Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
I just got my Piet newsletter. Love those pictures. Noticed that bothTom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section ofthe wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?phil--Check out Crusader Toys @http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/_______ ... __________

Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?In the 8th issue of the BPAN, Vi Kapler wrote that BHP estimated a wing cut-outto reduce lift by an amount equal to reducing wing span by 2 feet. Instead, herecommended installing a hinged cut-out that could be replaced during flight orraising the cabanes by 2 inches to ease entry for the flexibility-challenged. On the other hand, I've not yet heard a negative comment about wing cut-outs from a builder who has installed one. --Peter________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "David B. Schober"
>I just got my Piet newsletter. Love those pictures. Noticed that both>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?>philPhil- This is one of those issues which guys can debate till the cowscome home, but after flying several Piets with and without cutoutsI can't see a bit of difference between them. I say you'll save alotof money spent at the chiropracter if you put in a cutout.Mike C. ->Check out Crusader Toys @>http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/>>_____ ... __________

Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
Just a little warning, be sure and put the flap in the center of the wingfor entry. Some of the fellows building the Air Camper did not do this,rather they put a large opening in the wing and this reduced the rate ofclimb of the airplane. Remember that you cannot have all the features of ahigh powered plane in a small Ford powered ship and expect it to fly well.The flap is one of things that makes these airplanes a success.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
Mr. Pietenpol had the same problems with entry/exit and on later examples heraised the wing. I've seen pictures of airplanes with the wing 2" and 4"higher than the plans. The 2" extension looks the best. Another sollution isto hinge the trailing edge of the center section so you can lift it up to getin and out and then set it back in position for flight.Michael D Cuy wrote:> >I just got my Piet newsletter. Love those pictures. Noticed that both> >Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of> >the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?> >phil>> Phil- This is one of those issues which guys can debate till the cows> come home, but after flying several Piets with and without cutouts> I can't see a bit of difference between them. I say you'll save alot> of money spent at the chiropracter if you put in a cutout.>> Mike C.>> -> >Check out Crusader Toys @> >http://www.thegrid.net/crusader/> >> >> >> >--David B.Schober, CPEInstructor, Aviation MaintenanceFairmont State CollegeNational Aerospace Education CenterRt. 3 Box 13Bridgeport, WV 26330-9503(304) 842-8300________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wing cut out>>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of>>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?>>In the 8th issue of the BPAN, Vi Kapler wrote that BHP estimated a wingcut-out>to reduce lift by an amount equal to reducing wing span by 2 feet.Instead, he>recommended installing a hinged cut-out that could be replaced duringflight or>raising the cabanes by 2 inches to ease entry for theflexibility-challenged.>On the other hand, I've not yet heard a negative comment about wingcut-outs>from a builder who has installed one.>>--Peter>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Mr. Carmen A. Natalie"
>>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of>>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?>>In the 8th issue of the BPAN, Vi Kapler wrote that BHP estimated a wingcut-out >to reduce lift by an amount equal to reducing wing span by 2 feet. >--PeterPeter- I've got tons of faith in BHP's design and his comments recordedover time, but the wing cutout issue is one that is far overstated. Stearmans, Jennies,etc. all had themand not only does it make it easier to get it and out, you can see aboveyou and it helpsyou clear turns. In my case I turned the center section into a baggagearea with a hingedalum. cover with latches at the back. Frank P. did the same thing but hecannot reach insidehis due to no cutout or flop. I can stand up right in the pilots seat andlean forward to rummage around in the center section. (also makes for great periodicinspection of youraileron cables and pulleys.) I'm not trying to be funny here but see thelist below forimproving lift:1) Whatever engine you choose make sure it's up to snuff. Don't hang a junk 65 horse engine out there and complain when your rate of climb is poor.2) Keep the plane light. Stay away from heavy finishing processes. Lightfabric grade will be easier to attatch and the weave fills with less coats. Dopeworks wonderful- it's light, and easy to repair.3) WAX the wing. Really. I swear I gained 100 fpm after waxing my wing,top and bottom. Yes, you will have a stiff neck and sore arms.4) Loose 20 pounds after the holidays. (something I need to do as well !)5) Take off into the wind !Worth every cent you paid for it, Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Peter P Frantz
I've heard the is buffeting at the back of the neck with the cutout.-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Ian Holland
Hi Mike,' Thanks again for sage advice learned and earned by actually doing this. Andthanks also for your specific and clear information. WarrenMichael D Cuy wrote:> >>Tom Fahy and Mike Cuy have cut out the back end in the middle section of> >>the wing for better pilot entry. Does this have any effect on lift ?> >>In the 8th issue of the BPAN, Vi Kapler wrote that BHP estimated a wing> cut-out> >to reduce lift by an amount equal to reducing wing span by 2 feet.> >--Peter>> Peter- I've got tons of faith in BHP's design and his comments recorded> over time, but> the wing cutout issue is one that is far overstated. Stearmans, Jennies,> etc. all had them> and not only does it make it easier to get it and out, you can see above> you and it helps> you clear turns. In my case I turned the center section into a baggage> area with a hinged> alum. cover with latches at the back. Frank P. did the same thing but he> cannot reach inside> his due to no cutout or flop. I can stand up right in the pilots seat and> lean forward to> rummage around in the center section. (also makes for great periodic> inspection of your> aileron cables and pulleys.) I'm not trying to be funny here but see the> list below for> improving lift:>> 1) Whatever engine you choose make sure it's up to snuff. Don't hang a junk> 65 horse engine out there and complain when your rate of climb is poor.>> 2) Keep the plane light. Stay away from heavy finishing processes. Light> fabric grade> will be easier to attatch and the weave fills with less coats. Dope> works wonderful- it's light,> and easy to repair.>> 3) WAX the wing. Really. I swear I gained 100 fpm after waxing my wing,> top and bottom.> Yes, you will have a stiff neck and sore arms.>> 4) Loose 20 pounds after the holidays. (something I need to do as well !)>> 5) Take off into the wind !>> Worth every cent you paid for it,> Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________