Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: plywood ribs noticed the Piet written about used solid plywood ribs. Is this possible??> Yes, I owned an Ed Sampson built Piet for a few years that hadplywood ribs with cap strips. Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Clay Spurgeon
noticedthe Piet written about used solid plywood ribs. Is this possible??>Yes, I owned an Ed Sampson built Piet for a few years that had plywoodribs with cap strips.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam )I got my copy of Kitpalnes today andwhile readingthe article I noticedthe Piet written about used solid plywood ribs.Is thispossible??Yes, I owned an Ed Sampson built Piet for afew yearsthat had plywood ribs with cap strips.Mike B Piet N687MB ( Mr Sam)________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael Brusilow
I'd like to talk to someone that has actually built a Piet using plywoodribs. I'd like to know how much heavier it makes the wing.My VP-1 uses plywood ribs. They're much simpler and faster to make.GY -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Pat Panzera
Jay White; I bought a spruce kit from Western Ac. Supp. In Canada foraround 1,600.00 bucks plus $115 shipping. Wood was excellent. Also niceto have someone who knows wood get you all the right stuff. Also nice tohouses.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Bob Seibert"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs>>>Steve,>>For what it's worth, there was an article in KitPlanes a few years ago (i>have the issue if you want more info) about a guy in FL who built a Piet,>allegedly with ply ribs. Don't know if this is for real or inaccurate>reporting, but like I said, if you want more info, I can get it to you.>>Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward to>cutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law's>table saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things to>really small dimensions!>>Cheers!>>Kip Gardner>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:04:55 -0500

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Steve,Interesting to hear a cry for building help in the middle of a FAA bash-a-thon.Yes, plywood ribs are a possibility but they are heavy and expensive (aircraft plywood I mean).The stuff at Lowes may work but I'm not sure I would put my butt on the line to save a few hundred dollars. Actually, I haven't heard of a few ribs failing and bringing down a plane, just a costly repair to uncover, fix, and recover.The NACA (NASA before the space race) did several studies on rib design. If you get on their web site, you'll find several thousand reports on aircraft design covering all aspects. The nice thing is that it was for aircraft of the day: wooden and covered with fabric, just what you would be looking for.http://naca.larc.nasa.govAlso, I think I just went through what you are with rib designs, I was looking for a cheap and easy way to build ribs. I've written my finding down on my web page. Check out the Sitka Spruce Alternatives and Pober Super Ace pages.http://robertsjunk.tripod.comIf I had to start again, here's how I would do it: I would probably choose a good white pine (not Ponderosa Pine, I mean Eastern White) or Douglas Fir, it all depends on what your Lowes/Home Depot has. Sitka is great too but pricey. Make a good jig, it's worth it. For gussets, use a 2" hole saw and cut a bunch of circles. There's a way to do this and waste no plywood, just stagger the rows of circles. Cut the circles in half and... two gussets. I would make a full rib in the jig using T-88 and 1/4-20 nails. The nails would allow me to pull the rib out of the jig. Then I would use T-88 and big binder clips (you know, really big paper clips) and do the other side. When I had to, I would let the gussets run over the top of the rib and sand later, although I would try to just leave them a little short. The oozing T-88 made a nice fillet.Robert HainesMurphysboro, Illinois________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:16:51 -0400

Original Posted By: "John Dilatush"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: DAR ScamPieters,From the interest generated on the DAR subject and the FAA I get the idea that many of you have had a craw full for a long time but were too nice to explode. NEVER be afraid to state your opinion. All are NOT going to agree but the few that do will get it going just like right now and BOOM, somebody is going to get off their a-- and get to work. Corky, in La entertaining 22 old women today.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Joe Krzes"
05/10/2001 10:24:42 AMSteve,For what it's worth, there was an article in KitPlanes a few years ago (ihave the issue if you want more info) about a guy in FL who built a Piet,allegedly with ply ribs. Don't know if this is for real or inaccuratereporting, but like I said, if you want more info, I can get it to you.Actually, I like the hole-saw gusset idea, I've not been looking forward tocutting up ply into a bunch of little rectangles on my Father-in-law'stable saw - them things make me just a tad nervous when cutting things toreally small dimensions!Cheers!Kip Gardner________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Michael Brusilow"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribsSteve, Don't know of any Piets with Ply ribs. The idea is sound. Not sure of the weight increase with the ply ribs. Why don't you make one and see what the difference is. When I was making my ribs, I could do one about every night. Just lots of little sticks. I made up all the little pieces first, then went to town.Scott.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:
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Original Posted By: Jack Phillips

Original Posted By:
The man to contact is Earl Lawrence. Knowing Earl, he works very hard torepresent you as an EAAer and get the consideration you deserve. He does goto bat for you and makes sure that the weird "in the field" personalinterpretations are over come. Sort of levels the playing field. Hise-mail is elawrence(at)eaa.org.Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion ClubNewsletter Editor & EAA TCwww.bellanca-championclub.com----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy

Original Posted By: "fishin"
05/10/2001 02:46:28 PMJack,Thanks for passing on the information about the various books you havefound useful while building. A month or so ago, I recall Chris Bobkaoffering to handle the orders for books from EAA during their Spring booksale, which sounds like a great deal to me.Is the offer still good Chris? Is the sale coming up soon? (Are you stillon the List?)Cheers!Kip Gardner________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: del magsam
05/10/2001 03:19:29 PMGroup,Thanks to everyone who gave me alternatives to cutting gussets on a tablesaw!Most things are easier than I think once I hear other opinions - but thenmy wife claims that I have a tendency to do things the hard way!Cheers!Kip Gardner________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:21:04 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: kgardner(at)odu.edu
for cutting the 1/16" ply gussetts, I used the 2 1/8" hole saw and after cutout I used a pair of heavy duty sissors to cut them in two or quarters.worked like a charm, quick and easy no power tools needed for this lightweight stuff.regardsJoeC N99621Zion, IL-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: mboynton(at)excite.com

Original Posted By: "aussiegeorge"
I think the key here lies in the fine print at the bottom of the page.On the AS webpage, there is a note that says to refer to the plans and verify thatthe sizes and quantities are what is required. Although it really seems veryodd that the sizes and quantities listed on that website are different fromwhat they actually ship.I wouldn't place an order for one of these "kits" without doing a thorough checkof what they have included, as compared to the plans.This case has demonstrated fairly well that the "kits" are not necessarily complete,and do contain errors. The 3 foot piece of 3/4" x 1" is most likely theleading edge, and the 4 foot piece of 5/8" x 1 1/4" is for the trailing edge,and according to my calculations there should be 12 feet of 1" x 1" (main beam)for the tops and bottoms and the pieces that the hinges are mounted to, as wellas about 4 feet of 3/4" x 1" (center beam).According to the plans, the capstrips are 3/16" x 1/2", NOT 5/16" x 1/2" or 5/8"x 3/16", as mentioned in some of the responses.Additionally, the space between the gussets at the top of the fin is filled withsolid wood (I used spruce). And ALL of the gussets on the tail and fuselageare 1/8" thick, not 1/16".I would imagine that ordering your wood from AS one "kit" at a time would be agood way to needlessly add a significant amount to the final tally of buildingcosts, since the shipping costs will definitely be MORE to ship a bunch of smallerpackages, rather than one or two bigger parcels.Here's a tip: Order one (or two) of Aircraft Spruce's "bargain bag of spruce".There are lots of very useful pieces of spruce offcuts in each "bag". A VERY worthwhilepurchase - right, Dan H? That's where the filler block for the top ofmy fin came from (not to mention lots of other parts). Having a bundle of various-sizedchunks of spruce comes in very handy if you happen to misorder orneed to remake a part (not that I ever had to do THAT ).Hope some of this is helpful to you.Now, let's see how long it takes till you ask how all the different profiles ofthe various sticks are supposed to fit together. :)Bill C.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/top_ ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: plywood ribs

Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Has anybody fabricated the ribs out of plywood. I was looking at a 30 foot longcnc router the other day and it occurred to me that it could cut out some capstrips and fillers very quickly and they would all be the same. I was wondering if I am thinking of going where no man has gone before with this?Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
I have a small 18"X48" CNC router. It is pretty crude looking. I built it about10 years ago from wood to see if the idea would work. The plan was to build itfrom steel if it did. It has worked so well I wish I had took more time to makeit look good. It has 0.005" or less repeatability. I cut all the wing ribgussets and my panel with it. I'm looking for a pretty piece of plywood for mypanels. The one in the picture is just a cheap luan plywood test cut. It onlytakes about 5 minutes to cut and drill one. All done with a 1/8" carbide endmill. The USMC coaster is an engraving gift I made for a Marine currently serving.It is made from DuPont Corian counter top material.--------Jerry Dotson59 Daniel Johnson RdBaker, FL 32531Started building NX510JD July, 2009wing, tailfeathers done, fuselage rollingusing Lycoming O-235Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ttachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/usmc ... __________

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
Hi Ray,I can't say how much a single wheel weighs but the Jenny style gear on NX18235 weighs in at 60 lbs. This includes:Tires (3.50 X19)RimsSpokesAxleBungee cordsSpreader barsGear legsAll bracing cablesAll metal fittingsAll attachment hardwareNo brakesSee attached.The tires have since been shaved smooth which probably saved a couple of pounds.Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "DOMIT"
Very neat setup Do you have plans for your router x y table??Don________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs

Original Posted By: "Jerry Dotson"
Well i finally asked the right guy about a lumber yard... i was playing bluegrasswith a group of guys in southern Indiana Monday night and asked if any of themknew anyone at a local wholesale lumber yard.... lucky me.. found a guyi picked up 2, 16' and 2, 18' vertical grain beautiful spars... $232they are 5/4 x 6 sawn douglas fir.. need to be planed to size but they look great..So.. the one piece wing splice.... have you guys followed the plan on the splicecutting the angle on the wide side.... or on the 1" side like in ac 43-13 ??does that make sense ?jeffRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs

Original Posted By: "gtche98"
Not surprising. Although some are very faint, I think all of mine have line stamps.I ordered full lengths, so where one stamp might be too faint to read,a stamp further down the line might be more legible. My partner (the guy who ordered with me) ended up with some tubing that was notonly impossible to read, or even find a stamp... some of his was even damaged.Mr. Vogelsong insists that there was no damage to any of this tubing... heclaims that he knows this because he packaged it himself... yet there was no damageto the outer carton when we received it. I would like to add that I did end up getting the pieces that Dilsburg shortedme... from AS. They are a bit more expensive, but the material is smooth withbright yellow and easy to read line stamps... from Germany. The inside of thetubing looks like a mirror finish... I have no idea how they extrude metal tosuch a fine finish, but it looks great. Looking back at my experience, I think I could have purchased what I needed (plusa little extra) from AS for the same money, or perhaps slightly less than Ispent buying full lengths from Dillsburg. None of the lengths I needed required18' - 20', but I thought it would be nice to have some extra material around.As for shipping, USP Ground will haul up to 8' lengths, which would havecovered everything I needed, and would have been a far cry from the $255 freightcharge he surprised us with (he quoted $150). Anyhow, for anyone reading this that might need 4130 tube... please heed our warnings.I have looked at my material with a couple of experienced builders...the line stamps indicate... 4130, COND N, GRADE A, etc., they agree that it shouldbe up to the same ASTM standards that the rest of the industrialized worldadheres to, but articles like this one from Kiplingers make me a little uncomfortable.I'll be inspecting the pieces a little more closely that I plan to use on flyingassemblies. I know that these birds (and others) were made of 2120 and mildergrades of steel years ago, so hopefully this stuff is up to the task.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: plywood ribs

Original Posted By: Jim Markle
You can get the veneer just about anywhere. I have even found less exotic varietiesat Menard's...Another source:http://www.rockler.com/c/wood-veneer.cfmJust Google wood veneer and you will get thousands of hits. Locally, try a hardwoodlumber yard/mill or even a cabinet shop. They may have a scrap piece theywould sell you cheap.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 12:38:16 -0600 (GMT-06:00)

Original Posted By: Lawrence Williams
It's also got a B.S. stamp on it. Hmmm.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 11:21:46 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Rick Holland
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: project cost

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Rick wrote:> Breathing toxic fumes was a negative for me.Roger that... I'm not using that stuff if I don't have to.--------Mark ChouinardWings, Center Section and Empannage framed up - Working on FuselageRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 13:22:25 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez