Original Posted By: Bill Princell
Don't have the plans yet and don't know how it translates to fokker ribs, but you'djust leave the nails in on the ones I built. Will "attempt to attach" photos..if you can see nails in there.. Any thoughts on this for the piet?What happened to the Fokker someone axed..er..asked? Too big a project and aintas fun/cheap as a Piet. Fokkers belong at Rhinebeck. A piet seems to be morerealistic as a solo project and about a quarter or third the cost of a Tripe.You should really have a team or couple folk building a full scale war replica,(my humble opinion) as well as a few ground folk to help you fly it. The Pietis more like the Champ I used to have. One can fly it on his/her own. Plus youcan give your kids, and later, grandkids a ride. I still have those ribs asgarage wall decor..Atleast I have some practice with many a rib..LarryRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_18 ... ______Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:45:56 -0400Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Pietenpol-List: Re:T-88
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Try popsicle sticks for mixing and applying. They are the perfect size and are available at craft stores.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:14:10 -0700
Try popsicle sticks for mixing and applying. They are the perfect size and are available at craft stores.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 06:14:10 -0700
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: "jimd"
I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amountof each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty coolas well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three littleclear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 soyou don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garageduring the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meantthat varnishing both my wing panels took forever.I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two setsof wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and isacceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clearcoat as it would work with any of the covering systems.T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad andwhile they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.Great posts guys,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amountof each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty coolas well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three littleclear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 soyou don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garageduring the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meantthat varnishing both my wing panels took forever.I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two setsof wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and isacceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clearcoat as it would work with any of the covering systems.T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad andwhile they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.Great posts guys,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amountof each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty coolas well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three littleclear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 soyou don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garageduring the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meantthat varnishing both my wing panels took forever.I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two setsof wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and isacceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clearcoat as it would work with any of the covering systems.T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad andwhile they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.Great posts guys,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:18:51 -0500
I agree with the clear little cups, works great, you just measure out same amountof each. If you guys haven't tried the System 3 Clear Coat, it is pretty coolas well, but takes a 2 to 1 ratio and that is easy to get with three littleclear cups. (It is an epoxy varnish, that is totally compatible with T-88 soyou don't have to leave dry wood where the T-88 will go.)Having said all that, the clear coat slowed me down as I was working in my garageduring the winter and it was about 55-60 degrees, so the curing time meantthat varnishing both my wing panels took forever.I think I will do the upper wing panels (I am doing an Aerial so it has two setsof wings) with one part polyurethane as it would eliminate the mixing and isacceptable as a base for the Stewart Systems covering process. Did the clearcoat as it would work with any of the covering systems.T-88 works great, so does the clear coat, but both of them smell pretty bad andwhile they will cure at lower temperatures, they cure much slower.Great posts guys,JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 10:18:51 -0500
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: jimd
I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and puttingon the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cementcan feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, butbefore its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a littlebit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees andsort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to dothat with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and puttingon the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cementcan feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, butbefore its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a littlebit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees andsort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to dothat with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: jimd
I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and puttingon the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cementcan feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, butbefore its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a littlebit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees andsort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to dothat with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
I found a great use for pop sickle sticks. When your covering things and puttingon the fabric tape, the pinked edges of the tape, when coated with fabric cementcan feel rough like the edge of a saw blade. After gluing the fabric, butbefore its totally set, you can go over the edges and flatten/smooth them a littlebit, getting them to stay down and be incredibly smoother.With the Stewart Systems EkoBond glue, you can iron them at about 250 degrees andsort of mold them really flat/smooth, but I don't think your supposed to dothat with PolyBrush, though the pop sickle stick thing should still work.JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Pietenpol-List: T-88
RE: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Hi CorkyClick on the link below to get to the archives.http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_s ... .cgiSelect Pietenpol in the "Select Archive" boxFor the "Output Method" - keep things simple and click the 3rd option (All Msgs=2C No Index)In the "Search String" box type the word riblett If this doesn't work for you holler againRod
Hi CorkyClick on the link below to get to the archives.http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_s ... .cgiSelect Pietenpol in the "Select Archive" boxFor the "Output Method" - keep things simple and click the 3rd option (All Msgs=2C No Index)In the "Search String" box type the word riblett If this doesn't work for you holler againRod
RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Aircraft Spruce is where I get mine and it cost $48 per quart.RSRob Stapleton, PhotojournalistAnchorage, AK(907) 230-9425KL2ANSkype:rob.stapleton.jr-----Original Message-----
Aircraft Spruce is where I get mine and it cost $48 per quart.RSRob Stapleton, PhotojournalistAnchorage, AK(907) 230-9425KL2ANSkype:rob.stapleton.jr-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
It is a specialty glue available from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks--Jim L. ----- Original Message -----
It is a specialty glue available from Aircraft Spruce or Wicks--Jim L. ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Mark,I got mine from Aircraft Spruce but have also found it locally at Rockler's. I think if you have any woodworking specialty stores in your area they will have it.Jim ----- Original Message -----
Mark,I got mine from Aircraft Spruce but have also found it locally at Rockler's. I think if you have any woodworking specialty stores in your area they will have it.Jim ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: "Jim Quinn"
Yep, AS&S is where I got mine. Currently $37.85 a quart. Good stuff.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Yep, AS&S is where I got mine. Currently $37.85 a quart. Good stuff.--------Mark - working on wingsRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ALittle Help
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Rob Stapleton
Jamestown Distributors, a boatbuilding supply house in Rhode Island, is where I buy mine. Closer for fellows in New England. $40/qt kit and shorter shipping distance/time for me in New Hampshire.Al ----- Original Message -----
Jamestown Distributors, a boatbuilding supply house in Rhode Island, is where I buy mine. Closer for fellows in New England. $40/qt kit and shorter shipping distance/time for me in New Hampshire.Al ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
If you have a marine supply near, try them. ----- Original Message -----
If you have a marine supply near, try them. ----- Original Message -----
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wt/Bal
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Jack, I finally got my cg in limits by moving my wings back 4 inches. It lookskind of rakish now and the weight came in at 758 lbs. I think you should startnow for Brodhead. He he. I will see you there in my cessna 140. Cheers, GardinerMason-------------- Original message ----------------------
Jack, I finally got my cg in limits by moving my wings back 4 inches. It lookskind of rakish now and the weight came in at 758 lbs. I think you should startnow for Brodhead. He he. I will see you there in my cessna 140. Cheers, GardinerMason-------------- Original message ----------------------
RE: Pietenpol-List: Wt/Bal
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
18 more days.Jack-----Original Message-----
18 more days.Jack-----Original Message-----
> Pietenpol-List: Wt/Bal
Original Posted By: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 CoG Range
Original Posted By: johnwoods(at)westnet.com.au
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 CoG RangeSir, Do you have a flying Piet with the 612 airfoil or are you in the building process?Corky**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JulystepsfooterNO62)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:06:19 +0800 (WST)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett 612 CoG RangeSir, Do you have a flying Piet with the 612 airfoil or are you in the building process?Corky**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! JulystepsfooterNO62)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 23:06:19 +0800 (WST)
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Most decent boat builder/marine supply stores carry it. Here on the right coast Hamilton Marine and West Marine have it.Michael in Maine ----- Original Message -----
Most decent boat builder/marine supply stores carry it. Here on the right coast Hamilton Marine and West Marine have it.Michael in Maine ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Mark Roberts
Mark:Personally I have always preferred the MAS brand products.http://www.masepoxies.comWest also carries it. I have used it extensively for over 15 yrs and have no regrets. One major advantage of the MAS is you do not need to sand between coats as the slow stuf does not have the amine blush. http://www.masepoxies.com/public/index. ... tid=69474I also tends to run a bit thinner than the T88 which I prefer.Michael ----- Original Message -----
Mark:Personally I have always preferred the MAS brand products.http://www.masepoxies.comWest also carries it. I have used it extensively for over 15 yrs and have no regrets. One major advantage of the MAS is you do not need to sand between coats as the slow stuf does not have the amine blush. http://www.masepoxies.com/public/index. ... tid=69474I also tends to run a bit thinner than the T88 which I prefer.Michael ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Jim Markle
I got mine from Jamestown as well. The T-88 works well with System 3's Clear Coatepoxy, might try it if you get a chance. I was reading a manual on puttingtogether an Acroduster and it had a whole section on T-88/Clear Coat, and I usedit on all my glue surfaces and the wood leading edge, its very nice. Theirwas someone selling it 3 liters for $99, it mixes 2 to 1 unlike the 50/50 mixof T-88, but I believe the $99 package would be enough to do all your wood. Itis very easy to tell where you have been with it, which was not the case withsome of the other varnish products I tried. Like Minwax Polycrylic ,it driesand protects the wood, but it can be really hard to tell what has been coveredand what has not, especially on second or third coats.jimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:05:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
I got mine from Jamestown as well. The T-88 works well with System 3's Clear Coatepoxy, might try it if you get a chance. I was reading a manual on puttingtogether an Acroduster and it had a whole section on T-88/Clear Coat, and I usedit on all my glue surfaces and the wood leading edge, its very nice. Theirwas someone selling it 3 liters for $99, it mixes 2 to 1 unlike the 50/50 mixof T-88, but I believe the $99 package would be enough to do all your wood. Itis very easy to tell where you have been with it, which was not the case withsome of the other varnish products I tried. Like Minwax Polycrylic ,it driesand protects the wood, but it can be really hard to tell what has been coveredand what has not, especially on second or third coats.jimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 14:05:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Roman Bukolt
I buy it at Woodcraft when I run out and don't feel like waiting for an order toarrive. Don't know if you have those where you are. Costs about the same asAircraft Spruce with the added shipping.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
I buy it at Woodcraft when I run out and don't feel like waiting for an order toarrive. Don't know if you have those where you are. Costs about the same asAircraft Spruce with the added shipping.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
ok thats exactly the kind of answer I would have given. I love the link never knewthat existed. I think I will use that in the future. That said, I think he is asking if anyone has a source that has a good price shortof googling every supplier on the web. his question wasn't where can he getit, the question was who has the best price. So that clarified a bit, anyonehere know of a specific supplier that is asking a really good price, or is itall about the same.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 02:02:48 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
ok thats exactly the kind of answer I would have given. I love the link never knewthat existed. I think I will use that in the future. That said, I think he is asking if anyone has a source that has a good price shortof googling every supplier on the web. his question wasn't where can he getit, the question was who has the best price. So that clarified a bit, anyonehere know of a specific supplier that is asking a really good price, or is itall about the same.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 02:02:48 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Question for those of you who are using, or who havealready built, using the Riblett airfoil: are youcontinuing to use the standard dimension for thewing spar depth (4-3/4" for main spar) and insertingblocking to fill the gap, or are you using deeperspars? If you keep the same chordwise spacingbetween spars (27-1/2"), the Riblett airfoil isdeeper than the Pietenpol airfoil at the mainspar station by about 9/16".Just curious; thanks.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Question for those of you who are using, or who havealready built, using the Riblett airfoil: are youcontinuing to use the standard dimension for thewing spar depth (4-3/4" for main spar) and insertingblocking to fill the gap, or are you using deeperspars? If you keep the same chordwise spacingbetween spars (27-1/2"), the Riblett airfoil isdeeper than the Pietenpol airfoil at the mainspar station by about 9/16".Just curious; thanks.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Dan Yocum
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
RE: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Dave,Ryan's message was pretty clear...allow me to paraphrase: "It does not takevery much T-88 to build a Piet. If you shop really, really hard you mightsave $10 or $15. So why not just order from Aircraft Spruce and Specialtyand be done with it?"Of course, if you feel inclined to spend hours and days on shopping for asource....Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Dave,Ryan's message was pretty clear...allow me to paraphrase: "It does not takevery much T-88 to build a Piet. If you shop really, really hard you mightsave $10 or $15. So why not just order from Aircraft Spruce and Specialtyand be done with it?"Of course, if you feel inclined to spend hours and days on shopping for asource....Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair Conversion, mountedTail done, Fuselage on gear(16 ribs down.)-----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
RE: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Shad,I will attend but will be driving in from Marysville. Hopefully, I willhave earned my sport pilot certificate with Bill See by then as well.Jason Holmes
Shad,I will attend but will be driving in from Marysville. Hopefully, I willhave earned my sport pilot certificate with Bill See by then as well.Jason Holmes
Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in
Original Posted By: Dave and Connie
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
Original Posted By: Ryan M
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: Robert Ray
Woodworking stores sometimes carry it, too, and there might be one near you. Some boat companies might also, if they carry Systems Three products.David Paule________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 22:11:21 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Woodworking stores sometimes carry it, too, and there might be one near you. Some boat companies might also, if they carry Systems Three products.David Paule________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 22:11:21 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: "Tim White"
nope, its a Pietenpol, well it will be when I get started anyhow. I want to builta GN-1 but am having problems sourcing the plans so it looks like it will bejust a regular ole Piet. Not that there is anything wrong with that, don't getme wrong, I just wanted the changes incorporated into the GN1. The Flea name just goes back a decade or more with me, it is short for superfleaand has nothing to do with aviation. Don't honestly remember where it came fromjust one of those things that stuck. Did look at the flying flea but wanted something a little more standard in design.I have always loved the WWI look and the Pietenpol delivers that to my satisfactionwhile still retaining the point A to B utility that I desire. Flyingflea I suppose could also deliver that utility too, but the looks. . .well itsan acquired taste that I guess I have not acquired. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
nope, its a Pietenpol, well it will be when I get started anyhow. I want to builta GN-1 but am having problems sourcing the plans so it looks like it will bejust a regular ole Piet. Not that there is anything wrong with that, don't getme wrong, I just wanted the changes incorporated into the GN1. The Flea name just goes back a decade or more with me, it is short for superfleaand has nothing to do with aviation. Don't honestly remember where it came fromjust one of those things that stuck. Did look at the flying flea but wanted something a little more standard in design.I have always loved the WWI look and the Pietenpol delivers that to my satisfactionwhile still retaining the point A to B utility that I desire. Flyingflea I suppose could also deliver that utility too, but the looks. . .well itsan acquired taste that I guess I have not acquired. JimRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in
Original Posted By: shad bell
Shad,I would like to attend. Send out a reminder a couple of weeks ahead.Tim White3OH0 (New Carlisle) ----- Original Message -----
Shad,I would like to attend. Send out a reminder a couple of weeks ahead.Tim White3OH0 (New Carlisle) ----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Ohio Piet Fly-in
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: Ryan Mueller
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
The above two posts pretty much hit the high points. But that said I have neverflown a Piet or the Grega design so nothing I have to say on it is to be takentaken as expert opinion. Really I guess it comes down to the Airfoil (stallcharacteristics) but as was already said the riblett sounds better yet. My onlyreal reason I guess is that all the info, materials, plans etc are found inone convenient package. Except of course for the fact that the convenient packageitself can't be found. I have no apprehension at all about building a Pietexactly as originally designed, FC 10 and all. There have been so many builtover the decades that its hard not to trust the design. My intention is to buythe piet plans and some of the supplemental plans if I can't find the GN1 plans,and it looks like I can't. I love the classic lines of the air camper, I also like the idea of a more modernairfoil if it delivers better performance throughout its flight envelope. However,if some of those changes are not readily available or just plain hardto find, that is not a deal breaker for me. The airfoil is easy to find info onI agree. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not much of an aircraftdesigner, I don't like the idea of building an airplane by choosing two optionsfrom column A, one option from column B etc. I feel more comfortable lookingat two or three completed planes and choosing the one that fits my needs thebest and saying I'll build that one as it sits.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link badDate: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:42:45 -0500
The above two posts pretty much hit the high points. But that said I have neverflown a Piet or the Grega design so nothing I have to say on it is to be takentaken as expert opinion. Really I guess it comes down to the Airfoil (stallcharacteristics) but as was already said the riblett sounds better yet. My onlyreal reason I guess is that all the info, materials, plans etc are found inone convenient package. Except of course for the fact that the convenient packageitself can't be found. I have no apprehension at all about building a Pietexactly as originally designed, FC 10 and all. There have been so many builtover the decades that its hard not to trust the design. My intention is to buythe piet plans and some of the supplemental plans if I can't find the GN1 plans,and it looks like I can't. I love the classic lines of the air camper, I also like the idea of a more modernairfoil if it delivers better performance throughout its flight envelope. However,if some of those changes are not readily available or just plain hardto find, that is not a deal breaker for me. The airfoil is easy to find info onI agree. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not much of an aircraftdesigner, I don't like the idea of building an airplane by choosing two optionsfrom column A, one option from column B etc. I feel more comfortable lookingat two or three completed planes and choosing the one that fits my needs thebest and saying I'll build that one as it sits.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link badDate: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:42:45 -0500
RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Well stated Bill.................Brian SLC- UT
Well stated Bill.................Brian SLC- UT
Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
I certainly don't know why the added plywood either. I was under the impressionthat the need for the extended nose was to compensate for the lighter certifiedaircraft engines. lighter than a model A or corvair engine that is. Is the GN1 a heavier plane? if so could that partially explain the added ply? AgainI don't know. Nah never mind that if it needed more rigidity due to extraweight 1X 1 1/2 longerons would be used (or some larger dimension than 1X1) butyou wouldn't add 20 lbs of ply.is the fixed location of the wing due to the idea that the entire CG was relocatedto "acceptable limits" as was posted above? if so that is a correction thatmight lead the adjustable nature of the piet wing unnecessary. But yes I do pick up on a bit of a bias. I, on the other hand, have no bias atall. As they say I don't have a horse in this race. What I am doing is enteringthe debate prior to the purchase of my "horse." But to answer your question as to which of those things are desirable:Plywood, I don't know why its there but the added stringers would be to give somethingto attach said unnecessary plywood to.The longer nose as I understand it is keep weight and balance for a lighter certifiedengine. If it is then that is better than lead in the nose. Could be wrongthough.Use of cub landing gear means the lift struts don't align with landing gear attachpoints. Ok why is that bad. Different yes but why is it bad. I have a hard time imagining that with all the aircraft salvage yards out therethat one can't find some of the hardware that is needed if you have a part number.And at any rate as you say if you're going to fabricate the original AirCamper parts then why is it bad to fabricate GN1 parts. That sword cuts bothways. And again if the added ply isn't needed then is there a reason it can't be omitted?I understand the bias. I drive a chevy Camaro. I don't like pontiac firebirds.They are both GM F bodies so whats the difference? I don't know I can't answerthat, but I like my Camaro and don't care for Firebirds. Now don't misunderstand me I really don't have a vested interest in it either wayat this point. In fact it appears that the GN! isn't available anyway. I aminterested in hearing any real solid tangible reasons why the original air camperis superior to the modernized GN1. Saying that you will have to fabricateparts for a homebuilt plane doesn't cut it because in either case the parts needto fabricated. So unless you're saying that fabricating parts for X is moredifficult, time consuming, expensive than fabricating parts for Y, then itsthe same thing and not either a detriment or advantage.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:21:49 -0500
I certainly don't know why the added plywood either. I was under the impressionthat the need for the extended nose was to compensate for the lighter certifiedaircraft engines. lighter than a model A or corvair engine that is. Is the GN1 a heavier plane? if so could that partially explain the added ply? AgainI don't know. Nah never mind that if it needed more rigidity due to extraweight 1X 1 1/2 longerons would be used (or some larger dimension than 1X1) butyou wouldn't add 20 lbs of ply.is the fixed location of the wing due to the idea that the entire CG was relocatedto "acceptable limits" as was posted above? if so that is a correction thatmight lead the adjustable nature of the piet wing unnecessary. But yes I do pick up on a bit of a bias. I, on the other hand, have no bias atall. As they say I don't have a horse in this race. What I am doing is enteringthe debate prior to the purchase of my "horse." But to answer your question as to which of those things are desirable:Plywood, I don't know why its there but the added stringers would be to give somethingto attach said unnecessary plywood to.The longer nose as I understand it is keep weight and balance for a lighter certifiedengine. If it is then that is better than lead in the nose. Could be wrongthough.Use of cub landing gear means the lift struts don't align with landing gear attachpoints. Ok why is that bad. Different yes but why is it bad. I have a hard time imagining that with all the aircraft salvage yards out therethat one can't find some of the hardware that is needed if you have a part number.And at any rate as you say if you're going to fabricate the original AirCamper parts then why is it bad to fabricate GN1 parts. That sword cuts bothways. And again if the added ply isn't needed then is there a reason it can't be omitted?I understand the bias. I drive a chevy Camaro. I don't like pontiac firebirds.They are both GM F bodies so whats the difference? I don't know I can't answerthat, but I like my Camaro and don't care for Firebirds. Now don't misunderstand me I really don't have a vested interest in it either wayat this point. In fact it appears that the GN! isn't available anyway. I aminterested in hearing any real solid tangible reasons why the original air camperis superior to the modernized GN1. Saying that you will have to fabricateparts for a homebuilt plane doesn't cut it because in either case the parts needto fabricated. So unless you're saying that fabricating parts for X is moredifficult, time consuming, expensive than fabricating parts for Y, then itsthe same thing and not either a detriment or advantage.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:21:49 -0500
Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Karetaker aero website link bad
Original Posted By: H RULE
In the early years of aviation, during crashes, sometimes a piece of longeron or less frequently an upright, would splinter and stab the pilot. The introduction of plywood sides, fully covered, eliminated this.On the original Pietenpol, the cockpit was covered and the pilot's seat backs were intended to avoid this. I don't know if the GN-1 had a structural pilot's seat back, but for a goal of crash safety, it might still have sheeted the aft fuselage.It's not the only airplane designed that way... the Fly-Baby also had full plywood covering of the fuselage sides.David Paule> I certainly don't know why the added plywood either. I was under the > impression that the need for the extended nose was to compensate for the > lighter certified aircraft engines. lighter than a model A or corvair > engine that is.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:51:57 -0800 (PST)
In the early years of aviation, during crashes, sometimes a piece of longeron or less frequently an upright, would splinter and stab the pilot. The introduction of plywood sides, fully covered, eliminated this.On the original Pietenpol, the cockpit was covered and the pilot's seat backs were intended to avoid this. I don't know if the GN-1 had a structural pilot's seat back, but for a goal of crash safety, it might still have sheeted the aft fuselage.It's not the only airplane designed that way... the Fly-Baby also had full plywood covering of the fuselage sides.David Paule> I certainly don't know why the added plywood either. I was under the > impression that the need for the extended nose was to compensate for the > lighter certified aircraft engines. lighter than a model A or corvair > engine that is.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:51:57 -0800 (PST)
Pietenpol-List: T-88
Original Posted By: "David Paule"
For those that have not seen the Technical Data specs on T-88 go to (www.systemthree.com ). It says that the shelf life is about one year. I had a partial left-over T-88 from November 2004 while working on my Riblitt 612 wing, I found that both containers were almost solid. I put them in a pot of hot water and soon they were very fluid. I mixed up a batch to try on a wood project, it is amazing how well it worked. I don't recommend using old T-88 on a Piet, but it sure works. The containers are stored in my basement at 65 Deg. F. Pieti LowellPS: Got 30 Min, of Piet time last Sunday, with a warm tingle from the radiatorin 25 Deg air, She never fails to bring back that old feeling.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________
For those that have not seen the Technical Data specs on T-88 go to (www.systemthree.com ). It says that the shelf life is about one year. I had a partial left-over T-88 from November 2004 while working on my Riblitt 612 wing, I found that both containers were almost solid. I put them in a pot of hot water and soon they were very fluid. I mixed up a batch to try on a wood project, it is amazing how well it worked. I don't recommend using old T-88 on a Piet, but it sure works. The containers are stored in my basement at 65 Deg. F. Pieti LowellPS: Got 30 Min, of Piet time last Sunday, with a warm tingle from the radiatorin 25 Deg air, She never fails to bring back that old feeling.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________