Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: building wings Although this is my second project, I've never built a wing thisbig. I've.... routed the spars attached the ply for the strut fittings dry fitted the ribs on spars ( wing is big) and squared I guess my questions are these.... I planned to secure wing assy squared, and glue ribs, then addcompression struts, then add nose ply, then add the turnbuckles andcabling to maintain squareness.................. is this what you guysdid? thanks everyone, walt________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Gary Meadows
Although this is my second project, I've never built a wing this big. I've....routed the sparsattached the ply for the strut fittingsdry fitted the ribs on spars ( wing is big) and squaredI guess my questions are these....I planned to secure wing assy squared, and glue ribs, then addcompression struts, then add nose ply, then add the turnbuckles andcabling to maintain squareness.................. is this what you guysdid?thanks everyone,waltAlthough this is my second project,I've neverbuilt a wing this big. I've....routed the sparsattached the ply for the strutfittingsdry fitted the ribs on spars (wing isbig) and squaredI guess my questions arethese....I planned to secure wing assysquared, and glueribs, then add compression struts, then add noseply,then add the turnbuckles and cabling to maintainsquareness.................. isthis what you guys did?thanks everyone,walt________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: User554784(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: building wings>>>How do you put the washout in? With the struts or the drag>wires? Or?>>Mike Bell>Columbia, SC>>>Michael D Cuy on 09/10/99 07:58:51>AM>>Please respond to Pietenpol Discussion >>To: Pietenpol Discussion >cc:>Subject: Re: building wings>>>Walt->>I second the motion about wing flexibility. Even after the>whole>thing is ready for cover, you will find the wing still flexes>torsionally>alot. Not to worry. The installation on the plane with struts>will>stop this in a hurry...and fabric shrinking will help it along.>You'll be able to build in washout if you like too at the>trailing>edge with this flexibility.> The point I'm trying to make is that square is important, but>flat wise, I simply built both my wing panels on two sawhorses>and just sighted down the ribs to make sure I sanded the high>ones. Actually I used a yardstick and it you lay it on edge>and try to 'rock' it and it rocks, you have a high rib somewhere.>You don't want to build in a twist and that's real easy to level>up with some blocks of wood...and again, closing one eye>and sighting works fine- ala suggested by Tony Bingelis in>his books...and it works.>>Mike C.>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: walter evans
Walter; This is the same sequence I used to build the 13 wing panels that Ihave done thus far. After sliding the ribs on, square it up, keep itthere and start glueing ribs. It will seem way too flexible even withcompression struts. When you tighten the x wires or cable, it REALLYgets stiff. My ribs have the extra vertical pieces that glue to the faceof the spar as opposed to those pesky little wedges under the topcapstrips.........that made a big difference in wing stiffness prior tothe x braces...............Earl Myers -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
In a message dated 9/9/99 8:42:00 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes:>Walt,I built my wing a little different from you, because my living room / dining room wasn't long enough to do it laying flat (that's right, I'm not married !!). I had to build it standing it up, with the trailing edge up, leading edge down (about 12" off of the floor), extending out through the back door, on to the enclosed in back porch. I put 1/4" X 2' plywood on the carpet, the full length of the wing. I then built 5 jigs to support the 3/4" spars, on to which I slid the cedar ribs, temporarily removing each jig, as I slid the stack of ribs past. Then the 1/8" X 28" ply doublers in the center section, and 1/8" X 18" doublers at the lift strut attachment points. I kept the spars straight by using a laser beam pen (this ol' house has crooked floors), shimming the pen with paper, then shimming the support jigs. The most important thing to do is get it straight & square. Building the wing in this attitude gave me easy access to the top & bottom of the wing. I now have the fabric on the top & bottom, and I'll complete the wing with paint (brushed on), before removing it from the house, right out thru the front door. I hope the neighbors are watching as we carry the thing all the way to the street, to get it out of the house !! I have lots of pictures of each stage of construction, and hope to get them on the aircamper site soon.I'm looking forward to our 1st Annual Pietenpol Fly-In, at Benton KS, this Saturday!!Chuck GantzerWichita KS (Aviation Capital of the World)________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Wkoucky(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: building wings>>Walter.....Don't listen to Earl M. (absolutely just kidding here...the>guy is a walking>CD rom disk on aviation..)>>Some other things to think about when wing building- don't do as I did and>tighten>your drag and anti-drag cables too tight without installing the compression>struts->ESPECIALLY the TIP bow. I left the tip bow off and as I tightened thingsup>the end ribs literally exploded. Sounded like a balloon.>>Tip two- do not permanently glue or bolt your wingtip bow in place until>AFTER you have cut, and slid in your aileron spars. I found out again, the>hard way.>The aileron should be complete before you ever cut it away from the rest ofthe>wing. I'm sure others have built them on the bench, but if you want a goodfit>and less headaches, do it on the wing. (it looks cool too:)>>Mike C.>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Doug
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: building wings>Walt->>I second the motion about wing flexibility. Even after the whole>thing is ready for cover, you will find the wing still flexes torsionally>alot. Not to worry. The installation on the plane with struts will>stop this in a hurry...and fabric shrinking will help it along.>You'll be able to build in washout if you like too at the trailing>edge with this flexibility.> The point I'm trying to make is that square is important, but>flat wise, I simply built both my wing panels on two sawhorses>and just sighted down the ribs to make sure I sanded the high>ones. Actually I used a yardstick and it you lay it on edge>and try to 'rock' it and it rocks, you have a high rib somewhere.>You don't want to build in a twist and that's real easy to level>up with some blocks of wood...and again, closing one eye>and sighting works fine- ala suggested by Tony Bingelis in>his books...and it works.>>Mike C.>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Walter.....Don't listen to Earl M. (absolutely just kidding here...theguy is a walkingCD rom disk on aviation..)Some other things to think about when wing building- don't do as I did andtightenyour drag and anti-drag cables too tight without installing the compressionstruts-ESPECIALLY the TIP bow. I left the tip bow off and as I tightened things upthe end ribs literally exploded. Sounded like a balloon. Tip two- do not permanently glue or bolt your wingtip bow in place untilAFTER you have cut, and slid in your aileron spars. I found out again, thehard way.The aileron should be complete before you ever cut it away from the rest of thewing. I'm sure others have built them on the bench, but if you want a good fitand less headaches, do it on the wing. (it looks cool too:)Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: David Scott
Walt- I second the motion about wing flexibility. Even after the wholething is ready for cover, you will find the wing still flexes torsionallyalot. Not to worry. The installation on the plane with struts willstop this in a hurry...and fabric shrinking will help it along.You'll be able to build in washout if you like too at the trailingedge with this flexibility. The point I'm trying to make is that square is important, butflat wise, I simply built both my wing panels on two sawhorsesand just sighted down the ribs to make sure I sanded the highones. Actually I used a yardstick and it you lay it on edgeand try to 'rock' it and it rocks, you have a high rib somewhere.You don't want to build in a twist and that's real easy to levelup with some blocks of wood...and again, closing one eyeand sighting works fine- ala suggested by Tony Bingelis inhis books...and it works.Mike C. ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Walter; This Cuy fella..I just don't know!.....DO NOT MESS with the x brace cabletightening untill you have every last stick in that wing, ailerons included!As Mr. Cuy said, the compression struts keep everything "apart" whentensioning the x cables. The x cables got tightened dead last as I removedthe items that kept the wing square to begin with. Remember the wingribissue? Using the extra pieces in those ribs (as Charlie Rubek makes them, aperfect set!) to glue to the spar and not the capstrip kept the wing nearlysquare when I removed the "squaring clamps"....the wing stayed put with nobuilt in stress. After the wing (mine is 1 piece) was pronounced "done",THEN you cut out the ailerons and the flop! Using the wing gap seal/pianohinge like Mr. Cuy used, the aileron attachment was a piece of cake, theaileron looked like a piece of the wing, not a part added on if you knowwhat I mean. The tip bow takes a lot of various stresses so make sure it isPERMENTLY on there (glued, T-88 of course) when you crank the wires down. Mybow was installed at first with little wood screws into the ends of thespars, that got it "made" into the LE and TE. I removed it, slid the beveledaileron spar in then rescrewed & GLUED/gusseted the bow on. The aileroninternal pieces were then added. Don't forget all the extra pieces you haveto add to keep the fabric from bending things.....!Earl Myers-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Gary Meadows
How do you put the washout in? With the struts or the dragwires? Or?Mike BellColumbia, SCMichael D Cuy on 09/10/99 07:58:51AMPlease respond to Pietenpol Discussion cc:Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: building wingsWalt-I second the motion about wing flexibility. Even after thewholething is ready for cover, you will find the wing still flexestorsionallyalot. Not to worry. The installation on the plane with strutswillstop this in a hurry...and fabric shrinking will help it along.You'll be able to build in washout if you like too at thetrailingedge with this flexibility. The point I'm trying to make is that square is important, butflat wise, I simply built both my wing panels on two sawhorsesand just sighted down the ribs to make sure I sanded the highones. Actually I used a yardstick and it you lay it on edgeand try to 'rock' it and it rocks, you have a high rib somewhere.You don't want to build in a twist and that's real easy to levelup with some blocks of wood...and again, closing one eyeand sighting works fine- ala suggested by Tony Bingelis inhis books...and it works.Mike C.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Michael,I want to pause reading my messages here and respond to what you just said,this eases my mind.My first project was a short wing , Fisher 404, and it used the geodetic design , which was criss cross thin strips top and bottom. when thesewere glued, the wing was like a rock. No twist what so ever.so now i'm thinking that I have to get this huge wing straight, flat and notwist.I've already found that the spars take care of themselves up and down. Thewhip I can take care of with a chalk line. But didn't know how to assure toget wing flat without renting a transit.Now with what you're telling me , I'm comfortable with top of spars beinggood with a level.thankswalt-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> walter evans
I doubled the drag wires,and comp.struts(4 drag sets per panel),vairpower,had it on the scales,dry wieght with only the instrument panel coversoff ,is 643LBS,this includes an electrical system also.Alum. steamlinedstruts saved 9 lbs over cut down piper struts.Using 3/4 spars,not routed,3mil birch ply doubler plate at fittings etc. Doug Hunt

Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
Walt... The procedure I follow is to attach all fittings, slide on ribs (of course some of the fittings can only go on after the ribs have been positioned. Cut compression members to size and install without gluing. Then do a preliminary squaring of the structure, make up and install all of the cable assemblies and trammel. Mark rib positions, loosen but do not remove cable, slid ribs aside to glue, reposition and nail. Check squarness by re-trammeling. Position and glue compression members. Recheck trammel. Tighten turnbuckles while continuously checking squarness with trammel. Install leading and trailing edges. Hope this helps, Don Hicks________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Copinfo
In a message dated 9/10/99 1:06:05 PM Central Daylight Time, mbell(at)sctcorp.com writes:>Mike,The purpose of washout is to maintain a smooth airflow over the ailerons, after the inboard portion of the wing has stalled. Washout is reserved for wing planforms OTHER than hershy bar wings, such as a tapered wing. A hershy bar wing will naturally initiate the stall on the inboard portion of the wing, therefore it could actually have a negative effect on lift, at a given angle of attack. Keep it simple, as Bernie intended it to be !!Chuck GantzerWichita KSThey're callin' for rain on Saturday, for the Benton Fly-In. %*$#%&$#&%* !!!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Mike Bell
Washout is done either with tilting the last 3 ribs via thicker spacersunder the capstrips or (&better, easier) at the wing strut attach points,rear fittings being longer to achieve thisEarl Myers-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> Michael D Cuy
> > Michael,> I want to pause reading my messages here and respond to what you justsaid,> this eases my mind.> My first project was a short wing , Fisher 404, and it used the geodetic> design , which was criss cross thin strips top and bottom. whenthese> were glued, the wing was like a rock. No twist what so ever.> so now i'm thinking that I have to get this huge wing straight, flat andno> twist.> I've already found that the spars take care of themselves up and down.The> whip I can take care of with a chalk line. But didn't know how to assureto> get wing flat without renting a transit.> Now with what you're telling me , I'm comfortable with top of spars being> good with a level.> thanks> walt> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: VAHOWDY(at)aol.com
> Subject: Re: building wings> > > >Walt-> >> >I second the motion about wing flexibility. Even after the whole> >thing is ready for cover, you will find the wing still flexestorsionally> >alot. Not to worry. The installation on the plane with struts will> >stop this in a hurry...and fabric shrinking will help it along.> >You'll be able to build in washout if you like too at the trailing> >edge with this flexibility.> > The point I'm trying to make is that square is important, but> >flat wise, I simply built both my wing panels on two sawhorses> >and just sighted down the ribs to make sure I sanded the high> >ones. Actually I used a yardstick and it you lay it on edge> >and try to 'rock' it and it rocks, you have a high rib somewhere.> >You don't want to build in a twist and that's real easy to level> >up with some blocks of wood...and again, closing one eye> >and sighting works fine- ala suggested by Tony Bingelis in> >his books...and it works.> >> >Mike C.> >> ________________________________________________________________________________