Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: robert hensarling
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Streamlined tube>> Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs. Is>this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like to>use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used>streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut>material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the other>to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinion>here?> For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?>>Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Wayne and Kathy
Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs.Isthis likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like touse some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he usedstreamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strutmaterial would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the otherto double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinionhere? For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: wayne
I ain't no engineer but......If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'll gainsome confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carry aPiet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Ystrong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've never heardof a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causing anaccident in a Piet.John-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> wayne
While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle industry we callit airfoil tubing)I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The major axisis 3.125 andthe minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it would workfor lift struts.Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.John Greenlee wrote:> I ain't no engineer but......>> If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'll gain> some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carry a> Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Y> strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.>> Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.>> Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've never heard> of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causing an> accident in a Piet.>> John>> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > wayne
I imagine that would work great. Is there any internal reinforcingextrusions or just hollow?Steve EldredgeIT ServicesBrigham Young University> -----Original Message-----> mike cushway> Sent: Thursday, June 03, 1999 7:49 PM> To: Pietenpol Discussion> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the> bicycle industry we call> it airfoil tubing)> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum> tubing. The major axis> is 3.125 and> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think> that it would work> for lift struts.> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.>> John Greenlee wrote:>> > I ain't no engineer but......> >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type> steel you'll gain> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline> tube will carry a> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P> L E N T Y> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust> and corrosion.> >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.> >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes.> I've never heard> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs)> and causing an> > accident in a Piet.> >> > John> >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>>> > > mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>Yes> Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back side>of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairly>well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".>H.W.>>-----Original Message----->From: steve(at)byu.edu >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 10:19 AM>Subject: RE: Streamlined tube>>>>This is just the plastic shell right? Not structural?>>>>Steve Eldredge>>IT Services>>Brigham Young University>>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>> Behalf Of Ken>>> Beanlands>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:10 AM>>> To: Pietenpol Discussion>>> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>>>>>>>> They must think that there is something going on as I ordered>>> the stuff>>> for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as>>> they were>>> backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this>>> morning? >>>>>> Ken>>>>>> On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>>>>>> > Howard'>>> >>>> > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without>>> shipping, is for four ->>> > ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good>>> > alternative.>>> >>>> > Mark>>> >>>> >>>> > > Mark:>>> > > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10'>>> lengths which will>>> > > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material>>> fits over your>>> > > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per>>> foot. LEAF part>>> > > # A2685>>> > >>>> > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC>>> > >>>> > > H.W.>>> > >>>> > >>>> > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> > wayne
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>To Mike Cushway and all,>>Mike, could you give us all a little more information about thestreamline>tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,and what>about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is thesource?>>To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out>acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?>>Mark Boynton>Gilbert, Arizona>>>> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycleindustry we>call>> it airfoil tubing)>> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. Themajor>axis>> is 3.125 and>> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that itwould>work>> for lift struts.>> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.>>>> John Greenlee wrote:>>>> > I ain't no engineer but......>> >>> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steelyou'll>gain>> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tubewill carry>a>> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E NT Y>> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust andcorrosion.>> >>> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.>> >>> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I'venever>heard>> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) andcausing>an>> > accident in a Piet.>> >>> > John>> >>> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>>> > wayne
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>Mark:> LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will>fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your>existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part># A2685>>LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC>>H.W.>>>-----Original Message----->From: mboynton(at)excite.com >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 7:32 AM>Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>>>To Mike Cushway and all,>>>>Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the>streamline>>tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,>and what>>about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the>source?>>>>To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out>>acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?>>>>Mark Boynton>>Gilbert, Arizona>>>>>>> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle>industry we>>call>>> it airfoil tubing)>>> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The>major>>axis>>> is 3.125 and>>> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it>would>>work>>> for lift struts.>>> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.>>>>>> John Greenlee wrote:>>>>>> > I ain't no engineer but......>>> >>>> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel>you'll>>gain>>> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube>will carry>>a>>> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N>T Y>>> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and>corrosion.>>> >>>> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.>>> >>>> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've>never>>heard>>> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and>causing>>an>>> > accident in a Piet.>>> >>>> > John>>> >>>> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> > > mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: Streamlined tube>This is just the plastic shell right? Not structural?>>Steve Eldredge>IT Services>Brigham Young University>>>> -----Original Message----->> Behalf Of Ken>> Beanlands>> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:10 AM>> To: Pietenpol Discussion>> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>>>>> They must think that there is something going on as I ordered>> the stuff>> for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as>> they were>> backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this>> morning? >>>> Ken>>>> On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:>>>> > Howard'>> >>> > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without>> shipping, is for four ->> > ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good>> > alternative.>> >>> > Mark>> >>> >>> > > Mark:>> > > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10'>> lengths which will>> > > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material>> fits over your>> > > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per>> foot. LEAF part>> > > # A2685>> > >>> > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC>> > >>> > > H.W.>> > >>> > >>> > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> mboynton(at)excite.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>Howard'>>Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without shipping, is for four ->ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good>alternative.>>Mark>>>> Mark:>> LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will>> fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your>> existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part>> # A2685>> >> LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC>> >> H.W.>> >> >> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > wayne
To Mike Cushway and all,Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the streamlinetubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally, and whatabout cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the source?To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring outacceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?Mark BoyntonGilbert, Arizona> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle industry wecall> it airfoil tubing)> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The majoraxis> is 3.125 and> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it wouldwork> for lift struts.> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.> > John Greenlee wrote:> > > I ain't no engineer but......> >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel you'llgain> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube will carrya> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N T Y> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and corrosion.> >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.> >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've neverheard> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and causingan> > accident in a Piet.> >> > John> >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> mboynton(at)excite.com
Howard'Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without shipping, is for four -ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a goodalternative.Mark> Mark:> LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will> fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your> existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part> # A2685> > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC> > H.W.> > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > mboynton(at)excite.com
They must think that there is something going on as I ordered the stufffor Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as they werebackordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call thismorning? ;-)KenOn Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Howard'> > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without shipping, is for four -> ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good> alternative.> > Mark> > > > Mark:> > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which will> > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over your> > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part> > # A2685> > > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC> > > > H.W.> > > > > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > > mboynton(at)excite.com
This is just the plastic shell right? Not structural?Steve EldredgeIT ServicesBrigham Young University> -----Original Message-----> Behalf Of Ken> Beanlands> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:10 AM> To: Pietenpol Discussion> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > They must think that there is something going on as I ordered > the stuff> for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as > they were> backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this> morning? > > Ken> > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > > Howard'> > > > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without > shipping, is for four -> > ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good> > alternative.> > > > Mark> > > > > > > Mark:> > > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' > lengths which will> > > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material > fits over your> > > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per > foot. LEAF part> > > # A2685> > > > > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC> > > > > > H.W.> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > > > mboynton(at)excite.com
That's my understanding. I'll be sure to give a full report when theyarrive. I've used 1-1/8" 4130 and 1-5/8" 4130 round tubes for Chrissy andwas just about to make foam/fiberglass covers for them. THis sounds like amuch better method.KenOn Tue, 8 Jun 1999 steve(at)byu.edu wrote:> This is just the plastic shell right? Not structural?> > Steve Eldredge> IT Services> Brigham Young University> > > > -----Original Message-----> > Behalf Of Ken> > Beanlands> > Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 11:10 AM> > To: Pietenpol Discussion> > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > > > > They must think that there is something going on as I ordered > > the stuff> > for Chrissy this morning. They quoted 3 weeks for delivery as > > they were> > backordered for the stuff. That's fine by me. Anyone else call this> > morning? > > > > Ken> > > > On Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> > > > > Howard'> > > > > > Thanks for the info. I called LEAF. Cost, without > > shipping, is for four -> > > ten foot lengths (sold as a unit), for $189.95. Might be a good> > > alternative.> > > > > > Mark> > > > > > > > > > Mark:> > > > LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' > > lengths which will> > > > fair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material > > fits over your> > > > existing strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per > > foot. LEAF part> > > > # A2685> > > > > > > > LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INC> > > > > > > > H.W.> > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> steve(at)byu.edu
I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried severalsources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores(best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over$200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!KenOn Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:> Yes> Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back side> of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairly> well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".> H.W.> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > steve(at)byu.edu
Had the same "sticker shock" on pricing balsa wood!WarrenKen Beanlands wrote:> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried several> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>> Ken>> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:>> > Yes> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back side> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairly> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".> > H.W.> >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > steve(at)byu.edu
Why don't you use styrofoam (blue foam from DOW ) to make the streaml=ineand cover it with thin fiberglass.Luis Lolata (Pietenpol, my next aircraft !!)lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br> De: Ken Beanlands > Para: Pietenpol Discussion > Assunto: Re: Streamlined tube> Data: Ter=E7a-feira, 8 de Junho de 1999 16:27>> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried sever=al> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality woodstores> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at wellover> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>> Ken>> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:>> > Yes> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the backside> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairl=y> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".> > H.W.> >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Ken Beanlands wrote:> > I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried several> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!Have you considered fibergalss over foam?Pat________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> steve(at)byu.edu
Howard, Steve and others,the LEAF product is a PVC shell - not structural. At least that's what LEAFtold me. They also told me their general catalog is available for $6.00.They specialize in light-plane and ultra-light products.Mark> Yes> Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back side> of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairly> well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".> H.W.> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > steve(at)byu.edu
LEAF actually stands for Leading Edge Air Foils and are deeply rooted inthe ultralight and light plane market. They are dealers for the full lineof Rotax engines and parts and also sell several kits and plans like theNeuiports replica that the Kansas City Dawn Partol fly. They've beenaround for years and are quite reputable.KenOn Tue, 8 Jun 1999 mboynton(at)excite.com wrote:> Howard, Steve and others,> > the LEAF product is a PVC shell - not structural. At least that's what LEAF> told me. They also told me their general catalog is available for $6.00.> They specialize in light-plane and ultra-light products.> > Mark> > > > Yes> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back side> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairly> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".> > H.W.> > > > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: bwm
Yes, but this is lighter and faster. It will probably shave a week or twooff the building time and I'm really hoping to get in the air this summer.KenOn Tue, 8 Jun 1999, Patrick Panzera wrote:> Ken Beanlands wrote:> > > > I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried several> > sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores> > (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over> > $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!> > Have you considered fibergalss over foam?> > Pat> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Howard Wilkinson
I used some 6061t6 streamline tubing (not oval) which is reasonable in priceand appears to be PLENTY strong though not as strong as 4130. I did a postlast year that covered some particulars. I'll dig the info up if yourinterested.John-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
All four main struts in 6061T6 aluminum were not much more than $100.John-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Howard Wilkinson
I agree.John-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>>> > steve(at)byu.edu
Hmmm,I wonder if you could take this stuff, shape it, prime it with epoxyprimer,and tape and dope it to the strut, spray with colored dope (or Poly-t=one)and pretend it was balsa for a 'period' look?John-----Original Message-----=46rom: Howard Wilkinson Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 6:46 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: foam..... Streamlined tube>If somebody is going to foam streamline a strut, let me suggest the>use of polyurethane foam rather than "blue" foam which is an extrude=d>polystyrene. The blue XPS is not compatable with solvents and if>fibreglasses must be done with epoxy rather than polyester resin for>that reason. The blue foam is not as easy to shape except by hot>wiring. Polyurethane foam is crumbly and can easily be carved or>rasped into shape. rubbing two blocks of it together makes a fairly>good technique for shaping it. H.W.>>-----Original Message----->From: lolata >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 1:05 PM>Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>>>Why don't you use styrofoam (blue foam from DOW ) to make the>streamline>>and cover it with thin fiberglass.>>>>Luis Lolata (Pietenpol, my next aircraft !!)>>>>lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br>>>>---------->>> De: Ken Beanlands >>> Para: Pietenpol Discussion >>> Assunto: Re: Streamlined tube>>> Data: Ter=E7a-feira, 8 de Junho de 1999 16:27>>>>>> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried>several>>> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality woo=d>stores>>> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at wel=l>over>>> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>>>>>> Ken>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:>>>>>> > Yes>>> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the bac=k>side>>> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works>fairly>>> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".>>> > H.W.>>> >>>> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: bholbrook
Ken Beanlands wrote:> > I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried several> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!> > Ken A few of the old timers around here have already asked me about thePietenpol. Two have already asked me if I was going to use wooden strutsor metal. I just answered matter-of-factly, metal without questioningthem. I guess I should have asked. Is wood an option? What did theymean?Dannymac________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: dannymac
I've seen two Piets with wooden struts. Started to make them myself beforesettling on the aluminum streamline tube.The ones I have seen consisted of a laminated structure about one inch thickof two pieces of solid wood laminated around 1/4" birch plywood. One sethad fir, the other ash. Bolted fittings at the end. They were varnishedand looked nice.John-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>Ken Beanlands wrote:>>>> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried several>> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality wood stores>> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at well over>> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>>>> Ken>>> A few of the old timers around here have already asked me about the>Pietenpol. Two have already asked me if I was going to use wooden struts>or metal. I just answered matter-of-factly, metal without questioning>them. I guess I should have asked. Is wood an option? What did they>mean?>>Dannymac>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Warren Shoun
John Greenlee wrote:> > I've seen two Piets with wooden struts. Started to make them myself before> settling on the aluminum streamline tube.Unless it would be need for its strength, wouldn't ash be too heavy forthe size of the struts?________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: John Greenlee
The orginal struts on the Pietenpol didn't have jury strutsbut i bet a dollar to a doughnut that the would withstand morethan the negative 2 or 1 g's that i here people talk about. Arewe comparing apples to apples when comparing streamlines struts the cross sectional area may be the same asmodernized struts however the set of plans I have show4 crimps running the entire length of the strut thus thiswould of given much greater compression strength!-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> Howard Wilkinson
The aluminum aero-tubing that I had mentioned is a componemt of one of ourhigh-endbike frames. It normally arrives in 3 foot lengths and is internallybutted. I was lucky enoughto "scrounge" (5) 9 foot lengths that are straight gage and were used toprototype the frame.I will try to find out if this tubing could be bought "retail" from thesupplier. I am hoping to usethe tubing for lift struts.John Greenlee wrote:> I agree.>> John> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: lolata
We toasted a glass of champaigne to him for finishing his Piet. at ourannual Pietenpol Party. Jim Armstrong of Brussels Ontario went to visit himand brought back a slide show for us which we viewed at the party.Domenic ----------________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com
Mark: LEAF has streamlining material available in 10' lengths which willfair a strut measuring between 1" & 2". This material fits over yourexisting strut and is plastic..... weight is 5 oz per foot. LEAF part# A2685LEAF phone is 800-LEAF-INCH.W.-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> > Howard Wilkinson
Once again, that bicycle/airplane connection rears it's head. It's nowonder that the first plane was built by bicycle makers.KenOn Thu, 10 Jun 1999, mike cushway wrote:> The aluminum aero-tubing that I had mentioned is a componemt of one of our> high-end> bike frames. It normally arrives in 3 foot lengths and is internally> butted. I was lucky enough> to "scrounge" (5) 9 foot lengths that are straight gage and were used to> prototype the frame.> I will try to find out if this tubing could be bought "retail" from the> supplier. I am hoping to use> the tubing for lift struts.> > John Greenlee wrote:> > > I agree.> >> > John> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
Yes Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the back sideof the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works fairlywell and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".H.W.-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> > steve(at)byu.edu
If somebody is going to foam streamline a strut, let me suggest theuse of polyurethane foam rather than "blue" foam which is an extrudedpolystyrene. The blue XPS is not compatable with solvents and iffibreglasses must be done with epoxy rather than polyester resin forthat reason. The blue foam is not as easy to shape except by hotwiring. Polyurethane foam is crumbly and can easily be carved orrasped into shape. rubbing two blocks of it together makes a fairlygood technique for shaping it. H.W.-----Original Message-----=46rom: lolata Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 1:05 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Streamlined tube>Why don't you use styrofoam (blue foam from DOW ) to make thestreamline>and cover it with thin fiberglass.>>Luis Lolata (Pietenpol, my next aircraft !!)>>lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br>>---------->> De: Ken Beanlands >> Para: Pietenpol Discussion >> Assunto: Re: Streamlined tube>> Data: Ter=E7a-feira, 8 de Junho de 1999 16:27>>>> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I triedseveral>> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and speciality woodstores>> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking at wellover>> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>>>> Ken>>>> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:>>>> > Yes>> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to the backside>> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped worksfairly>> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period".>> > H.W.>> >>> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>>>> > steve(at)byu.edu
John: Polyurethane foam is the stuff of which the bodies of the Rutandesigns such as the EZs and Quickies were made. It was shaped and Ibelieve a light coating of epoxy resin combined with glassmicrospheres was painted on to seal the open porous surface beforeglass was applied. This foam is impervious to solvents as a rule, an=dall that would be required would be to glue it to the strut and shapeit after which it could be covered with doped tape..... It shouldn'tbe necessary to prime it. Blue foam on the other hand extruded polystyrene will dissolve inthe presence of most solvents (this foam was used in the wings and wa=shot wire shaped). Unfortunately polyurethane foam is not readilyavailable at your local hardware store as is the polystyrene bluefoam. The foam in a spray can used to fill gaps in construction isbasically a very similar polyurethane foam though it is a bit morerubbery and might be more difficult to shape. I suggest trying a bitof this on a piece of electrical conduit as a test.... it might makeacheap easy way to fair a strut if you could get a good do on it.=2E.... I have my doubts though. Perhaps a form of waxed metal piec=esclamped to the strut and the foam sprayed into the gap might be theanswer. The round strut would be the leading edge, so all you needfor a form are two pieces of material joined along one edge with theother edges resting on either side of the round piece for a form.This would give your streamline shape without any forming at all, andall you would need would be to wrap and dope it. Such a form wouldhave to be a short section which was moved up the strut a little at atime always lapping over the already foamed section. Waxed paperwould probably do the job as a mold release. No gluing, nopriming..... quick cheap and simple if it worked.H.W.-----Original Message-----=46rom: John Greenlee Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 5:50 PMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: foam..... Streamlined tube>Hmmm,>>I wonder if you could take this stuff, shape it, prime it with epoxyprimer,>and tape and dope it to the strut, spray with colored dope (orPoly-tone)>and pretend it was balsa for a 'period' look?>>John>>-----Original Message----->From: Howard Wilkinson >To: Pietenpol Discussion >Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 6:46 PM>Subject: foam..... Streamlined tube>>>>If somebody is going to foam streamline a strut, let me suggest the>>use of polyurethane foam rather than "blue" foam which is anextruded>>polystyrene. The blue XPS is not compatable with solvents and if>>fibreglasses must be done with epoxy rather than polyester resin fo=r>>that reason. The blue foam is not as easy to shape except by hot>>wiring. Polyurethane foam is crumbly and can easily be carved or>>rasped into shape. rubbing two blocks of it together makes a fairl=y>>good technique for shaping it. H.W.>>>>-----Original Message----->>From: lolata >>To: Pietenpol Discussion >>Date: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 1:05 PM>>Subject: Re: Streamlined tube>>>>>>>Why don't you use styrofoam (blue foam from DOW ) to make the>>streamline>>>and cover it with thin fiberglass.>>>>>>Luis Lolata (Pietenpol, my next aircraft !!)>>>>>>lolata(at)sercomtel.com.br>>>>>>---------->>>> De: Ken Beanlands >>>> Para: Pietenpol Discussion >>>> Assunto: Re: Streamlined tube>>>> Data: Ter=E7a-feira, 8 de Junho de 1999 16:27>>>>>>>> I guess you haven't priced out balsa wood in a while. I tried>>several>>>> sources including hobby shops (VERY expensive) and specialitywood>>stores>>>> (best price). To get enough to do my struts, I was looking atwell>>over>>>> $200 USD, and you still had to carve them to shape!>>>>>>>> Ken>>>>>>>> On Thu, 10 Jun 1999, Howard Wilkinson wrote:>>>>>>>> > Yes>>>> > Seems plenty expensive..... The old balsa glued to theback>>side>>>> > of the strut and wrapped with "pinked tape" and doped works>>fairly>>>> > well and isn't to expensive, It damn sure would look "period"=.>>>> > H.W.>>>> >>>>> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: mike cushway
> Subject: Streamlined tube>> >> > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs. Is> >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd like to> >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used> >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut> >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside the other> >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the group opinion> >here?> > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual ignition?> >> >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> >________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Randall Reihing
> > Subject: Streamlined tube> >> > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined> struts from cubs. Is> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to> tell? I'd like to> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard> wing strut> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded> inside the other> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's> the group opinion> > >here?> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or> going dual ignition?> > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> > >>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Howard Wilkinson
> > Subject: Streamlined tube> >> > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts from cubs.Is> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd liketo> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing strut> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside theother> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the groupopinion> > >here?> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dualignition?> > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> > >> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
>> > Subject: Streamlined tube>> >>> > >>> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined strutsfrom cubs.>Is>> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'dlike>to>> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used>> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wingstrut>> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded insidethe>other>> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's thegroup>opinion>> > >here?>> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual>ignition?>> > >>> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg>> > >>>>>>_______________________________________________________>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> >> > wayne
> Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > >To Mike Cushway and all,> >> >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the> streamline> >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,> and what> >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the> source?> >> >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out> >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?> >> >Mark Boynton> >Gilbert, Arizona> >> >> >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle> industry we> >call> >> it airfoil tubing)> >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The> major> >axis> >> is 3.125 and> >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it> would> >work> >> for lift struts.> >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.> >>> >> John Greenlee wrote:> >>> >> > I ain't no engineer but......> >> >> >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel> you'll> >gain> >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube> will carry> >a> >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N> T Y> >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and> corrosion.> >> >> >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.> >> >> >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've> never> >heard> >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and> causing> >an> >> > accident in a Piet.> >> >> >> > John> >> >> >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Ken Beanlands
> >> > Subject: Streamlined tube> >> >> >> > >> >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts> from cubs.> >Is> >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd> like> >to> >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used> >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing> strut> >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside> the> >other> >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the> group> >opinion> >> > >here?> >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual> >ignition?> >> > >> >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> >> > >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >_______________________________________________________> >> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> > >> > wayne
> > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > > > > >To Mike Cushway and all,> > >> > >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the> > streamline> > >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced internally,> > and what> > >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and what is the> > source?> > >> > >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about figuring out> > >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?> > >> > >Mark Boynton> > >Gilbert, Arizona> > >> > >> > >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle> > industry we> > >call> > >> it airfoil tubing)> > >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall auminum tubing. The> > major> > >axis> > >> is 3.125 and> > >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys think that it> > would> > >work> > >> for lift struts.> > >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.> > >>> > >> John Greenlee wrote:> > >>> > >> > I ain't no engineer but......> > >> >> > >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel> > you'll> > >gain> > >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube> > will carry> > >a> > >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a Cub are P L E N> > T Y> > >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and> > corrosion.> > >> >> > >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft steel was 1020.> > >> >> > >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small tubes. I've> > never> > >heard> > >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from negative gs) and> > causing> > >an> > >> > accident in a Piet.> > >> >> > >> > John> > >> >> > >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: steve(at)byu.edu
> > >> > Subject: Streamlined tube> > >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts> > from cubs.> > >Is> > >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way to tell? I'd> > like> > >to> > >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic said he used> > >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the standard wing> > strut> > >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was welded inside> > the> > >other> > >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the> > group> > >opinion> > >> > >here?> > >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single or going dual> > >ignition?> > >> > >> > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> > >> > >> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >_______________________________________________________> > >> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________> ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> > > >> > wayne
> > > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > > > > > > > >To Mike Cushway and all,> > > >> > > >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the> > > streamline> > > >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced > internally,> > > and what> > > >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and > what is the> > > source?> > > >> > > >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about > figuring out> > > >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?> > > >> > > >Mark Boynton> > > >Gilbert, Arizona> > > >> > > >> > > >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle> > > industry we> > > >call> > > >> it airfoil tubing)> > > >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall > auminum tubing. The> > > major> > > >axis> > > >> is 3.125 and> > > >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys > think that it> > > would> > > >work> > > >> for lift struts.> > > >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.> > > >>> > > >> John Greenlee wrote:> > > >>> > > >> > I ain't no engineer but......> > > >> >> > > >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel> > > you'll> > > >gain> > > >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube> > > will carry> > > >a> > > >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a > Cub are P L E N> > > T Y> > > >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and> > > corrosion.> > > >> >> > > >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft > steel was 1020.> > > >> >> > > >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small > tubes. I've> > > never> > > >heard> > > >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from > negative gs) and> > > causing> > > >an> > > >> > accident in a Piet.> > > >> >> > > >> > John> > > >> >> > > >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "BELLISSIMO, DOMENIC"
> > > >> > Subject: Streamlined tube> > > >> >> > > >> > >> > > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts> > > from cubs.> > > >Is> > > >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way > to tell? I'd> > > like> > > >to> > > >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic > said he used> > > >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the > standard wing> > > strut> > > >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was > welded inside> > > the> > > >other> > > >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the> > > group> > > >opinion> > > >> > >here?> > > >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single > or going dual> > > >ignition?> > > >> > >> > > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> > > >> > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >_______________________________________________________> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> > > > >> > wayne
> > > > Subject: Re: Streamlined tube> > > > > > > > > > > > >To Mike Cushway and all,> > > > >> > > > >Mike, could you give us all a little more information about the> > > > streamline> > > > >tubing you mentioned. As Steve asked, is it reinforced > > internally,> > > > and what> > > > >about cost? Also, is it difficult to get ahold of and > > what is the> > > > source?> > > > >> > > > >To anyone who would care to comment, how do you go about > > figuring out> > > > >acceptable dimensions and materials for streamline tubing?> > > > >> > > > >Mark Boynton> > > > >Gilbert, Arizona> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> While were on the subject of steamlined tubing (in the bicycle> > > > industry we> > > > >call> > > > >> it airfoil tubing)> > > > >> I have access to elliptical 6061-T6 x .065 wall > > auminum tubing. The> > > > major> > > > >axis> > > > >> is 3.125 and> > > > >> the minor is 1.1875. I would like to know if you guys > > think that it> > > > would> > > > >work> > > > >> for lift struts.> > > > >> Weight would work out to approx. 4.6 pounds per strut.> > > > >>> > > > >> John Greenlee wrote:> > > > >>> > > > >> > I ain't no engineer but......> > > > >> >> > > > >> > If you run the numbers out for either 1020 or 4130 type steel> > > > you'll> > > > >gain> > > > >> > some confidence that a quite small in section streamline tube> > > > will carry> > > > >a> > > > >> > Piet. I bet you'll figure the small tubes from a > > Cub are P L E N> > > > T Y> > > > >> > strong. The main thing is to inspect carefully for rust and> > > > corrosion.> > > > >> >> > > > >> > Remember that when the Piets originated aircraft > > steel was 1020.> > > > >> >> > > > >> > Some of the ones I've seen flying have pretty small > > tubes. I've> > > > never> > > > >heard> > > > >> > of a streamline tube failing (other than from > > negative gs) and> > > > causing> > > > >an> > > > >> > accident in a Piet.> > > > >> >> > > > >> > John> > > > >> >> > > > >> > -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Earl Myers
> > > > >> > Subject: Streamlined tube> > > > >> >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > Two questions. I've got a good stock of streamlined struts> > > > from cubs.> > > > >Is> > > > >> > >this likely to be 4130 or 1018/1020? Any easy way > > to tell? I'd> > > > like> > > > >to> > > > >> > >use some for the gear struts also. I think Domenic > > said he used> > > > >> > >streamlined - what size did you use? I Think the > > standard wing> > > > strut> > > > >> > >material would be too light but perhaps if one was > > welded inside> > > > the> > > > >other> > > > >> > >to double the thickness it would be sufficient. What's the> > > > group> > > > >opinion> > > > >> > >here?> > > > >> > > For the corvair users are you staying with single > > or going dual> > > > >ignition?> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >Wayne Sippola, Winnipeg> > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >_______________________________________________________> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________________> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________