Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 1999 10:27 pm**

Original Posted By:>> William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: CONTROL COLUMN PULLEY P/N'S>I'm thinking about not extending the flight controls to the front seat to1) save time and money and 2) because being 6'3"" probably would not be ableto flight train effectively from the front seat anyway. Am I making a bigmistake by not extending the flight controls to the front seat? This wouldallow me to use a 3 inch pulley in the front part of the control column.>Bart D Conrad>Boeing Field Service>DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc>Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192>Fax: 713-640-5891>Pager: 713-318-1625>>> ----------

Posted: **Mon Aug 30, 1999 10:27 pm**

Original Posted By:>> William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
Subject: Pietenpol-List: RE: CONTROL COLUMN PULLEY P/N'S>I'm thinking about not extending the flight controls to the front seat to1) save time and money and 2) because being 6'3"" probably would not be ableto flight train effectively from the front seat anyway. Am I making a bigmistake by not extending the flight controls to the front seat? This wouldallow me to use a 3 inch pulley in the front part of the control column.>Bart D Conrad>Boeing Field Service>DC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy Mtc>Phone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192>Fax: 713-640-5891>Pager: 713-318-1625>>> ----------

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 12:53 am**

Original Posted By:>> Conrad, Bart D
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CONTROL COLUMN PULLEY P/N'S>Walt,>There is no restriction on teaching in an experimental airplane! The only>restriction is that you can't use the airplane for hire. I've had several>primary students that baught homebuilts and I gave them their instructionin>their airplane and charged them for it. Many people think that since youcan't>rent the airplane out you can't use it for instruction, not so.>David>>walter evans wrote:>>> Bart,>> The way I see it is, you have to run the torque tube fwd anyway. Itwould>> only save putting in the joy stick and push/pull tube.. Sooner or later>> you'll want to let someone fly.>> If you mean to teach from the front seat as a CFI, It's not legal toteach>> in an experimental plane>> walt>> -----Original Message-----

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 9:49 am**

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
I am getting ready to order the materials for the control column. Does anyonehave a recommended part number for the three pulleys? I am thinking of usinga 3 inch pulley on the forward end, based on piet discussion comments from yesterday.Many of the pulleys in the supplier catalogs AS & S say...shall not beinstalled on frequently used aircraft controls to bend the cable more than 15degrees from a straight line. Thanks, BartBart D ConradBoeing Field ServiceDC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy MtcPhone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192Fax: 713-640-5891Pager: 713-318-1625________________________________________________________________________________

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 9:54 am**

Original Posted By: Burroughs
>I am getting ready to order the materials for the control column. Bart- Many guys have used the pulley sizes spec'd out on thePiet plans with no problems......but one tip here: use galvanized cablenot stainless. The wise older IA who runs our airport told me all the bracecables can be stainless but anything that will move or go round a pulleyshould be galvanized.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 12:42 pm**

Original Posted By:> Michael D Cuy
That being said, I too have seen the note in the ASSCO catalog regarding limitingdirection change to 15 degrees, and have become concerned about the tight bendradius of the front elevator control cable around the 2" pulley shown in the plans.I guess I need to do three things:-Reread AC43-13 to see what bend radius is required for a given change in direction. I looked once and didn't find it; a less cursory reading is probably in order.-Assemble the torque tube into our fuselage to see if increasing the sizes of the control pulleys to 3" is achievable given the clearance under the front seat.(This is not as easy as it sounds, since the fuselage is actually sitting in my partner's garage 30 miles away).-Check our control cables to see if we ordered galvanized or stainless.Surely there's someone that's been through this before?....-Bill> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:54:56 -0400

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 12:55 pm**

Original Posted By:> Michael D Cuy
Dozens.I used SS throughout, and a 2 inch pulley. No problems in 160 hours. Goodthings to add to my annual inpection however.Steve e.-----Original Message-----William C. BeermanSent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 11:42 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: Re: CONTROL COLUMN PULLEY P/N'SThat being said, I too have seen the note in the ASSCO catalog regardinglimiting direction change to 15 degrees, and have become concerned about the tightbend radius of the front elevator control cable around the 2" pulley shown in the plans.I guess I need to do three things:-Reread AC43-13 to see what bend radius is required for a given change indirection. I looked once and didn't find it; a less cursory reading is probably inorder.-Assemble the torque tube into our fuselage to see if increasing the sizesof the control pulleys to 3" is achievable given the clearance under the frontseat. (This is not as easy as it sounds, since the fuselage is actually sitting in mypartner's garage 30 miles away).-Check our control cables to see if we ordered galvanized or stainless.Surely there's someone that's been through this before?....-Bill> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:54:56 -0400

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 1:32 pm**

Original Posted By:> Greg Cardinal
Greg,You're right, and this should have been obvious to me. Looks like 2" pulleysin back, and 3" in front (or a push/pull tube). With all the little detailsto concern oneself with, sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees.I'll happily resume building now; thanks much for the help!-Bill > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:12:51 -0600

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 2:12 pm**

Original Posted By:> Michael D Cuy
According to the Aeronautics Safety Code published by SAE in 1925, therecommendation for control pulley size is "20 times the cablediameter".For 3/32 cable the pulley should be 1.875" and for 1/8 cable thepulley should be 2.5".Also, on the Pietenpol, the front pulley is on the centerline of thetorque tube and the control column connecting tube is offset to theside of the control column so there won't be any interference even ifyou use a 3" pulley.Alternately, use a push/pull tube from the control column to theelevator bellcrank. Will Graf did this, I elected to do this also. Noreal reason to do this other than it cleans up the cockpit(flightdeck?) nicely.Later, Greg Cardinal>>> "William C. Beerman" 08/31 11:42 AM >>>That being said, I too have seen the note in the ASSCO catalogregarding limiting direction change to 15 degrees, and have become concerned about thetight bend radius of the front elevator control cable around the 2" pulley shown in theplans.I guess I need to do three things:-Reread AC43-13 to see what bend radius is required for a givenchange in direction. I looked once and didn't find it; a less cursory reading is probablyin order.-Assemble the torque tube into our fuselage to see if increasing thesizes of the control pulleys to 3" is achievable given the clearance under thefront seat. (This is not as easy as it sounds, since the fuselage is actually sitting inmy partner's garage 30 miles away).-Check our control cables to see if we ordered galvanized orstainless.Surely there's someone that's been through this before?....-Bill> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:54:56 -0400

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 2:25 pm**

Original Posted By:> William C. Beerman[SMTP:wcb(at)bbt.com]
I'm thinking about not extending the flight controls to the front seat to 1) savetime and money and 2) because being 6'3"" probably would not be able to flighttrain effectively from the front seat anyway. Am I making a big mistake bynot extending the flight controls to the front seat? This would allow me touse a 3 inch pulley in the front part of the control column.Bart D ConradBoeing Field ServiceDC-9/MD-80/DC-10 & 737 Heavy MtcPhone: 713-640-5882/713-324-4192Fax: 713-640-5891Pager: 713-318-1625> ----------

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 4:32 pm**

Original Posted By: Conrad, Bart D
Bart,The way I see it is, you have to run the torque tube fwd anyway. It wouldonly save putting in the joy stick and push/pull tube.. Sooner or lateryou'll want to let someone fly. If you mean to teach from the front seat as a CFI, It's not legal to teachin an experimental planewalt-----Original Message-----

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 4:40 pm**

Original Posted By: Conrad, Bart D
I was thrown by that note in the catalog. I think what they're saying isthat no more than 15deg side to side offset where it leaves the pulley ( asto rub sideways on the side webs). If you look at a cub cables where thestrut meets wing, it turns about a 90 deg. Or all wing cables on a piet.They are talking about like where the cable comes off the upper and loweraileron pulley on the Piet.,as the aileron makes full travel, the cabledoesn't exit the pulley perfectly perpendicular. Thats the 15 deg inquestion.walt-----Original Message-----

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 5:43 pm**

Original Posted By:> Conrad, Bart D
Walt,There is no restriction on teaching in an experimental airplane! The onlyrestriction is that you can't use the airplane for hire. I've had severalprimary students that baught homebuilts and I gave them their instruction intheir airplane and charged them for it. Many people think that since you can'trent the airplane out you can't use it for instruction, not so.Davidwalter evans wrote:> Bart,> The way I see it is, you have to run the torque tube fwd anyway. It would> only save putting in the joy stick and push/pull tube.. Sooner or later> you'll want to let someone fly.> If you mean to teach from the front seat as a CFI, It's not legal to teach> in an experimental plane> walt> -----Original Message-----

Posted: **Tue Aug 31, 1999 6:33 pm**

Original Posted By: David B. Schober
David, Oh, I see, thats how it's written. I was told by a local female instructor, who teaches with her planes. There was a chance for her to buy anexperimental plane. I mentioned that she could teach in it. Thats when shetold me, but I took it as not legal at all.But still , Bart spoke of being 6'3" and him teaching from the front seat ofhis plane, which , I guess, he still can't do.walt-----Original Message-----

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 1999 7:26 am**

Original Posted By: "Conrad, Bart D"
Steve,Yes, but most of those hours were "Interstate" miles. (smile) Probably alot less wear and tear (except on your rear). TedBTW, great write up of the trip. I was reading parst of it yesterday and itbrought back a flood of good memories.>Dozens.>>I used SS throughout, and a 2 inch pulley. No problems in 160 hours. Good>things to add to my annual inpection however.>>Steve e.________________________________________________________________________________

Posted: **Wed Sep 01, 1999 10:15 am**

Original Posted By: Ed0248(at)aol.com
Thanks Ted,Interstate miles, Well mostly, except when I got bored and did a few milesinverted, then knife edge, and some hammerheads, and rolling 360's. Steve E.-----Original Message-----BrousseauSent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 6:27 AMSubject: Pietenpol-List: RE: CONTROL COLUMN PULLEY P/N'SSteve,Yes, but most of those hours were "Interstate" miles. (smile) Probably alot less wear and tear (except on your rear). TedBTW, great write up of the trip. I was reading parst of it yesterday and itbrought back a flood of good memories.>Dozens.>>I used SS throughout, and a 2 inch pulley. No problems in 160 hours. Good>things to add to my annual inpection however.>>Steve e.________________________________________________________________________________

Posted: **Mon Sep 06, 1999 9:25 am**