Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Larry Ragan
Stick to bell crank: 1/8, 7/19aileron: 3/32, 7/19all others: 3/32, 7/7Controls: Elevator: 30 deg up & down with control stop.cockpit bell crank from hitting ply floor.So far, the above has worked for me.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Pietenpol-List: cablesWould someone please help me on cable tensions, I need to know for control and also rigging. Thanks Dave________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 08:31:00 -0400

Original Posted By: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
my controls are somewhere near 20lb. (one cable goes slack at extremes anyway)my cabane X bracing is about 60lb. my plans don't show the tensions but Ibased mine on what I have seen on other aircraft.DJ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jimmy Courtney

Original Posted By: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
For the rigging, they need to have roughly even pressure. The easiest way to findthat is to pluk them like a guitar string. If they fwang they are too loose,if they ping they are too tight. Try for a twang on all, then sight downthe spars for final adjustments. This works basically for the tail too.Dick N. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: WPTCorp(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cablesIn a message dated 6/8/04 10:25:24 PM Central Daylight Time, horzpool(at)goldengate.net writes:<< For the rigging, they need to have roughly even pressure. The easiest way to find that is to pluk them like a guitar string. If they fwang they are too loose, if they ping they are too tight. Try for a twang on all, then sightdown the spars for final adjustments. This works basically for the tail too. Dick N. ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Kip and Beth Gardner

Original Posted By: TBYH(at)aol.com
DNA: do not archiveIts-Bogus: do not forward to list--- MIME Errors --- A message with no text/plain section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using plaintext formatting. NOTE! This error can also occur when the poster of the message has a specific type of computer virus. This virus WAS NOT forwarded on to the List. The poster should be informed of the potential problem with their system as soon as possible.--- MIME Errors ---________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Clif Dawson
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cablesJeff,I used galvanized cables throughout. Stainless, I believe, is reserved for straight cable applications, not around pulleys.Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 22:58:48 -0800

Original Posted By: Clif Dawson

Original Posted By: "BYD"
So i did a couple of searches on here and found what looked like people are usingboth 3/32 and 1/8 stainless steel cables, so my question in what is the commonthat most are using? Thanks in advance@@--------www.vansavition.com follow my Piet rebuild there!almost dissasembled, getting ready to order all AN hardware and SS cableRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
If I recall correctly, the prints show all cables as 3/32 with the exception ofthe cables connecting the stick and the elevator bellcrank which are 1/8. Idon't remember what the "Jenny style gear" prints call out. Some decide to utilizelarger in some areas. If I missed a spot, I'm sure someone will point itout [Wink]Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By:> speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
=0A=0A=0AThe rivets, per the plans, are all steel.- There are several places online to order steel rivets, very cheap.- I think a box of 50 rivets cost me 5.00.- If you use the large, round-headed rivets which look better and are more original, you have to buy a special rivet head for it, from same place as rivets, cost about $15.- They drive very easily, but I alwaus use a 4X gun which has a large, heavy hammer and can go fairly slow.--The light, fast "skin guns" that sound like-one of those electric gatling cannons might not do too well on steel rivets.=0A-=0AGene-=0A> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 20:25:29 -0700

Original Posted By: "VanDy"
NX18235 has 1/8" 1X19 stainless steel on drag and anti-drag, lift strut bracing and landing gear bracing cables. 3/32" 7X19 stainless steel on cabane and empennage bracing. 3/32" 7X19 galvanized all control cables.Using 1/8" cable on the cabane bracing would be a good idea because these cables take a real beating when taxiing over rough ground.Greg Cardinal----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: shad bell

Original Posted By:> speedbrake(at)sbcglobal.net
The rivets=2C per the plans=2C are all steel. There are several places online to order steel rivets=2C very cheap. I think a box of 50 rivets cost me 5.00. If you use the large=2C round-headed rivets which look better and are more original=2C you have to buy a special rivet head for it=2C from same place as rivets=2C cost about $15. They drive very easily=2C but I alwaus use a 4X gun which has a large=2C heavy hammer and can go fairly slow. The light=2C fast "skin guns" that sound like one of those electric gatling cannons might not do too well on steel rivets.Gene> Date: Thu=2C 23 Sep 2010 20:25:29 -0700

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Hello Michael,It takes an air compressor, rivet gun, and bucking bar. If you don't have them,I would find a friend who does and do it there, it takes 10 mins. Would not recommenddoing by hand.Rivets are steel, $5.45 1/lb (about 100 rivets), and I think I used 26 (very inexpensive).I got 1 1/2" and 1 1/4".R.J. Leahy (http://www.rjleahy.com/Store/rivets/trvr.htm) is a small, very friendly company in CA. The 1 1/4" rivets were on back order, when they came in, they apologized and shipped without charging me. They have my business for life.....Steve--------Stevewww.mypiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Jim Markle

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Looks like i'll be there for the last ride in my cessna 120.. I sold it and willdeliver it tomorrow afternoon, but not until i make that last trip to lee bottom.Looking forward to inspecting a piet or two and building starts really soon.JeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 07:00:21 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cables

Original Posted By: "Bill Church"
FYI for the group, this was listed on our local online classifieds. www.ksl.comGo to classifieds, then to recreational vehicles, then to airplanes andscroll down the list and you can see the ad and pics.$800.00Lycoming 65 HP Motor (disassembled)RIGBY, ID 83442 Hard to find Lycoming 65 HP Motor. Motor is disassembled. Has goodcrank, etc. Motor was a spare motor for my BL 65 Taylorcraft. Soldaircraft.Dennis 208-745-0109BrianSLC-UTCont 0-200________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Actually, I believe that provided you use actual AIRCRAFT cable (as opposed tocommercial cable), both galvanized and stainless will have the necessary lubricationto provide better fatigue life required when flexing around pulleys. Withoutthat lubrication, the cables will be much more likely to fail where theyare repeatedly flexed and unflexed.Here's a link to Aircraft Spruce's webpage for aircraft cable:http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/a ... able.phpAs you can see, the stainless cable costs about twice as much as galvanized. Theimportant thing to note here is that both types of cables are true AIRCRAFTcable, which have specific and rigorous specifications that must be met. Commercialcable, which does not have the same rigorous standards, for some reason,is often called "aircraft cable". I would not use commercial cable in my plane.All of the cables are there for a specific task (either holding the plane togetheror allowing the pilot to control the plane), and should not be an areawhere the builder should be looking to save a few bucks. "Should be good enough"is NOT an appropriate attitude when choosing cables. If purchasing cablesfrom a non-aviation source, make sure you know what you are buying (like Genedid).As for preference between galvanized and stainless, that is up to the individual.For exposed cables, stainless sure looks nicer - especially after a few years,although some would argue that galvanized will look more authentic. I believeJack Phillips used stainless steel AIRCRAFT cable throughout his award winningPiet, and it looks really nice (and authentic).Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:28:10 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Not an authority for sure but I would say with the rusted crank flange it'stoast.JackDSM _____

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Van,Tried your site and it's a bad link. Have you got it going yet?JackDSM-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "VanDy"
Try this link...http://www.vansaviation.com/----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Well I haven't worked with Iron rivets in a long time but as a kid I set many ofthem with a Ball Peen hammer.of course they were going through steel sicklebars holding the cutters on but i seems to me like as long as you have an anvilto set the head against the method should work about the same.it didn't takelong to do one,the only think I can think of that might be a problem is whatkeeps the rivet from trying to swell inside the wood and split it? I never triedto rivet something like that but I would think if you don't have the equipmentdescribed it would be easy to make up a sample piece and just give the hammermethod a try. it is pretty easy with practice to work around the end of therivet with the round head and make a good shop head. RaymondRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: Jack
JackYou can soft solder galvanized coating. If you grind the galvanized coating ofyou willhave to brass braze it. I soft soldered a copper tube to the cap.Dale----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:> apfelcyber(at)yahoo.com
Someone else pipe up here if Im wrong=2C but I have no idea what would keep the wing from twisting around the vertical axis relative to the fuselage. With the configuration of a Piet or a GN-1 and parallel lift struts it would appear to me that you would have to have the cross bracing. Other designs get around this of course by the "V" configuration of the lift struts.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: helspersew(at)aol.com
Hi guys Hoping someone can help I have an L2A Lycoming 235 and am not sure if it is a type 1 or 2 dynafocal ringI have searched high and low and think it should be a type 1 but am not sure.Does anyone have the answer?CarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel cap ventDate: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:08:44 -0400

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuel cap vent

Original Posted By: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP

Original Posted By: "Chris"
Here is a link to Lycoming's website with an explanation at the very bottom. Icopied just that portion of the page.http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines ... -----Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers doneusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/a47_ ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
There are no wedges on the plans. The only place I added wedges are thecluster where the landing gear/wing strut fitting is bolted on and where theengine mount fittings bolt on. ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com _____

Original Posted By: KM Heide CPO/FAAOP
I think this one is what you want. It's O-235.http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines ... nteresting to see that they've made your engine withdynafocal mounts. My O-290 has conical.Clif> Here is a link to Lycoming's website with an explanation at the very > bottom. I copied just that portion of the page.> http://www.lycoming.textron.com/engines ... Insert.pdf>> --------> Jerry Dotson> 59 Daniel Johnson Rd> Baker, FL 32531>> Started building NX510JD July, 2009> wing, tailfeathers done> using Lycoming O-235________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 02:54:03 +0000 (UTC)

Original Posted By: "Chris"
It's not the lubrication that's the problem.We all know that a piece of wire will break if it's bentback and forth a number of times. Well, stainless willcrystalize and break a lot sooner than non stainless. As the cable moves back and forth over a pulley it is doing the same thing a little bit at a time. The question is, how long before that break will happen? The otherquestion is, how long before your cables, in yourlocation, where your plane will spend the rest of it'sdays, will rust and need replacement? To me, theformer is of greater concern and my plane will live500 ft from the shoreline of the Salish Sea in thecompany of forty others, some of which have beenthere since the fifties. There's also a hundred or soaircraft at Boundary Bay that are within a quarter mileof the same salty waters. All cabled with galvanizedand 85% of them have never seen the inside of ahanger.Ask around. I think for a lot of you, strange looks willbe the order of the day with the question, " Why doyou want to do that? It's not a seaplane is it?"Clif "Things which matter most must never be at the mercy of things which matter least." ~ Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Doesn't the zinc coating on the galvanized "lubricate" the cable?-- Dan Yocum yocum137(at)gmail.com "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things." what does going around a pulley have to do with galvanized vs stainless??? Gene________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
I finally got the website mostly working again. There are some links I needto redo but the majority of it is back. I will have to fix it later becauseI need to get my ailerons finished before it starts to rain, and the wife'scar needs to be back in the garage. ChrisSacramento, CaWestcoastpiet.com________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage question

Original Posted By: "K5YAC"
Actually, there are wedges mentioned in the plans. The only place I have seenthem noticed for the fuse sides are the three in the cockpit area. I glued thesein after the gussets were glued in place, but I suppose they could be addedat any time.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/fuse ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage question

Original Posted By: Ben Charvet
After reading Chris' note again, I think we are talking about the same wedges.Maybe we are all talking of the same wedges? Not sure.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 23:44:49 -0400

Original Posted By: "Clif Dawson"
Thanks for the replies but it still doesn't help me to determine if it is a type1 or 2I have found this but am not sure if I am reading it correctly If you look at L2A It reads similar to J2A then J2A is similar to J2B that hasa type 1 ring. So I read it as the L2A has the type 1http://150cessna.tripod.com/e-223.pdfI can't get it to work as a link so hope it will work if you cut and pasteWhat do you guys thinkCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Dangerous Dave"
KM,I'm in Alexandria, MN and would be interested in maybe meeting with both you and Vern.- I'm early in my build (started building ribs a week ago and have five done) but I'm interested in the Corvair engine.- Let me know.TomRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... 7#313797le, List Admin.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: "carson"
Why not ask Lycoming themselves? Give 'em the serial#.Clif> Thanks for the replies but it still doesn't help me to determine if it is > a type 1 or 2> What do you guys think> Carson________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: 0-235 info

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Thanks for the replies but it still doesn't help me to determine if it is a type1 or 2I have found this but am not sure if I am reading it correctly If you look at L2A It reads similar to J2A then J2A is similar to J2B that hasa type 1 ring. So I read it as the L2A has the type 1http://150cessna.tripod.com/e-223.pdfI can't get it to work as a link so hope it will work if you cut and pasteWhat do you guys thinkCarsonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
That's what the flying wires between the lift struts are for. Between themand the roll wires on the cabanes, the wing manages to keep itself alignedwith the fuselage.Jack PhillipsNX899JPRaleigh, NC _____

Original Posted By: CDAWSON5854(at)shaw.ca
stainless steel cables have been the standard for aircraft construction since the 1940's=2C and every single production plane in the world that I know of uses stainless cable. I didn't use it because I wanted to wrap/solder my connections=2C but there is absolutely nothing wring with stainless going around pulleys=2C period. If I lived near salt water=2C there is no question but that i would use sgtainless=2C though.Gene

Original Posted By: pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
That was my point to the person who bought a GN-1 without the lift strut wires. I wouldn't even think about getting in one without them. I'm amazed it has 40hrs on it.Doug DeverIn beautiful Stow Ohio

Original Posted By: "TriScout"
Well, I'm happy to report that the main tank is galvanized, not fiberglass. I'llstill have to cut through fiberglass to get to the tank, however. Dan-- Dan Yocumyocum137(at)gmail.com"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."On Sep 26, 2010, at 4:50 PM, Dan Yocum wrote:> > ...get leaks in their fiberglass fuel tank. What did you think I was talkingabout? > > Word to the wise, make your fuel tank as accessible as possible. Looks like I'llhave to cut into my center section blind to find out what's going in there.> > Humph. And leaves haven't even changed colors, yet. I might have to steal Ryanand Jess's Piet if I want to seem them, this year. > > -- > Dan Yocum> yocum137(at)gmail.com> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cables

Original Posted By: "Billy McCaskill"
No, it has 480hrs on it w/out the strut cables (not 40). Not sure if it ever hadcables before, but I suspect this one never had them. The guy that bought itas a project and rebuilt it after the mishap in back in 2000 never put cableson the struts. He only put a couple of hrs on it himself before I bought it..sansengine. He's the one that mentioned if a wing drops, it takes all she gotto get her back on an even keel. Now, the original builder could have had themon there, but maybe he didn't (?).. That mishap in 2000 also could have justbeen a simple stall on climbout if he took off at too low an airspeed. GuessI'll be adding the cables ..LarryN2308CRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Westcoastpiet Website

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
In the Sportplane Builder book, even Tony Bingelis emphatically said that the garageis no place to keep the family car(s)... --------Billy McCaskillUrbana, ILtail section almost done, starting on ribs soonRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:25:08 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Am I a Redneck?

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Larry,I think Grega left the cross bracing cables in place is because hisdiagonal brace are small and light tube, 1/2"X.032 I think. Also he justhas a small strap wrapped around the top of the cabane (not welded) toattach the diagonal brace to. Most Piet guys take the cross bracing cablesout after they get the wing location set. Hopefully they use heaver tubefor the diagonal brace and weld the fitting to the top of the cabane. Yourdiagonal braces look a little bigger than the braces on my GN-1. If youhave any second thoughts I would put cross braces in.Skip>> That reminds me. It finally dawned on me that the GN-1 that I bought isthe only one I've ever seen w/out the cross bracing cables that crisscrossbetween the wing struts. > Larry________________________________________________________________________________