a GPS -- never even seen one except for the automobile variety. Well, my son is a marathoner and he has a gps in his watch to tell him how far he has run in practice sessions. I'm just a proponent of the old fashioned method of: draw a line on the sectional chart and watch the ground as it rolls by. If all of a sudden you see something that's not on the chart, start worrying. :>) (It might just be an old chart!)I think I'll stick to your method on the wing -- no dihedral and no washout. Seems this thread went by some months ago. In fact, I don't think I'll use any adjustment in the wing struts. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Douwe, I have never used a GPS -- never even seen one except for the automobile variety. Well, my son is a marathoner and he has a gps in his watch to tell him how far he has run in practice sessions. I'm just a proponent of the old fashioned method of: draw a line on the sectional chart and watch the ground as it rolls by. If all of a sudden you see something that's not on the chart, start worrying. :>) (It might just be an old chart!)I think I'll stick to your method on the wing -- no dihedral and no washout. Seems this thread went by some months ago. In fact, I don't think I'll use any adjustment in the wing struts. Chuck ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I would still vote for carburetor ice. Gene RamboOn Nov 9, 2012, at 2:39 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Ken,> > RE-PIET has zero dihedral, and no noticeable washout. The ailerons are rigged so that when neutral, they each rest about =C2=BD=9D above the trailing edge to give some =9Cfalse=9D washout. I have no idea if it works, but she flies quite nicely and stalls EXTREMELY gently with zero tendency to fall off either way. She=99s pretty neutral in a turn, but in a sharpish turn, she will very gently want to tighten it up. Less than other Piets I=99ve flown, one of which was a bit scary, especially to the left> > Added some extended =9Cdowntubes=9D on my exhaust today to try to get the smoke away from the fuse/tail feathers. Got it off the fuse, but still getting on the underside of the horz stab. Don=99t know how far down I=99d have to go to make that stop. Guess I=99ll just keep extending until it stops and make the decision whether to go with that or just not use smoke very often and clean it up after each smoking session.> > On the ferry flight back to my home base yesterday, just as the airport hove into view, my engine started to vibrate. I throttled back and it smoothed out, then the vibration started at the lower rpm. I was really nervous, thinking my prop was falling off or my engine mount had broken. Trying to make a nice kosher entrance to the pattern, she really started to vibrate so I just took her down, sideslipped in and made a surprisingly good landing on the pavement for a frightened/frozen aviator with four asphalt landings in the Piet to his credit.> > Shut her down, got out and fuel was dripping out of my carb and the sides were covered with black sooty exhaust. Some foreign object had jammed the float open and she was funning SUPER rich. Great excuse to uncowl her today and ck everything now that she=99s got five ours of flight time. Checked all the strainers, took the bowl off the carb and cleared it, checked everything else, ran her up and went for a lovely fifteen minute flight over my house.> > Found one loose prop bolt and the rest definitely needed torque-ing. DON=99T SKIMP ON CHECKING YOUR PROP BOLTS ON WOODEN PROPS REGULARLY AND OFTEN. I THINK 25 HRS ISN=99T ENOUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW PROP. My mechanic did it with me and showed me how to properly safety wire the prop bolts. I must have not done it just right so allow one to back out as it did.> > Everything looked good in there, including the dozen or so un-safetied hose clamps> > Douwe.> > Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and yet still keeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case gps poops?> > > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
I would still vote for carburetor ice. Gene RamboOn Nov 9, 2012, at 2:39 PM, "Douwe Blumberg" wrote:> Ken,> > RE-PIET has zero dihedral, and no noticeable washout. The ailerons are rigged so that when neutral, they each rest about =C2=BD=9D above the trailing edge to give some =9Cfalse=9D washout. I have no idea if it works, but she flies quite nicely and stalls EXTREMELY gently with zero tendency to fall off either way. She=99s pretty neutral in a turn, but in a sharpish turn, she will very gently want to tighten it up. Less than other Piets I=99ve flown, one of which was a bit scary, especially to the left> > Added some extended =9Cdowntubes=9D on my exhaust today to try to get the smoke away from the fuse/tail feathers. Got it off the fuse, but still getting on the underside of the horz stab. Don=99t know how far down I=99d have to go to make that stop. Guess I=99ll just keep extending until it stops and make the decision whether to go with that or just not use smoke very often and clean it up after each smoking session.> > On the ferry flight back to my home base yesterday, just as the airport hove into view, my engine started to vibrate. I throttled back and it smoothed out, then the vibration started at the lower rpm. I was really nervous, thinking my prop was falling off or my engine mount had broken. Trying to make a nice kosher entrance to the pattern, she really started to vibrate so I just took her down, sideslipped in and made a surprisingly good landing on the pavement for a frightened/frozen aviator with four asphalt landings in the Piet to his credit.> > Shut her down, got out and fuel was dripping out of my carb and the sides were covered with black sooty exhaust. Some foreign object had jammed the float open and she was funning SUPER rich. Great excuse to uncowl her today and ck everything now that she=99s got five ours of flight time. Checked all the strainers, took the bowl off the carb and cleared it, checked everything else, ran her up and went for a lovely fifteen minute flight over my house.> > Found one loose prop bolt and the rest definitely needed torque-ing. DON=99T SKIMP ON CHECKING YOUR PROP BOLTS ON WOODEN PROPS REGULARLY AND OFTEN. I THINK 25 HRS ISN=99T ENOUGH, ESPECIALLY WITH A NEW PROP. My mechanic did it with me and showed me how to properly safety wire the prop bolts. I must have not done it just right so allow one to back out as it did.> > Everything looked good in there, including the dozen or so un-safetied hose clamps> > Douwe.> > Ps. Does anyone have a good system for using gps when flying and yet still keeping track of their approximate position on a chart in the case gps poops?> > > > ============================================================================================================================================> ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Douwe,The macho stance is to just fly your Pietenpol with the technology thatBernard had available - chart and compass. While it can certainly be donethat way (I flew a J-3 Cub from Tennessee to Texas using just that), it isfoolish to turn your back on anything that can make flying safer. GPS is awonderful tool for increasing your situational awareness, and thereforeincreasing safety. Just don't allow yourself to get too dependent on it -they can and do fail.I made a mount for my Garmin GPSMap 196 that attaches to the right upperlongeron so it is out of the way and easy to see. I then use a kneeboardwith a TripTik chart (a series of 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 portions of a sectionalchart with my course printed on them). I can just turn over each page as Ifly onto the next and can keep track of my progress in case the GPS goesTango Uniform. I use Aeroplanner software to generate the triptiks, but Ithink there are several different companies out there that do the samething.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, VirginiaWhere I very nearly wiped out a DiamondStar DA-40 this evening when 5 deerran across the runway as we were rolling out after landing. The last onemissed the prop by less than a foot and then went UNDER the right wingtip. _____
Douwe,The macho stance is to just fly your Pietenpol with the technology thatBernard had available - chart and compass. While it can certainly be donethat way (I flew a J-3 Cub from Tennessee to Texas using just that), it isfoolish to turn your back on anything that can make flying safer. GPS is awonderful tool for increasing your situational awareness, and thereforeincreasing safety. Just don't allow yourself to get too dependent on it -they can and do fail.I made a mount for my Garmin GPSMap 196 that attaches to the right upperlongeron so it is out of the way and easy to see. I then use a kneeboardwith a TripTik chart (a series of 5-1/2 x 8-1/2 portions of a sectionalchart with my course printed on them). I can just turn over each page as Ifly onto the next and can keep track of my progress in case the GPS goesTango Uniform. I use Aeroplanner software to generate the triptiks, but Ithink there are several different companies out there that do the samething.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, VirginiaWhere I very nearly wiped out a DiamondStar DA-40 this evening when 5 deerran across the runway as we were rolling out after landing. The last onemissed the prop by less than a foot and then went UNDER the right wingtip. _____
Pietenpol-List: Dihedral and washout
Original Posted By: Matt Dralle