Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: jmcnarry(at)techplus.com (John McNarry)
are there any piet owners out there who are using thecorvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont users,but it would be helpful to me to hear some input fromactual users of the corvair. or some that have contactwith users of that engine.Is it walt evans that isshowing pictures of the corvair? what can you tell meabout?=====________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:>> del magsam
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair engines>is there any way to talk to him or find out whose or>what design, and his feelings for the engine?>>--- walter evans wrote:>> Del,>> I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for a>> friend. But that was an>> engine( or two) that he had designed and built . One>> for a Piet and the>> other for another homebuilt. They are a very unique>> design.>> walt evans>> I'm using A65>> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> del magsam
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair engines>is there any way to talk to him or find out whose or>what design, and his feelings for the engine?>>--- walter evans wrote:>> Del,>> I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for a>> friend. But that was an>> engine( or two) that he had designed and built . One>> for a Piet and the>> other for another homebuilt. They are a very unique>> design.>> walt evans>> I'm using A65>> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:>> del magsam
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair engines>have you flown with a continental? and if you have,>how would you compare the two? thanks for your>thoughts!>del>>--- B and V Dearinger wrote:>> Del I flew 150 hours behind a corvair engine.It>> was a 164 cu in that we>> bored .060 and installed forged pistons and put arp>> bolts in the rods.Also>> stainless valves and a 3 angle valve job.Made a prop>> flange and carved a>> wood prop for it.Used a home made intake and a 65>> cont carb slung>> underneath.Ran battery ignition and used a small>> harley davidson 6 volt>> battery.Worked flawless.Put out 80 solid horsepower>> on 4 gal per hour of>> auto premium gas.Unfortunately it was not on a piet>> but a small midwing>> single seat.Bill>> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: del magsam
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair engines>are there any piet owners out there who are using the>corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont users,>but it would be helpful to me to hear some input from>actual users of the corvair. or some that have contact>with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that is>showing pictures of the corvair? what can you tell me>about?>>>=====>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: del magsam
Del, I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for a friend. But that was anengine( or two) that he had designed and built . One for a Piet and theother for another homebuilt. They are a very unique design.walt evans I'm using A65-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> del magsam
is there any way to talk to him or find out whose orwhat design, and his feelings for the engine?--- walter evans wrote:> Del,> I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for a> friend. But that was an> engine( or two) that he had designed and built . One> for a Piet and the> other for another homebuilt. They are a very unique> design.> walt evans> I'm using A65> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: del magsam
Sure, His name is Dick Lawson 973-383-7821 ( Northern NJ) Licenced AP,building , repairing, and designing airplanes for over 50 years. Still sharpas a tack. He has been my Mentor , through this, my second project.He had also built a Piet ( Ford Powered, years ago.) And he had spoken toBernard , a number of times.walt evans-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: del magsam
Del I flew 150 hours behind a corvair engine.It was a 164 cu in that webored .060 and installed forged pistons and put arp bolts in the rods.Alsostainless valves and a 3 angle valve job.Made a prop flange and carved awood prop for it.Used a home made intake and a 65 cont carb slungunderneath.Ran battery ignition and used a small harley davidson 6 voltbattery.Worked flawless.Put out 80 solid horsepower on 4 gal per hour ofauto premium gas.Unfortunately it was not on a piet but a small midwingsingle seat.Bill-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By:> del magsam
have you flown with a continental? and if you have,how would you compare the two? thanks for yourthoughts!del--- B and V Dearinger wrote:> Del I flew 150 hours behind a corvair engine.It> was a 164 cu in that we> bored .060 and installed forged pistons and put arp> bolts in the rods.Also> stainless valves and a 3 angle valve job.Made a prop> flange and carved a> wood prop for it.Used a home made intake and a 65> cont carb slung> underneath.Ran battery ignition and used a small> harley davidson 6 volt> battery.Worked flawless.Put out 80 solid horsepower> on 4 gal per hour of> auto premium gas.Unfortunately it was not on a piet> but a small midwing> single seat.Bill> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: del magsam
Del We came across a C90-8 cont real cheap in good condition and removedthe corvair and installed the cont.Had to make the motor mount severalinches longer as it was considerably lighter.Was not nearly so smoothrunning but takeoff and climb were much better.Cruise about the same.Fuelconsumption about the same.This was 10 years ago but seems like there wasabout 40 pounds difference in weight.Had a 64 inch wood prop on corvair and69 inch metal prop on c90.Of course cont had 200 cu in and corvair had about170 but corvair compression ratio much higher. Was around 9 to 1.Continentalwas much easier to mount, cool ,and cowl .Used factory parts mostly.Corvairhad to be fabricated.Thats where the big difference is.Building speed.Spentmoney for cont and build faster or fabricate with corvair and take longerbut much cheaper.If had to complain on corvair ,would be was hard to baffleto cool evenly because of design.We did not use fan.Without an extension onprop hub , prop is close to engine. Bill-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Subject: Pietenpol-List: corvair enginesI got my motor from Barry Owens , paid $300 and he put it in my SUV for me.. I am willing to bet he 336-250-0966 Lexington ,NChas at least 50 motors that I saw there.Ted Stone**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?n ... 0000000020)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:55:53 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aluminum in place of metal fittingsSounds complicated. Why don't you just stick to the plans? Can't go wrong. Has been tested many times over. There will be many opportunities to customizeother parts of your airplane along the way. Dan HelsperPoplar Grove, IL.**************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?n ... 0000000020)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 00:26:21 -0400 (GMT-04:00)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
go to:http://www.maddyhome.com/corvairsrch/search for Bill Clapp, see results under:Jul 5, 2008 CorvAircraft> Re: KR> Who bought my stuff / Bill Clapp flykr2s@charter.netJun 22, 2008 CorvAircraft> setting the record straight N56ML(at)hiwaay.netMar 7, 2008 CorvAircraft> Issues with Bill Clapp, Long Post- WilliamTCA@aol.com Mar 9, 2008 Re: CorvAircraft> Enough on the character assassination n56ml@hiwaay.net=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2008 06:14:46 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Mike,In general, if-you plan to substitute materials from those shown in the plans, you had better know what you are doing.For instance, with regards to substituting aluminum plate for the control horns, you should be aware (maybe you are already) that if you weld aluminum, many alloys are severely weakened at the weld location (for 6061 the reduction is about 40% within one inch of the weld).Aluminum also does not have a fatigue limit, unlike steel. What this basically means is that steel will not be affected by fatigue (repeated cycles of tension and compression)-unless it is stressed above a certain level, whereas aluminum will feel the effects of fatigue at any level of stress. Eventually, the aluminum could develop cracks due to fatigue.Also, the solid aluminum control horns will definitely end up heavier than the hollow, formed sheet metal horns shown in the drawings. As an example, the aileron control horn has a surface area of approximately 19 square inches on one side. Two thicknesses of 22ga (.03") mild steel (or 4130) will weigh about 0.33 lb. One thickness of 3/8" aluminum will weigh approximately 0.7 lb - or twice as much. Of course, you could machine the-aluminum into a bit of an airfoil shape, which-would save a few ounces. But then you will still need to add bracing angles and nuts and bolts-to mount this solid aluminum horn. Attached is a photo of such an aluminum aileron horn (by someone else), which was cut from 1/4" aluminum plate. I would estimate that this whole arrangement weighs approximately 2 to 3 times as much as a plans-built control horn.-So, in conclusion, just make sure you do your homework before you start changing from the plans.-Bill C.-

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Make sure when you find one it's the engine you want, which is a late('65 - '69) 110hp. Chevy made a number of different engines for Corvairsand some of them you really don't want. Do your homework before you buy.Jim-----Original Message----->From: Rick Holland >Sent: Jul 23, 2008 3:42 PM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Where to look-- Corvair>>I just called a few local junkyards and got lucky. Pulling the engine>yourself can be fun (just bring a floor jack), you meet some real>interesting (strange) people at a junkyard.>>Rick>>On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:37 PM, PatrickW wrote:>>>>> I found mine by asking around at an EAA meeting. One of the guys>> remembered a junkyard a couple hours away that had some Corvairs, andI was>> able to find my core there.>>>> I also joined a local Corsa Chapter that provided some leads. Otherideas>> would be to ask local auto mechanics if they have any ideas on whereto find>> one. Maybe put a "wanted" ad in a local paper. There's craigslist.orgtoo.>>>> Don't give up searching - the hunt is kinda fun! Take your cameraso you>> can take pictures if it's still in a car someplace.>>>> Once I started looking I had a couple leads, and ended up grabbing a1967>> core.>>>> Patrick>> http://picasaweb.google.com/Patrick.Hoy ... vairEngine>>>> -------->> Patrick>> 601XL/Corvair>> N63PZ (reserved)>>>>>>>>>> Read this topic online here:>>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... >>>>>>>>-- >Rick Holland>Castle Rock, Colorado________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:20:43 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
Antoni;There is a very good archive of photographs of many Pietenpols at Chris Tracy's website, http://westcoastpiet.com/pictures.htmAlso another good resource for you is DJ Vegh in Arizona, who built a very nice RC model of the GN-1. You can see some of his work at http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/log/gallery.htmOscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:42:31 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,In general, if you plan to substitute materials from those shown in theplans, you had better know what you are doing.For instance, with regards to substituting aluminum plate for the controlhorns, you should be aware (maybe you are already) that if you weldaluminum, many alloys are severely weakened at the weld location (for 6061the reduction is about 40% within one inch of the weld).Aluminum also does not have a fatigue limit, unlike steel. What thisbasically means is that steel will not be affected by fatigue (repeatedcycles of tension and compression) unless it is stressed above a certainlevel, whereas aluminum will feel the effects of fatigue at any level ofstress. Eventually, the aluminum could develop cracks due to fatigue.Also, the solid aluminum control horns will definitely end up heavier thanthe hollow, formed sheet metal horns shown in the drawings. As an example,the aileron control horn has a surface area of approximately 19 squareinches on one side. Two thicknesses of 22ga (.03") mild steel (or 4130) willweigh about 0.33 lb. One thickness of 3/8" aluminum will weigh approximately0.7 lb - or twice as much. Of course, you could machine the aluminum into abit of an airfoil shape, which would save a few ounces. But then you willstill need to add bracing angles and nuts and bolts to mount this solidaluminum horn. Attached is a photo of such an aluminum aileron horn (bysomeone else), which was cut from 1/4" aluminum plate. I would estimate thatthis whole arrangement weighs approximately 2 to 3 times as much as aplans-built control horn.So, in conclusion, just make sure you do your homework before you startchanging from the plans.Bill C. _____

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
No problem, Mike.Actually, I think a lot of people are intimidated by the control horns asshown in the plans. But I don't think they are really that tricky. And whenthey are well made, they are a really nice looking feature. I'm lookingforward to building those little jobbies. I'll be making mine soon (I hope)so we'll see if I have to eat my words on that one. But, 20 or 22ga steel isfairly easy to manipulate, and once it gets those curves bent into it (forthe airfoil shape) it will become quite rigid. The most challenging partwill be welding the light gauge metal, which, in my case, I will likely getdone for me by someone who knows what they are doing.It has been said that Bernard Pietenpol designed the Air Camper so that itcould be built by a person with average skills and equipment, usingmaterials that were readily available. When you consider that that wasalmost 80 years ago, and the advancements in technology and equipment thathave occurred since then, there really is no reason why anyone todaywouldn't be able to build one of these planes. If it means that some of usget to learn a few new skills along the way, then, as you say, "I'm downwith that" too.Enjoy the journey you're embarking on. It may not be a fast trip, butthere's lots to see and do along the way. And when you are finishedbuilding, you can take your creation on another journey - also not a fasttrip, but with lots to see and do along the way.Bill C. _____

Original Posted By: Owen Davies

Original Posted By: "walt"

Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"

Original Posted By:

Original Posted By: "Lazlo Almasi"
Michael:Santiago Morete's project.If you can read Spanish you will find some good advise regarding the design, if not just enjoy the photoshttp://www.aracuan.com.ar/pietenpol.htmMichael ... ______Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:58:01 -0500

Original Posted By: "Lazlo Almasi"

Original Posted By: Michael Perez
You know, there's a guy on the Corvair list that findsand puts up Craigslist engines from all over the country.You should sign up if you already haven't.Corvair engines for homebuilt aircraft Clif ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "KMHeide, BA, CPO, FAAOP"
Michael; you can contact Raymond Hanover (rhano(at)att.net) for the name of a friendup in Wyoming that has a Corvair he has cleaned up and stored along with aWynne manual.Oscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:04:06 -0700 (PDT)

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Michael,-I have not seen the =93Riblett=94 design, so cannot comment on that. I will say, though, that making ribs according to BHP is not difficult, though somewhat tedious. To break the tedium, I simply have a board set aside with the rib template and work in ribs in conjunction with everything else. At my present rate it will probably take about a year to complete the ribs, while completing tail and fuselage. The scraps of mahogany plywood from fuselage construction work great to make into gussets! -Happy Building,Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage(10 ribs down=85)

Original Posted By: "Gary Boothe"
One Six Right to play on PBS soon acording to AOPA news buletinhttp://www.terwilligerproductions.com/onesixri ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Michael,I have not seen the "Riblett" design, so cannot comment on that. I will say,though, that making ribs according to BHP is not difficult, though somewhattedious. To break the tedium, I simply have a board set aside with the ribtemplate and work in ribs in conjunction with everything else. At my presentrate it will probably take about a year to complete the ribs, whilecompleting tail and fuselage. The scraps of mahogany plywood from fuselageconstruction work great to make into gussets! Happy Building,Gary BootheCool, Ca.PietenpolWW Corvair ConversionTail done, working on fuselage(10 ribs down.) _____

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: Gordon Brimhall
> Subject: corvair engines> > > >are there any piet owners out there who are using> the> >corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont> users,> >but it would be helpful to me to hear some input> from> >actual users of the corvair. or some that have> contact> >with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that is> >showing pictures of the corvair? what can you tell> me> >about?> >> >> >=====> >> >> > =====________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: B and V Dearinger
>> Subject: corvair engines>>>>>> >are there any piet owners out there who are using>> the>> >corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont>> users,>> >but it would be helpful to me to hear some input>> from>> >actual users of the corvair. or some that have>> contact>> >with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that is>> >showing pictures of the corvair? what can you tell>> me>> >about?>> >>> >>> >=====>> >>> >>>>>>>>=====>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: John Duprey
>> Subject: corvair engines>>>>>> >are there any piet owners out there who are using>> the>> >corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont>> users,>> >but it would be helpful to me to hear some input>> from>> >actual users of the corvair. or some that have>> contact>> >with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that is>> >showing pictures of the corvair? what can you tell>> me>> >about?>> >>> >>> >=====>> >>> >>>>>>>>=====>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> >> del magsam
> Subject: Re: corvair engines> > > >is there any way to talk to him or find out whose> or> >what design, and his feelings for the engine?> >> >--- walter evans wrote:> >> Del,> >> I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for> a> >> friend. But that was an> >> engine( or two) that he had designed and built .> One> >> for a Piet and the> >> other for another homebuilt. They are a very> unique> >> design.> >> walt evans> >> I'm using A65> >> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
> >> Subject: corvair engines> >>> >>> >> >are there any piet owners out there who are> using> >> the> >> >corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont> >> users,> >> >but it would be helpful to me to hear some input> >> from> >> >actual users of the corvair. or some that have> >> contact> >> >with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that> is> >> >showing pictures of the corvair? what can you> tell> >> me> >> >about?> >> >> >> >> >> >=====> >> >> >>> http://auctions.yahoo.com> >> >> >>> >>> >> >> >=====> >> > =====________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:>> >> del magsam
>> Subject: Re: corvair engines>>>>>> >is there any way to talk to him or find out whose>> or>> >what design, and his feelings for the engine?>> >>> >--- walter evans wrote:>> >> Del,>> >> I was the one who posted the corvair pics, for>> a>> >> friend. But that was an>> >> engine( or two) that he had designed and built .>> One>> >> for a Piet and the>> >> other for another homebuilt. They are a very>> unique>> >> design.>> >> walt evans>> >> I'm using A65>> >> -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: leonstefanhutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
>> >> Subject: corvair engines>> >>>> >>>> >> >are there any piet owners out there who are>> using>> >> the>> >> >corvair. It seems the majority are ford or cont>> >> users,>> >> >but it would be helpful to me to hear some input>> >> from>> >> >actual users of the corvair. or some that have>> >> contact>> >> >with users of that engine.Is it walt evans that>> is>> >> >showing pictures of the corvair? what can you>> tell>> >> me>> >> >about?>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >=====>> >> >>> >>>> http://auctions.yahoo.com>> >> >>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >=====>> >>>>>>>>=====>________________________________________________________________________________