Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
Here is another alternative for dealing with lift strut ends.Greg Cardinal________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build

Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Ray;Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I questionstuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach each endof your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's picture showing*four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane. I have not donethe analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the Carlson aluminumstruts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and paper work to studythat. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts from elongating the holesunder design stress, and it's not like you don't have long enough end fittingsto permit you to add more bolts through the strut and fitting to providemore pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst case, it will cost you some additionalAN3 bolts and hardware.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Three bolts would have been enough.My technical counselor likes to use the British engineering manuals whichare sometimes more conservative when it comes to strength of materials.There are several Pietenpols flying around using two bolts in their Carlsonstruts as Ray will be using so that's proof that two bolts will work.If I were using two bolts I would check the struts for bolt hole elongationat each condition inspection.Greg Cardinal -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: John Franklin
Me and Scott Knowlton are doing the same method with the Carlson struts. Our friend Brian Kenney did the analysis and calculated that there should be 3 bolts used.CharlesOn 3/28/2016 11:59 PM, taildrags wrote:>> Ray;>> Now look, I'm not trying to cause trouble here, but I'm an engineer and I questionstuff. You mentioned that you were using two AN3 bolts to attach each endof your lift struts to the strut end fittings. Then I see Greg's picture showing*four* bolts through the strut and fitting on his airplane. I have notdone the analysis of the shear where the AN3 bolts go through the Carlson aluminumstruts but it might be useful to do a little pencil and paper work to studythat. Two bolts might not be enough to keep the bolts from elongating theholes under design stress, and it's not like you don't have long enough end fittingsto permit you to add more bolts through the strut and fitting to providemore pull-out strength if it's needed. Worst case, it will cost you some additionalAN3 bolts and hardware.>> --------> Oscar Zuniga> Medford, OR> Air Camper NX41CC "Scout"> A75 power>>> Read this topic online here:>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 292#454292>>> -----> No virus found in this message.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2016 08:22:59 -0500 (GMT-05:00)

Original Posted By: Hans van der Voort

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
My vote goes for a welded aluminum tank. If you can't weld aluminum, lotsof guys have fabricated up the tank and riveted together with a few rivets,then used a professional welder to tig weld the seams. There WILL be someleaks, but once it's done right you never have to worry again, as long asthe welds are nice and thick. Small, pretty welds are very. pretty but foraircraft tanks, larger welds are the way to go. Tanks will sometimes warpwhen welding, but in Piet, the tank isn't really visible whether it's inthe wing or fuselage so who cares?Never used Flamemaster and it sounds "da bomb" so can't comment on that.Just sayin' don't be put off by having a tank welded up. Remember, theseare things you only do once in the project. then live with for decadesafter, so don't sweat them too much, if it takes an extra week or two it'snot a big deal in the long run.$.02Douwe________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Ray,Please see the attached. It will be a little extra work but very well worth doing.With the current configuration you are only depending on the small weldsto hold you wings on. Standard aircraft construction methods will have thisstrap in the strut ends.Please put these on before flying the plane. Respectfully,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/slaf ... __________

Original Posted By: "Fairfield, Mike"
Scott,Thank you VERY much. I will do this right away and also add a third AN-4 boltto the strut attachments. Should the strap be welded to the "U-joint?You would be welcome anytime to visit me and inspect my build. You would be myguest, all expenses paid.I'm TRULEY grateful for your help,Ray KrauseSent from my iPad> On Mar 30, 2016, at 8:30 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> > > Ray,> > Please see the attached. It will be a little extra work but very well worthdoing. With the current configuration you are only depending on the small weldsto hold you wings on. Standard aircraft construction methods will have thisstrap in the strut ends.> > Please put these on before flying the plane. > > Respectfully,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 361#454361> > > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/slaf ... 30_677.pdf> > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: George Abernathy
Ray,Welding it would be preferred. In fact it should be. I would really like to seeyour bird. Are you going to go to Frazuer Lake this year? Maybe we can findsome time around then? Or I can talk the wife into a weekend get away trip.She would probably welcome that. Maybe one weekend next month?? I'll askher. I'm currently thing the weekend of 4-19. What's your calendar look like?Cheers,--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2016 22:41:40 +0000 (UTC)

Original Posted By: Oscar Zuniga
Scott,I made the straps today and will weld them tomorrow. When the are completed, Iwill send a photo.I plan on going to Frazier, but probably in the Waiex or Aeronca. Of course, thePiet won't be ready!April 19 appears to be a Tuesday. But just about anytime in April or May wouldbe good for a visit...I'm retired! I have Drs. Appointments for either me ormy mom on April 14, 18 and 27. Even those could be changed to accommodate youand your wife. Would you fly up? Plan on staying with us for as long as you like.We could go see Gary Boothe and his gang in Lincoln.Let me know,RaySent from my iPad> On Mar 30, 2016, at 11:16 AM, AircamperN11MS wrote:> > > Ray,> > Welding it would be preferred. In fact it should be. I would really like tosee your bird. Are you going to go to Frazuer Lake this year? Maybe we canfind some time around then? Or I can talk the wife into a weekend get away trip.She would probably welcome that. Maybe one weekend next month?? I'll askher. I'm currently thing the weekend of 4-19. What's your calendar look like?> > Cheers,> > --------> Scott Liefeld> Flying N11MS since March 1972> Steel Tube> C-85-12> Wire Wheels> Brodhead in 1996> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 369#454369> > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "AircamperN11MS"
Folks=2C I just wanted to remind everyone (especially new builders/dreamers) that there is another excellent resource for us out there. Doc and Dee Mosher=2C well known to the Piet community and formerly editors of the Brodhead Pietenpol Association Newsletter=2C have a "Pietenpol Plans Plus" website that offers all of the Air Camper plans and supplements=2C plus a whole host of other useful information and historical background on the Air Camper and its designers Bernard Pietenpol and Orrin Hoopman=2C at http://www.docspietshop.com . You would do well to browse the site in your search for useful information.Oscar ZunigaMedford=2C ORAir Camper NX41CC=2C "Scout"A75 power ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pauls Piet Build

Original Posted By: "Barry Davis"
Ray,I have out of control fingers. April 9th was the weekend I was thinking of. Mywife says that that weekend works good for her. We can fine tune this via emailor texting. scott.liefeld(at)gmail.com661-400-1876 CellWe would be driving and may have our dog with us. We haven't asked the dog yet.....but she would probably want to go too. We need a weekend away.--------Scott LiefeldFlying N11MS since March 1972Steel TubeC-85-12Wire WheelsBrodhead in 1996Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Burkholder
Frank is out of town, but call Jon at 770-301-5222 and he can let you in to seea couple of the Big Piets.BarryNX973BP-----Original Message-----