Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood landing gearI am interested in the wood landing gear but the flying and glider manualisnt really cclear on this ssubject (pixs/words) If yall can help me inthis area I would appreciate it!SteveSteve W GN-1 builderIHA #6________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood landing gearIn a message dated 11/26/1999 10:08:20 PM Central Standard Time, vistin(at)juno.com writes:>everything you send Steve, I recieve in triplicate(???) you work for govt? LOLJohn D (#10)________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: kirk
Kirk, that would be me talking about the string thing at Brodhead. Itworked out great, and I have since made my gear legs. I am on my way out towork right now, but will give a more detailed description of how I did itthis evening. The number one thing I had to learn is that the ash blocks atthe bottom are not parallel, but are "toed out" at the leading edge quite abit more than you would expect. The second big trick is to cut your blanksshort and clamp them together with a third piece between them so that youget the ends cut correctly without having to worry about the exact length.(this probably does not make any sense, but I will explain better later,gotta go now)Gene Rambo________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 08:30:31 -0600

Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"

Original Posted By: kirk
OK, I am home now with a glass of wine in hand. Before I start, I didn'tmake any of this up, but was told about it by Jack Phillips, I believe. Itreally works!!!!! Keep in mind, this is how I did it, not that it is THEcorrect way or THE only way.First, I positioned the fuselage. I did some measuring and looking over theplans and located the proper position for the axle given my wheel size(distance aft of the firewall and distance down from the upper longeron). Idiscovered that I could position the lower ash blocks for the gear correctlyby placing the tailpost on the floor and clamping two 2x4's vertically tothe firewall. With the fuselage like this, the ash blocks rested on thefloor at the correct angle in relation to the fuselage. (Actually, I placedthe ash blocks on a piece of particle board, with a small scrap the samethickness under the tailpost. This way, I could screw down small blocks tohold the ash pieces in place, and could draw a center line and axle line onthe board.) A plumb bob off of the center of the firewall and a stringpulled from the tailpost gave my centerline so I could place the ash blocksat the correct width. (If I was to do this again, I would take two 1x4's,drill a 1-1/4" hole in both, run my axle tubing through the holes, and clampthe boards to the sides of the fuselage so that the axle is positionedproperly and cannot move. Then the axle can rest on the ash blocks and thetail on the floor at the proper angle)I then marked the locations on the fuselage side where the side braces wouldattach. I marked the front and rear side of both side braces. I taped fourpieces of string to the four marks right on the lower corner of thefuselage. Tape the four strings to the outboard edge of the ash block intheir correct locations. Then, you can back up and sight down the strings.You twist the ash block until all four strings line up. What you have doneis make the outboard faces of the side braces (which, of course, are flat)line up perfectly. They also, by chance, point directly toward thetailpost.With the strings pulled tight, you can take an angle measuring tool andmeasure the angles inboard/outboard and fore/aft for the angle cuts. Usinga miter chop saw, the angles are a breeze to cut (except that the rear legis too flat an angle to cut on the saw, which only goes up to 90 degrees andyou have to do some fancy math and use a wedge block to make it, but you'llfigure it out) Using short pieces of your wood, make the angle cuts untilthe piece will fit and line up with the strings. Then clamp the endstogether with a piece in the middle for length and you have your pattern! Ionly did one side and made the mirror image for the opposite.The more I write, the more I realize I sound like a raving lunatic, butbelieve me, it is much easier than it sounds. If I can clear any of it up,please ask.Gene----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Back in the old days (OK, when I was a kid!) Dad used one of the "iron" formost of his Ham radio repairs -- always on the kitchen table, 'cause he usedthe front burner of the kitchen stove to keep it up to temperature!Now, if we could get some proper "tern plate" (steel sheet with the lead/tincoating - used to be used for flashing & Model "A" gas tanks??!)Mike CPretty Prairie, KS----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "The Huizenga's"

Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
Jim:I am just finishing up a 26ga GI gas tank, WITH SOLDERED SEAMS. I amfortunate to have a retired sheet metal contractor friend who is my guru.He has a 50+ year old acetelene torch/soldering iron which directs a flameonto the rear end of copper iron about 1" square cross section. Used amuriatic acid "flux" and 50/50 bar solder. The 50/50 is the correct typefor GI work. Also used old tinners soft iron rivets for the mechanicalbond.A large iron is a must for a smooth job. You can find old copper heavy ironsin some antique tools sections of antique shops. Then have to use a torchor gas stove burner to heat it.Hope this helps.Lou Larsen----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Does anyone onboard know the demensions of a Piper J-3 Cub gas tank?thanksdcombs________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
I put the tailpost itself on the floor. By my measurements, the missingheight of the tailwheel is about the same as the missing height of the wheelfrom the center of the axle to the ground. I am going to build mytailwheel/skid to make the tailpost that height.Gene________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Michael Conkling
Most sheet metal shops I have seen have terneplate, there is one a fewblocks from my house that has it. The only problem to me is that it is soheavy. I think I'll go with aluminum and tig weld it.Gene Rambo----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: ""
I am building a short fuselage Pietenpol. I am getting ready to install mylower cabane fittings on the fuselage. Here is my question. I assume thefittings a bolted through the top longeron and the strut on each side. Ontop of these are 1/8" ply stiffners with cross struts. My cross struts meetthe longeron exactly where the upright strut does too. Is that how othersdid too? If so, do you cut the cross struts at each end so the cabanefitting can be bolted on?On a slightly (but maybe the real problem) different note. I bought thisfuselage partially completed. It came with plans. I have been working oneverything but the fuselage since. I just pulled some measurements andcompare them to the plans. They don't all match. I have fuselage plans #1dated 1-19-33. The dimension from the front of the firewall to the #3upright strut is 14 1/2" on the plans but only 12" on my fuselage. The restof the stations seem to more or less match. I am now wondering if Ishouldn't have a different plan for at least the fuselage? Maybe that wouldalso solve the question I posed above.Thanks,Ted BrousseauNaples, FLWhere it finally has started to cool down.________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: What size soldering iron?

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
To solder up a gas tank you would use a tin smiths iron. They do or at least thay did at one time come as electric as well as the solid bar type to be heated with a flame. My father had an American Beauty 300 watt iron which had a 1 inch diameter chisseltype tip for working tin sheet. we used to heat it up with a torch to savetime the 300 watt element would heat it up but it took longer than we were willingto wate . The thing was big a weighed about five pounds. I doubt if youcould find one today I have sean many of the 100 watt American beauty irons overthe years. I believe my brother ended up with my fathers. Benzomatic made apropain torch atachment soldering tip which as I recall worked well. It gaveyou a lot more control over how much heat you would apply thus helping with theover heating problems of using a torch on thin stuff. Gene in St Louis Can a Web portal forever change your life?Win up to $25 Million on iWon - click here!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Skip Gadd"
Thanks for the credit, Gene. To me, this was the single most difficult taskin the entire project. It took me over a month to figure out the angleproblem, so I'm glad I was able to pass my solution on to help you andothers.I did essentially what you did, Gene. I did have my tailwheel in place andmounted my axle (actually a "dummy" axle) through 2x4's clamped to thefuselage and then built the struts and V blocks around that.I have some pictures of the process that I can email to any that areinterested.JackOK, I am home now with a glass of wine in hand. Before I start, I didn'tmake any of this up, but was told about it by Jack Phillips, I believe. Itreally works!!!!! Keep in mind, this is how I did it, not that it is THEcorrect way or THE only way.First, I positioned the fuselage. I did some measuring and looking over theplans and located the proper position for the axle given my wheel size(distance aft of the firewall and distance down from the upper longeron). Idiscovered that I could position the lower ash blocks for the gear correctlyby placing the tailpost on the floor and clamping two 2x4's vertically tothe firewall. With the fuselage like this, the ash blocks rested on thefloor at the correct angle in relation to the fuselage. (Actually, I placedthe ash blocks on a piece of particle board, with a small scrap the samethickness under the tailpost. This way, I could screw down small blocks tohold the ash pieces in place, and could draw a center line and axle line onthe board.) A plumb bob off of the center of the firewall and a stringpulled from the tailpost gave my centerline so I could place the ash blocksat the correct width. (If I was to do this again, I would take two 1x4's,drill a 1-1/4" hole in both, run my axle tubing through the holes, and clampthe boards to the sides of the fuselage so that the axle is positionedproperly and cannot move. Then the axle can rest on the ash blocks and thetail on the floor at the proper angle)I then marked the locations on the fuselage side where the side braces wouldattach. I marked the front and rear side of both side braces. I taped fourpieces of string to the four marks right on the lower corner of thefuselage. Tape the four strings to the outboard edge of the ash block intheir correct locations. Then, you can back up and sight down the strings.You twist the ash block until all four strings line up. What you have doneis make the outboard faces of the side braces (which, of course, are flat)line up perfectly. They also, by chance, point directly toward thetailpost.With the strings pulled tight, you can take an angle measuring tool andmeasure the angles inboard/outboard and fore/aft for the angle cuts. Usinga miter chop saw, the angles are a breeze to cut (except that the rear legis too flat an angle to cut on the saw, which only goes up to 90 degrees andyou have to do some fancy math and use a wedge block to make it, but you'llfigure it out) Using short pieces of your wood, make the angle cuts untilthe piece will fit and line up with the strings. Then clamp the endstogether with a piece in the middle for length and you have your pattern! Ionly did one side and made the mirror image for the opposite.The more I write, the more I realize I sound like a raving lunatic, butbelieve me, it is much easier than it sounds. If I can clear any of it up,please ask.Gene________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> Ted Brousseau
Ted,I built a couple fuselages to the F&G plans, there are several differencesthat you may want to change if your fuse was built to these plans.One difference is the vertical distance from top to bottom longeron is 25",this is not a problem unless you were going to half a 4X8 peice of ply tocover the side.The other differences I decided to improve, as in 1934 improved plans.The diagonal in the pilot pit goes the wrong way, that is opposite to the34 plans.The long gusset's at the lower longeron aft of the pilot pit are missing onthe F&G plans as is the large gusset at the tail post.As was noted the F&G fuse is about 2" shorter than the 34 plans fuse andalmost all of the difference is in the first bay, this means you have to beextra dillagent building the aft of CG part of the fuse lighter because youhave a 2" shorter lever forward of CG to balance the tail. Probably meansthe engine will have to be atleast 2" further forward.Hope this helpsSkip> [Original Message]

Original Posted By: Skip Gadd
Also, keep in mind that the F&G plans do not have the ash pieces across thefloorboard between the gear attach points, but only a 1x1 piece. This onlymatters if you are building the spreader-bar "Jenny" type landing gear. Youhave to use onlt the 1x1 if you are going to build the fittings to theplans.Gene Rambo----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jack Phillips
Just because the tailwheel has shock absorbing capabilities, whatever thedesign, I opted to do the rigging with it off just so nothing can move.Other than that, it is the same.Gene----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "The Huizenga's"

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane attach points>> > I am building a short fuselage Pietenpol. I am getting ready to installmy> lower cabane fittings on the fuselage. Here is my question. I assume the> fittings a bolted through the top longeron and the strut on each side. On> top of these are 1/8" ply stiffners with cross struts. My cross strutsmeet> the longeron exactly where the upright strut does too. Is that how others> did too? If so, do you cut the cross struts at each end so the cabane> fitting can be bolted on?> > On a slightly (but maybe the real problem) different note. I bought this> fuselage partially completed. It came with plans. I have been working on> everything but the fuselage since. I just pulled some measurements and> compare them to the plans. They don't all match. I have fuselage plans#1> dated 1-19-33. The dimension from the front of the firewall to the #3> upright strut is 14 1/2" on the plans but only 12" on my fuselage. Therest> of the stations seem to more or less match. I am now wondering if I> shouldn't have a different plan for at least the fuselage? Maybe thatwould> also solve the question I posed above.> > Thanks,> > Ted Brousseau> Naples, FL> Where it finally has started to cool down.> > > > > --- Skip + Cinda Gadd--- csfog(at)earthlink.net________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:
> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cabane attach points> >> > >> > I am building a short fuselage Pietenpol. I am getting ready to install> my> > lower cabane fittings on the fuselage. Here is my question. I assumethe> > fittings a bolted through the top longeron and the strut on each side.On> > top of these are 1/8" ply stiffners with cross struts. My cross struts> meet> > the longeron exactly where the upright strut does too. Is that howothers> > did too? If so, do you cut the cross struts at each end so the cabane> > fitting can be bolted on?> >> > On a slightly (but maybe the real problem) different note. I boughtthis> > fuselage partially completed. It came with plans. I have been workingon> > everything but the fuselage since. I just pulled some measurements and> > compare them to the plans. They don't all match. I have fuselage plans> #1> > dated 1-19-33. The dimension from the front of the firewall to the #3> > upright strut is 14 1/2" on the plans but only 12" on my fuselage. The> rest> > of the stations seem to more or less match. I am now wondering if I> > shouldn't have a different plan for at least the fuselage? Maybe that> would> > also solve the question I posed above.> >> > Thanks,> >> > Ted Brousseau> > Naples, FL> > Where it finally has started to cool down.> >> >> >> >> >>>> --- Skip + Cinda Gadd> --- csfog(at)earthlink.net>>________________________________________________________________________________