Original Posted By: Steven Dortch
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Pietenpol-List: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
In response to your question I should first explain my position. I am a first time builder in the relatively early stages of my build. Now to answer your questions I have already come across numerous "errors/omissions"with the plans. - a great source of frustration at times. One thing I've learned already is this - the "errors/omissions" usually crop upwhen you try to figure out the whole project at one - biting off too big a pieceto chew on at once. It seems best to break the project down into little pieces and that makes it moremanageable- then you can break apart that smaller step or assembly and figureout what you know and what you still need to find out to proceed. At this point I've found both this board, numerous print/web/human sources beneficial- and Andrew Pietenpol - the one who sells the plans is more than happyto answer many many questions by phone or email (ask me how I know...)Incidentally - as I progress I'm finding that many of those "omissions" in theplans don't actually exist - I just hadn't studied the plans enough or hadn'tfound that misplaced detail. part of this - I think - is this internet age we live in. So often the temptationis to give up and run to Google at the slightest problem -when most of thetimes spending even 5 more minutes studying the drawings would yield the infowe're looking for. Perhaps the biggest source of frustration one might find with the Pietenpol isthe many different ways people build them. Even the plans show 3 different fuselageoptions - 2 landing gear options - 2 wing options etc. Secondly - look at 10 Pietenpols and you'll find 10 different ways of buildinga Pietenpol. This can be more frustrating than a plan which is more "cookie-cutter" as you haveto sort through the options and make decisions - but it all depends on howyou look at it - the Piet really allows you to make it uniquely yours. Anyway - that's just my novice opinion (long-winded too)I understand your frustrations - but so far I believe they can be overcome - ...Hope that helps in some way.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
In response to your question I should first explain my position. I am a first time builder in the relatively early stages of my build. Now to answer your questions I have already come across numerous "errors/omissions"with the plans. - a great source of frustration at times. One thing I've learned already is this - the "errors/omissions" usually crop upwhen you try to figure out the whole project at one - biting off too big a pieceto chew on at once. It seems best to break the project down into little pieces and that makes it moremanageable- then you can break apart that smaller step or assembly and figureout what you know and what you still need to find out to proceed. At this point I've found both this board, numerous print/web/human sources beneficial- and Andrew Pietenpol - the one who sells the plans is more than happyto answer many many questions by phone or email (ask me how I know...)Incidentally - as I progress I'm finding that many of those "omissions" in theplans don't actually exist - I just hadn't studied the plans enough or hadn'tfound that misplaced detail. part of this - I think - is this internet age we live in. So often the temptationis to give up and run to Google at the slightest problem -when most of thetimes spending even 5 more minutes studying the drawings would yield the infowe're looking for. Perhaps the biggest source of frustration one might find with the Pietenpol isthe many different ways people build them. Even the plans show 3 different fuselageoptions - 2 landing gear options - 2 wing options etc. Secondly - look at 10 Pietenpols and you'll find 10 different ways of buildinga Pietenpol. This can be more frustrating than a plan which is more "cookie-cutter" as you haveto sort through the options and make decisions - but it all depends on howyou look at it - the Piet really allows you to make it uniquely yours. Anyway - that's just my novice opinion (long-winded too)I understand your frustrations - but so far I believe they can be overcome - ...Hope that helps in some way.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Steve; the wooden disc that I used to transfer the front cockpit shoulder beltloads to the cabane X-bracing is purely my own idea of how to transfer the loadmore elegantly. I thought about just clipping onto the crossing point of the1/8" cables, but that particular metal-on-metal connection didn't appeal tome. Nothing wrong with it, though.As you know, the secondary purpose of the wooden disc is to provide a rear sightfor my Browning .50 machine gun. There is a sighting notch in the top of thatdisc, if you'll recall. Several times I've made strafing runs on the trainthat runs to Hondo from Castroville out of San Antonio, with devastating resultsto the train. One time, I overtook the train from behind (took a while),strafing it from caboose to engine, then pulled up into a duster turn and usedup the remainder of my ammo strafing the train back the other way from engineto caboose. Never knew what hit 'em.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Steve; the wooden disc that I used to transfer the front cockpit shoulder beltloads to the cabane X-bracing is purely my own idea of how to transfer the loadmore elegantly. I thought about just clipping onto the crossing point of the1/8" cables, but that particular metal-on-metal connection didn't appeal tome. Nothing wrong with it, though.As you know, the secondary purpose of the wooden disc is to provide a rear sightfor my Browning .50 machine gun. There is a sighting notch in the top of thatdisc, if you'll recall. Several times I've made strafing runs on the trainthat runs to Hondo from Castroville out of San Antonio, with devastating resultsto the train. One time, I overtook the train from behind (took a while),strafing it from caboose to engine, then pulled up into a duster turn and usedup the remainder of my ammo strafing the train back the other way from engineto caboose. Never knew what hit 'em.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Mike;41CC has two corks butted together, inline, on the end of a brass float rod. I'mguessing that the rod is 1/8" but I don't have it here in front of me. Thesecorks are much smaller than #30 that the Big Piets use but I don't know whatsize these are. Corky sealed them with T88, I believe, and they have sat in100LL for years and years with no sign of waterlogging (fuel logging?)They don't exactly bob happily on the surface of the fuel, but that adds a littlebit of dampening. Normal engine vibration in flight keeps the rod free inthe cap and keeps the float indicating the fuel level as closely as necessaryfor flight. In short, it is neither sluggish and heavy, nor light and bouncyin the fuel. Like Goldilocks in Baby Bear's bed, "it's just right".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 05:42:15 -0700
Mike;41CC has two corks butted together, inline, on the end of a brass float rod. I'mguessing that the rod is 1/8" but I don't have it here in front of me. Thesecorks are much smaller than #30 that the Big Piets use but I don't know whatsize these are. Corky sealed them with T88, I believe, and they have sat in100LL for years and years with no sign of waterlogging (fuel logging?)They don't exactly bob happily on the surface of the fuel, but that adds a littlebit of dampening. Normal engine vibration in flight keeps the rod free inthe cap and keeps the float indicating the fuel level as closely as necessaryfor flight. In short, it is neither sluggish and heavy, nor light and bouncyin the fuel. Like Goldilocks in Baby Bear's bed, "it's just right".--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2014 05:42:15 -0700
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Original Posted By: woodflier
Over the years we've seen just about every size and type of forward diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sectionsin lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keepit from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used herein such a critical area.If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will come forward in an accident involving a high rate ofdeceleration. Don't whimp out on what size tubing or strut material you're using up there----it could save your life or ruin your dayand a passenger's day.Mike C.Ohio[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CF9B58.3CDD09E0] [cid:image002.jpg(at)01CF9B58.3CDD09E0] One I would not let someone I loved ride in. One I would gladly let someone I loved ride in.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Over the years we've seen just about every size and type of forward diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sectionsin lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keepit from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used herein such a critical area.If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will come forward in an accident involving a high rate ofdeceleration. Don't whimp out on what size tubing or strut material you're using up there----it could save your life or ruin your dayand a passenger's day.Mike C.Ohio[cid:image001.jpg(at)01CF9B58.3CDD09E0] [cid:image002.jpg(at)01CF9B58.3CDD09E0] One I would not let someone I loved ride in. One I would gladly let someone I loved ride in.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuel Float...Doesn't
Re: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal strutsIf you see carefully the first photo, it have the X braced cables too.And the second one is strong enough as the bolt it have in the upper side,It look thin.Mario Giacummo2014-07-09 10:29 GMT-03:00 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners,LLC] :> Over the years we=99ve seen just about every size and type of forward> diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sections>> in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four> cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep>> it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat> disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here>> in such a critical area.>>> If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will> come forward in an accident involving a high rate of>> deceleration. Don=99t whimp out on what size tubing or strut material> you=99re using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day>> and a passenger=99s day.>>> Mike C.>> Ohio>>> One I would not let someone I loved ride> in. One I would gladly> let someone I loved ride> in.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal strutsIf you see carefully the first photo, it have the X braced cables too.And the second one is strong enough as the bolt it have in the upper side,It look thin.Mario Giacummo2014-07-09 10:29 GMT-03:00 Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-LME0)[Vantage Partners,LLC] :> Over the years we=99ve seen just about every size and type of forward> diagonal struts used on Pietenpol center sections>> in lieu of the X-cable bracing that is shown on the plans to keep the four> cabane (and thus wing) erect, upright, and to keep>> it from shifting forward in the event of a crash but what is somewhat> disturbing is seeing very small diameter tubing used here>> in such a critical area.>>> If those diagonal struts are too small or not strong enough the wing will> come forward in an accident involving a high rate of>> deceleration. Don=99t whimp out on what size tubing or strut material> you=99re using up there----it could save your life or ruin your day>> and a passenger=99s day.>>> Mike C.>> Ohio>>> One I would not let someone I loved ride> in. One I would gladly> let someone I loved ride> in.>>________________________________________________________________________________
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
I used three wine corks from our local vineyard, with 4 coats of old-fashioned shellac. Has been working fine for 3 years, although I don't leave the cap with the float rod in the tank when it's parked or hangared. I don't want to give the gas the opportunity to dissolve the shellac through long-term dunking, and the solid cap I use when it's parked keeps water out. The rod is just steel welding rod threaded to take some simple nuts. A nut and washer above the corks, then the corks on the rod, then a washer and two nuts, one as a jam nut on the bottom. Matt Paxton-----Original Message-----
I used three wine corks from our local vineyard, with 4 coats of old-fashioned shellac. Has been working fine for 3 years, although I don't leave the cap with the float rod in the tank when it's parked or hangared. I don't want to give the gas the opportunity to dissolve the shellac through long-term dunking, and the solid cap I use when it's parked keeps water out. The rod is just steel welding rod threaded to take some simple nuts. A nut and washer above the corks, then the corks on the rod, then a washer and two nuts, one as a jam nut on the bottom. Matt Paxton-----Original Message-----
RE: Pietenpol-List: a common place to undersell yourself---diagonal struts
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,In the interest of improving the "crash-worthiness" of my Pietenpol, I'vedecided this winter to replace the cabane diagonals on mine, per WilliamWynne's suggestions after his experience. While my diagonal struts areplenty beefy, and the attach points to the front cabane struts are good andsolid (see photos below),the weak point in the system is the turnbuckle fork that I used to allow foreasy adjustment of the wing. In the event of a crash, any forward movementof the wing will likely buckle the turnbuckle fork shaft. I will remake thestruts with the streamline tubing going all the way to the attach point, nowthat I have the wing where I want it.Wing movement in a crash is not much of a concern with a nose mounted tank(of course, having a tank full of fuel in your front passenger's lap mightbe something to worry about). But with a centersection tank like I have, itwon't take much motion to rupture a fuel line and cause a fire.Another point to consider is that using streamline tubing produces much lessdrag than round tubing (there is almost no worse shape moving through theair than a round tube), but the round tube is much cheaper. Trying toreduce drag on a Pietenpol is pretty much a losing proposition.Anyway, this is a good discussion to have for those who are in the buildingprocess and making decisions on how to brace their wing structure.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Mike,In the interest of improving the "crash-worthiness" of my Pietenpol, I'vedecided this winter to replace the cabane diagonals on mine, per WilliamWynne's suggestions after his experience. While my diagonal struts areplenty beefy, and the attach points to the front cabane struts are good andsolid (see photos below),the weak point in the system is the turnbuckle fork that I used to allow foreasy adjustment of the wing. In the event of a crash, any forward movementof the wing will likely buckle the turnbuckle fork shaft. I will remake thestruts with the streamline tubing going all the way to the attach point, nowthat I have the wing where I want it.Wing movement in a crash is not much of a concern with a nose mounted tank(of course, having a tank full of fuel in your front passenger's lap mightbe something to worry about). But with a centersection tank like I have, itwon't take much motion to rupture a fuel line and cause a fire.Another point to consider is that using streamline tubing produces much lessdrag than round tubing (there is almost no worse shape moving through theair than a round tube), but the round tube is much cheaper. Trying toreduce drag on a Pietenpol is pretty much a losing proposition.Anyway, this is a good discussion to have for those who are in the buildingprocess and making decisions on how to brace their wing structure.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia _____
Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Original Posted By: "at7000ft"
I'm with WW on this one. If you take a good look at how the Cont and Corvair enginemounts are constructed and the fact that they bolt directly to the diagonalcabane strut mounts, it ties everything together with a lot of triangular structures.I don't think the upper longerons are carrying the loads you thinkthey are. The firewall is providing a large gusset, this will help prevent diamondingthe structure too. There are a lot of triangular structures involvedthere if you step back and look at it. Triangles are very strong. I don't have any degrees in engineering, but I do design engineering at work ona daily basis. My 3 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
I'm with WW on this one. If you take a good look at how the Cont and Corvair enginemounts are constructed and the fact that they bolt directly to the diagonalcabane strut mounts, it ties everything together with a lot of triangular structures.I don't think the upper longerons are carrying the loads you thinkthey are. The firewall is providing a large gusset, this will help prevent diamondingthe structure too. There are a lot of triangular structures involvedthere if you step back and look at it. Triangles are very strong. I don't have any degrees in engineering, but I do design engineering at work ona daily basis. My 3 cents,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Seatbelt eyebolts.
Re: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper makes cover of CONTACT! magazine
Original Posted By: dog67(at)aol.com
Mounted my lap belts as you described through wood with extra 1/8" ply on eachside. My shoulder belts attach all the way back to my AN6 tailwheel attach boltwith a 1/8" cable in between.--------Rick HollandNX6819ZRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_ ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper makes cover of CONTACT! magazine
Mounted my lap belts as you described through wood with extra 1/8" ply on eachside. My shoulder belts attach all the way back to my AN6 tailwheel attach boltwith a 1/8" cable in between.--------Rick HollandNX6819ZRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_ ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Dan Helsper makes cover of CONTACT! magazine
- Jonathan Apfelbaum-----Original Message-----