Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Glang007(at)aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strutsI need too know the usual length of the lift struts and uprights on anaverage for the pietenpol. ThanksSteveSteve W - Pietenpol in construction!GN-1--<(next project).IHA #6________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: woodflier(at)aol.com

Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"

Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Another drawback of urethane foam is the initial shaping. It can behot-wire cut but it takes a lot more heat than polystyrene and, worse, itoff-gasses some awful stuff, phosgene, I think. It needs to be cut inreally good ventilation if hot-wired. It does saw and sand very easily, butleaves some very stubborn dust.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Leon,For a different approach to streamlining of round lift struts, check outthis website. http://personal.southern.edu/~dascott/w ... s.htmlThis guy uses styrofoam rather than balsa. He wraps the styrofoam with Vinyltarp repair tape, rather than linen and dope - I imagine dope would not becompatible with the styrofoam. Using styrofoam cut with a hot wire is a lotcheaper than balsa, and should be pretty easy to get decent results. Bill C.-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Ryan Mueller"

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
These are spherical rod ends (which I highly recommend for a Pietenpol, since they allow the wing to be repositioned fore and aft to accommodate CG positioning.- Straight rod ends will not allow the struts to be at an angle to the chord line).- Radial refers to the sperhical bearing.- Since the strut is radial to the center of the bearing, a radial load in the bearing translates to an axial load in the strut.- The other load specified for such pieces is an axial load in the bearing ' in other words, a load trying to push the spherical bearing out of the rod end in the direction of the bolt axis.- Confused???--Jack PhillipsNX899JP

Original Posted By: "Richard Schreiber"
Y'know, I almost started to mention shaping the streamlines for round tubing outof foam but I've seen first-hand what the Poly-Fiber (Stits) materials do whenthey even get close to foam. Same as gasoline... the foam dissolves in aninstant. However, urethane foam is immune to those effects so any of the readily-availableurethane foams could be used to shape the streamlines on round tubingand could then be covered with fabric and finishes and it wouldn't matterif the Poly-Brush, Poly-Spray, or Poly-Tone got through the fabric. Or, usinglatex house paint, everything would be completely compatible.Some of the benefits of urethane foams: very light, very easy to shape (can evenbe 'sanded' using a block of the same foam), and not affected by fuels or mostsolvents. Even a wood guy can work with this stuff ;o) Drawbacks: the foamis sort of fragile and is very dependent on the covering to provide protectionagainst dings, and is also sensitive to sunlight so applying silver or otherUV block is essential. Obviously, latex house paint would be perfect in thatdepartment. I'd have to guess that balsa would be more forgiving with dingsbut urethane is cheaper, just as light, and quite easy to shape and fill.The gear legs on my Flying Squirrel are round tubing but I've infilled the vees with polystyrene foam and fiberglassed over the whole thing to make them look sort of like Cub gear. Photos are at http://www.flysquirrel.net/gear/gear.html and pictures of the final product are a couple of photos down on my home page at http://www.flysquirrel.netOscar ZunigaAir Camper NX41CCSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Figure it out. The lift struts go into the wing panel at just about themiddle, so they essentially carry all the lift loads (the cabane strutscarry very little load on a Pietenpol). Assuming a gross weight of 1200lbs, at 5 G's (ultimate loading) that means the wings must support 6000lbs, or 3,000 lbs per wing panel. If the front struts carry 2/3 of theload, they are carrying 2,000 lbs of LIFT each. To find the tensileload in the strut you've got to figure the total load is the lift loaddivided by the sine of the angle. Assuming your struts are at a 30degree angle to the horizontal, each front strut will be carrying anaxial load of 2,000 lbs/.50 or 4,000 lbs.I used HMX Rod Ends from Aircraft Spruce for mine. 5/16" screw threads,rated at 5,390 lbs radial load each. I don't understand your referenceto a 45,000 psi stress, although I guess if you calculate the area ofthe threade portion you could deduce the stress involved. Assuming thediameter is 5/16", the rod ends I used would be good for about 70,000psi.Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212 _____

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
Figure it out.- The lift struts go into the wing panel at just about the middle, so they essentially carry all the lift loads (the cabane struts carry very little load on a Pietenpol).- Assuming a gross weight of 1200 lbs, at 5 G=92s (ultimate loading) that means the wings must support 6000 lbs, or 3,000 lbs per wing panel.- If the front struts carry 2/3 of the load, they are carrying 2,000 lbs of LIFT each.- To find the tensile load in the strut you=92ve got to figure the total load is the lift load divided by the sine of the angle.- Assuming your struts are at a 30 degree angle to the horizontal, each front strut will be carrying an axial load of 2,000 lbs/.50 or 4,000 lbs.-I used HMX Rod Ends from Aircraft Spruce for mine.- 5/16=94 screw threads, rated at 5,390 lbs radial load each.- I don=92t understand your reference to a 45,000 psi stress, although I guess if you calculate the area of the threade portion you could deduce the stress involved.- Assuming the diameter is 5/16=94, the rod ends I used would be good for about 70,000 psi.-Jack Phillips, PE Sr. Manager, Disposable Products Research & Development Cardinal Health Clinical Technologies & Services Creedmoor, NC (919) 528-5212

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshops> > I went to welding classe a couple nights a week for three years. Certified stick.Was working on the MIG cert and TIG certs when the > administrative types started making noises that they'd rather have > a food service curriculum than welding. I backed off focusing on > the certs and practiced all kinds of everything they had. Never > got to play with the plasma torch or weld plastic (they didn't > have a plastic rig), but did everything else available in the shop.> > Part of my problem with having access to the really nice toys in > that class is that it's emotionally harder to accept having to > work on a lesser piece of equipment at home. Specifically, the TIG > machines I used were all water-cooled. I've had my reservations > about air-cooled machines, but if I got to spend a little quality > time with one I imagine I'd get over it. I did a nightmare job > welding replacement floor panels into a friend's mid-70's El-> Camino, using a cheapie MIG welder he borrowed. I should have > known better. The duty cycle on it was about .005 percent. I'd get > about 2" of good bead then it would kick off on a thermal check. > That was when the feed wasn't so irregular it was bucking back or > burning back up into the nozzle. I spent more time fighting and > jury-rigging that machine than welding. I can certainly set up a > MIG machine, but that little monster was the devil incarnate. That > job made me gunshy of even considering anything less than > professional-quality equip!> ment.> > That said, the small Lincoln units are enticing. Maybe next April.> > Your point about practice is well-taken and sound advice to all. > It's why a have a box full of junk 4130 short cuts of assorted > sizes here. Granted I haven't welded any 4130 in a while, but I'll > have lots of little 'cluster art' and that box will be long empty > before I consider welding up anything my butt is going to fly > behind, regardless of whether it's with a TIG machine or a gas > torch. > > Jim > > -----Original Message-----> >From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com> >Sent: Oct 29, 2008 11:34 AM> >To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air > workshops>> >The small Lincoln machines were designed specifically for the > homebuilder > >and are great to use, by all means "pick one up" but please go > take a minimum of > > a 6 week adult ed TIG welding class after you familiarize > yourself with it. > >They may not teach you any earth shattering epiphanies that will > make you an > >ace TIG welder overnight but they will force you to do something > you will > >NEVER do at home... PRACTICE, hour after hour of practice but > also with someone > >looking over your shoulder that has the good judgement to say > "try this > >instead of what you are doing now". Its the adjustments in > technique from someone > >who knows that will help turn you into a welder a lot faster > than many hours > >of frustrating trial and error.> >All too often we will buy a tool with a project in mind and of > course go > >right into it producing predictably horrid results. Practice what > you want to do > >on some non critical materials, set up practice welds that > simulate the ones > >you want to do. Don't jump into your project parts hoping they > will turn out > >then accept the mediocre results as good enough.> > > >Regards, Chrissi> > > >CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware> >www.CozyGirrrl.com > >Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo> >Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details> >=====> >If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires > >we fill out a form you will not hear from us.> >Please do not make your spam problem ours. > >> > > >In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:28:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > > >ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:> >> >--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash >> >Do you know if the AWS spec on welding 4130 tubing they talk about has gone> >public yet? I'd like to read it.> >> >One of my concerns is that the tolerances on certain technical aspects of > >homebuilding are (in my opinion) too tight to allow the necessary 'wiggle room'> >for an amateur working under less than ideal conditions in their garage or> >basement (or under a tarp in the yard somewhere). Although composite > >construction comes to mind first (mixing proportions, temperature and humidity> >controls, practical cleanliness), I'm talking the specific point of not normalizing> >after TIG welding.> >> >People who get paid to do something generally try to minimize the work/time> >ratio, being that time is money for them. As an amateur who happens to also> >enjoy the process, I'm more inclined to take the extra time and not shortcut> >that last optional step if there is one. It is my opinion that for most ofthe > >things I do around the house, I'm better off doing them myself than hiringa > >professional. Not because I'm better at it; I'm probably not. But I'm good> >enough to come close, and I'm more personally interested in the final result> >and more willing to expend the extra effort to see it gets done as good asI > >can do it.> >> >If the AWS spec is 'tolerant' enough of the TIG process in a less-than-ideal> >environment to not require normalizing, Ill back off. I do like my gas, but> >it might be enough to put me over the edge and pick up one of those little> >Lincoln machines. > >> >Jim Ash> >> >> >> >-----Original Message-----> >>From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com> >>Sent: Oct 29, 2008 6:38 AM> >>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com> >>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshops> >>> >>Bill,> >> > >>I also attended a TIG welding Sport Air EAA workshop at Griffin. It was > >WELL > >>worth every penny and more. They give you the perfect mix of theory and > >>practice. It is all spoon-fed to you right there. The beauty is that you > >have > >>instant feedback from the expert. This makes all the difference in the > >world and > >>you can learn at lightning speed. I had a different instructor but he too> >was > >>an expert that welds at Indy. He worked for Lincoln as an instructor. I > >>agree with the writer of that piece that you linked. I owned a Lincoln 175> >square > >>wave machine for months before that but was just guessing on a lot of > >stuff. > >>BTW I also attended the Sport Air fabric covering workshop. Very good > >also. > >>> >>Dan Helsper> >>Poplar Grove, IL.> >>> >>**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > >favorites, > >>no registration required and great graphics check it out! > >>http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot> >5 Travel Deals! > >(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?n ... av00000001)> > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2008 14:48:17 -0400

Original Posted By: "Phillips, Jack"

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: Michael Perez

Original Posted By: "Ken Chambers"

Original Posted By: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB"
For what it's worth, according to drawings published in a 1987 edition ofthe Experimenter, The Heath LN Parasol (with the N-braced wings) apparentlyused 1 1/8" x .035" (SAE 1015) tubing for the front and rear lift struts,and 1 1/4" x .035" for the center (diagonal) strut. Remember, though, thatthe Heath is a much smaller plane than the Pietenpol (this fact becomesreally apparent if you happen to walk up to Chris Price's Heath that isbased at Brodhead. That is a tiny airplane)Bill C.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Jim Ash
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshopsGee, welding sure sounds like it is work and may take some skill. That makes thedeal I just did sound great. In exchange for a $10 military surplus maid cart(you know the maids push them around with a trash bag on one side and a dirtylinnen bag on the other with cleaning supplies and sheets in the middle) hangerneigbors Steve and Freda (mentioned by Oscar earlier) are going to practicewelding on a swiveling jack onto my old plymouth pickup bed trailer. The weld does not have to be particularly pretty (or pretty at all) so it willbe great for Steve to learn/practice welding. The price is right for me also.BTW, Oscar is getting too snooty for his own good. He turned down one of thesemaid carts. Said he does not want to clutter up his hangers (yes two hangers!)on he keeps his Peit in and one he is building anouther plane in. Blue skiesSteve D----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Owen Davies

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,The overall load that can be carried by the rod ends (or bolts, or tubing,or bar, or whatever) is dependant on two main factors. One is the tensilestrength of the material, but the other is equally important - thecross-sectional area of the member. The tensile strength is given in poundsper square inch, so the load (in pounds) that it can carry obviously isdependant on the cross-sectional area (in square inches). Aluminum, with thelower tensile strength would need a bigger cross-sectional area than steel,with the higher strength. You could have two fittings that can both carrythe same load - one made of aluminum and one made of steel. The differencewill be that the steel fitting will be smaller in cross-section than thealuminum one.If you have a big enough cross-section, you could probably make the fittingsout of old cheese (not really recommended - it's really trick to weld). Mymain point here is that almost any tensile strength will carry the load,provided the cross-sectional area is sufficient. Whether thatcross-sectional area is practical is another question.Another thing to always keep in mind is the old saw about a chain only beingas strong as its weakest link.Bill C. _____

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright

Original Posted By: "JERRY GROGAN"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshopsDear Jim,Contact TIGdepot.net and he'll fix you right up with a very nice compact water cooled TIG handpiece with a flexible head and 12 or 25 ft hoses and adapter. All the consumables are the same as the handpiece that comes with the welder. The added bonus is that the three flex tubes coming out of it are very flexible compared to the regular single cable, this means much less fatigue and easier maneuverability... it changed my life!For the kind of welding you would be doing (up to 1/8") all you need is a 5 gallon bucket of water and a fountain pump from Harbor Freight. All you willget is a dribble (with 25 ft hoses that's all you will get). I do a lot of production welding with this setup and thin goatskin gloves and never notice the handpiece getting warm.Have fun, ChrissiCG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardwarewww.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turboPlans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details=====If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires we fill out a form you will not hear from us.Please do not make your spam problem ours. In a message dated 10/29/2008 12:49:48 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash I went to welding classe a couple nights a week for three years. Certified stick. Was working on the MIG cert and TIG certs when the administrative types started making noises that they'd rather have a food service curriculum than welding. I backed off focusing on the certs and practiced all kinds of everything they had. Never got to play with the plasma torch or weld plastic (they didn't have a plastic rig), but did everything else available in the shop.Part of my problem with having access to the really nice toys in that classis that it's emotionally harder to accept having to work on a lesser piece of equipment at home. Specifically, the TIG machines I used were all water-cooled. I've had my reservations about air-cooled machines, but if I got to spend a little quality time with one I imagine I'd get over it. I did a nightmarejob welding replacement floor panels into a friend's mid-70's El-Camino, using a cheapie MIG welder he borrowed. I should have known better. The duty cycle on it was about .005 percent. I'd get about 2" of good bead then it would kick off on a thermal check. That was when the feed wasn't so irregular it was bucking back or burning back up into the nozzle. I spent more time fightingand jury-rigging that machine than welding. I can certainly set up a MIG machine, but that little monster was the devil incarnate. That job made me gunshy of even considering anything less than professional-quality equipment.That said, the small Lincoln units are enticing. Maybe next April.Your point about practice is well-taken and sound advice to all. It's why ahave a box full of junk 4130 short cuts of assorted sizes here. Granted I haven't welded any 4130 in a while, but I'll have lots of little 'cluster art' and that box will be long empty before I consider welding up anything my butt is going to fly behind, regardless of whether it's with a TIG machine or a gas torch. Jim -----Original Message----->From: CozyGirrrl(at)aol.com>Sent: Oct 29, 2008 11:34 AM>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshops>>The small Lincoln machines were designed specifically for the homebuilder >and are great to use, by all means "pick one up" but please go take a minimum of > a 6 week adult ed TIG welding class after you familiarize yourself with it. >They may not teach you any earth shattering epiphanies that will make youan >ace TIG welder overnight but they will force you to do something you will>NEVER do at home... PRACTICE, hour after hour of practice but also with someone >looking over your shoulder that has the good judgement to say "try this >instead of what you are doing now". Its the adjustments in technique fromsomeone >who knows that will help turn you into a welder a lot faster than many hours >of frustrating trial and error.>All too often we will buy a tool with a project in mind and of course go >right into it producing predictably horrid results. Practice what you wantto do >on some non critical materials, set up practice welds that simulate the ones >you want to do. Don't jump into your project parts hoping they will turn out >then accept the mediocre results as good enough.> >Regards, Chrissi> >CG Products, Custom Aircraft Hardware>www.CozyGirrrl.com >Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B-turbo>Plans #957 Chapter? big pieces done, details, details>=====>If you have a "Spam Blocker" that requires >we fill out a form you will not hear from us.>Please do not make your spam problem ours. >> >In a message dated 10/29/2008 8:28:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, >ashcan(at)earthlink.net writes:>>--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Jim Ash >>Do you know if the AWS spec on welding 4130 tubing they talk about has gone >public yet? I'd like to read it.>>One of my concerns is that the tolerances on certain technical aspects of>homebuilding are (in my opinion) too tight to allow the necessary 'wiggleroom' >for an amateur working under less than ideal conditions in their garage or >basement (or under a tarp in the yard somewhere). Although composite >construction comes to mind first (mixing proportions, temperature and humidity >controls, practical cleanliness), I'm talking the specific point of not normalizing >after TIG welding.>>People who get paid to do something generally try to minimize the work/time >ratio, being that time is money for them. As an amateur who happens to also >enjoy the process, I'm more inclined to take the extra time and not shortcut >that last optional step if there is one. It is my opinion that for most of the >things I do around the house, I'm better off doing them myself than hiring a >professional. Not because I'm better at it; I'm probably not. But I'm good >enough to come close, and I'm more personally interested in the final result >and more willing to expend the extra effort to see it gets done as good as I >can do it.>>If the AWS spec is 'tolerant' enough of the TIG process in a less-than-ideal >environment to not require normalizing, Ill back off. I do like my gas, but >it might be enough to put me over the edge and pick up one of those little >Lincoln machines. >>Jim Ash>>>-----Original Message----->>From: HelsperSew(at)aol.com>>Sent: Oct 29, 2008 6:38 AM>>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Learning to weld @ Sport Air workshops>>>>Bill,>> >>I also attended a TIG welding Sport Air EAA workshop at Griffin. It was>WELL >>worth every penny and more. They give you the perfect mix of theory and >>practice. It is all spoon-fed to you right there. The beauty is that you>have >>instant feedback from the expert. This makes all the difference in the >world and >>you can learn at lightning speed. I had a different instructor but he too >was >>an expert that welds at Indy. He worked for Lincoln as an instructor. I>>agree with the writer of that piece that you linked. I owned a Lincoln 175 >square >>wave machine for months before that but was just guessing on a lot of >stuff. >>BTW I also attended the Sport Air fabric covering workshop. Very good >also. >>>>Dan Helsper>>Poplar Grove, IL.>>>>**************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your >favorites, >>no registration required and great graphics =93 check it out! >>http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)>>>**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot >5 Travel Deals! >(http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?n ... av00000001)**************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot5 Travel Deals! (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?n ... av00000001)________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Jeff Boatright
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift strutsThanks to all who replied to my question about round strut size fairingsetc. The bad news is that having my water well overhauled did brake thebank, so my buying trip is off for a while. Since it is now cold weatherI'll probably hold off until next spring. I can digest this info for awhile....... Ken--, The post from Doug Bryant was from the past. He soldhis piet several years ago to someone around St. Louis and I doubt if hewatches the list any longer. He and Chuck Ganzer are friends and workedtogether on Chucks Piet, so maybe Chuck can give some details. I sawDougs struts and it's a good idea what he did. He ran the idea pastseveral engineers at Beechcraft and they all gave him the thumbs up.Also they said it was strong enough to not need jury struts, and Dougdid not install them. My only problem with his set up was weight. As thepost reported, the struts were 1 1/4" x .049. Pretty hefty. Then headded the steel fairing to the back side. I don't know the size orthickness of the steel he used. As i recall the sides were around 1 1/2in. so he would have taken a piece of 3'' flat to a shop and had it bentinto a V then every few inches, ran a weld as he welded it to a a strut.Since I'm using the Model A, I have become a stickler for light weight.I was planing to brig a caliper to Brodhead and measure the thickness ofthe original strut material used on the Alan Rudolph Piet, but forgot totake it. Has anyone ever micked those struts and know the thickness? Ibought 3/8 turnbuckle forks at B&B for strut adjustment ends. Less than$2.00 ea. AS&S says they are rated at 20K ea. Should hold an 80k Piet,right? By the way, neither Chuck or Doug put adjustments on the lowerstrut ends and said they never regretted it. Leon S. Airplane and waterwell poor in Ks.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 12:03:31 -0400

Original Posted By: "Catdesigns"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Owners Off The Hook For SNF Tornado Cleanup> FYI.> > Owners whose aircraft were damaged in last year's Sun 'n Fun > tornado will> not be stuck with any of the cleanup costs after all. In a > statement, Sun 'n> Fun President Lites Leenhouts said the organization has paid all > outstandinginvoices and will not be billing individuals for the > costs. Last October Sun> 'n Fun asked the 30 aircraft owners affected to submit their share > of about> $90,000 in towing and cleanup costs to their own insurers after Sun > 'n Fun's> underwriter decided it was not responsible for those costs. > Leenhouts said> about 40 percent of the money was recovered that way and Sun 'n Fun > paid the> rest. "Sun 'n Fun has paid this remaining balance in good faith on > behalf of> those who chose not to submit the bill to their insurance company > or who did> not carry insurance," Leenhouts said. "At no time has Sun 'n Fun > requestedthat the aircraft owner[s] pay their bill[s] directly.> > The request caused controversy and some aircraft owners objected, > saying the> decision to immediately remove aircraft before adjusters for the > companiesrepresenting the owners could make arrangements was a > business decision by> Sun 'n Fun to ensure the show could resume the next day. Leenhouts > said the> immediate cleanup was necessary for safety reasons. He said the > paymentswill cut into funding for aviation education programs that > are the main> benefactor of SNF profits each year. "While we deeply regret the > devastationthat occurred as a result of a storm we could not > control, to pay for the> entire bill would have caused undue hardship for our non-profit> organization," Leenhouts said. "We are grateful to those > individuals who> carried an appropriate amount of insurance as well as those that > paid from> their own resources and to those who rallied together on the day of > thestorm to assist in restoring the site to a clean and safe > environment for> all to enjoy the following day."> > > Jack Textor> DSM> NX1929T> > > ________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lift struts

Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
FYI.Owners whose aircraft were damaged in last year's Sun 'n Fun tornado willnot be stuck with any of the cleanup costs after all. In a statement, Sun 'nFun President Lites Leenhouts said the organization has paid all outstandinginvoices and will not be billing individuals for the costs. Last October Sun'n Fun asked the 30 aircraft owners affected to submit their share of about$90,000 in towing and cleanup costs to their own insurers after Sun 'n Fun'sunderwriter decided it was not responsible for those costs. Leenhouts saidabout 40 percent of the money was recovered that way and Sun 'n Fun paid therest. "Sun 'n Fun has paid this remaining balance in good faith on behalf ofthose who chose not to submit the bill to their insurance company or who didnot carry insurance," Leenhouts said. "At no time has Sun 'n Fun requestedthat the aircraft owner[s] pay their bill[s] directly.The request caused controversy and some aircraft owners objected, saying thedecision to immediately remove aircraft before adjusters for the companiesrepresenting the owners could make arrangements was a business decision bySun 'n Fun to ensure the show could resume the next day. Leenhouts said theimmediate cleanup was necessary for safety reasons. He said the paymentswill cut into funding for aviation education programs that are the mainbenefactor of SNF profits each year. "While we deeply regret the devastationthat occurred as a result of a storm we could not control, to pay for theentire bill would have caused undue hardship for our non-profitorganization," Leenhouts said. "We are grateful to those individuals whocarried an appropriate amount of insurance as well as those that paid fromtheir own resources and to those who rallied together on the day of thestorm to assist in restoring the site to a clean and safe environment forall to enjoy the following day."Jack TextorDSMNX1929T________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lift struts

Original Posted By: "Douwe Blumberg"
That's what I did. Actually superglued the washers to the tab so they would stayin place while putting the struts in place.Don EmchNX899DERead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: Hans van der Voort

Original Posted By: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Rick4130 and 1020 steel form easily when heated and if allowed to cool in calm airslowly will return to its full strength. To get your strut to form correctly youneed to heat the end of the strut to a red color and then quickly flatten theend in your vice. Put a temporary spacer into the end of the tubing so itwill have something to press against and leave the correct amount of space forthe fuselage tab to fit after you flatten it. You might need to heat and fattenseveral times because it cools quickly.If you try to do it without heating you run a high probability of getting cracks.--------ChrisSacramento, CAWestCoastPiet.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "bradandlinda tds.net"
Group,I have the basic set up for my panel in mind but would like to requestfrom the group pictures of your panels. I have combed overWestCoast-Piet and other sites for other ideas also. I thought it mightbe an interesting thread to see what people have done with instrumentplacement, type of ply, or veneer wood or metal finish. I think I amleaning towards a burl veneer panel. Look forward to any panel pics.Thanks.BrianSLC-UT________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:06:10 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inst. Panel design

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Brian,Mine includes some basic electric because of the Corvair charging system.Gary BootheNX308MB-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Don Emch"
For those of you who occasionally wander through Barnstormers, you may have noticeda Pietenpol for sale $8,000 in Naples, FL. Turns out it's really a GN-1.It has a Cont 75 and the tail number is NX554RG. I'm going to take a look atit in the next couple of days and take some pics. If anyone is interested init, contact me off line. No affiliation with either the broker or owner.dgaldrich(at)embarqmail.comDaveRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lift struts

Original Posted By: "Bill R"
She's a beauty, Jeff. A real beauty. The external aileron cables sure make preflightinspection easy, and so does the abbreviated cowling that pretty muchputs the entire engine out there where you can look at everything. I've got toagree with Ray or whoever it was who mentioned safetying the carb it takes moretime to safety everything on a Stromberg than it does to rebuild one ;o)I just put another 1.0 on Scout this afternoon and like you said with yours, my A75 fired up on the third blade and never missed a beat. We had 99 degrees this afternoon and the oil temp got up to about 195 in the climb to 3000', but the engine is dry as a bone (except for a slight drip from one of the rocker cover gaskets and a couple of drops from the breather after I park) and everything is smooth. For my crush plate I just had my machinist buddy turn a disc from 1/4" aluminum stock and drill for the AN6 bolts, then I sandwiched a replica Continental Motors plate between the bolt heads and crush plate (got it from Wag-Aero) and safetied after torqueing. You can see it at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/engine ... -----Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lift struts

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
I am trying to determine what material to use for my lift struts and cabanes.In the running are 4130 streamline tubing from Aircraft Spruce, aluminum streamlinefrom Carlson and 4130 tubing streamlined the old fashion way.It looks like the 4130 streamline tubing from Aircraft Spruce would cost well northof $1500. Their catalog did not list any load bearing capabilities for thevarious sizes of tubing.The Carlson website does list load bearing capabilities,but in terms I am not familiarwith. The cost savings of aluminum over the steel streamline tubing isnot insignificant.The old fashion way of streamline steel tubing is not to appealing to me, but Imight be talked into it.The real questions for me have to do with understanding the loads likely to beimposed on the lift struts of an Aircamper and whether or not the aluminum strutmaterial from Carlson is up to the task. I know there is at least one Aircamperflying with the aluminum struts, Dan Helspers'. Dan and his beautiful planewere featured in the summer issue of Contact magazine. As the article was notof an engineering nature there was no mention of any research Dan may havedone before deciding to use the aluminum struts.Not being one to to risk my neckor anyone else's, I would prefer to have some data before I follow someoneelse's example. Any thoughts would be appreciated, but please keep in mind youwill be replying to a simpleton,not an engineer.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Bill,Another option (and one that has been used many times, including on my ownPietenpol), is to find a set of old Piper Cub struts, removed due to AD.You can cut off the bottom end of the strut where the corrosion is and stillhave plenty of good steel left to make a Pietenpol lift strut, since the Cubstruts are about 10' long, but Pietenpol only needs about 8' per strut. There are a lot of these old struts out there - it just takes a littleperseverence to find them. They are not 4130, but are 1018 mild carbonsteel, and only .035" thick. Still they are plenty strong enough for aPietenpol.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Ray Krause
any of the choices you talked about are just fine..cub struts are cheap and workgreat..Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: "dgaldrich"
________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lift struts

Original Posted By: "Pietflyer1977"
Here are some data points: The Carlson "large" struts have a yield strength justa bit more than 11,000 pounds. Using an 8 inch circumference and.035 wall thickness1018 cold drawn steel for Cub struts gives about 15,000 as a yield strength.Hot rolled 1018 gives 9,000 pounds. Notes: I believe that there are 2 sizes of struts on the Cubs with the front beinglarger. They also taper a bit at the lower fuselage attachment point so that,as installed by Piper, they will have a little less strength than a mid-pointcross-section. I'm guessing on the 8 inch circumference but it's prettyclose.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lift struts

Original Posted By: danhelsper(at)aol.com
>From Pat Panzera, editor of Contact! Magazine:====================================Friends,This Saturday's the big day. We've moved our annual event to Southern California, to a beautiful non-toweredairport that's easy to get to (French Valley - near Temecula). The paved runwayis wide and long for the fast-glass, and the airport is low-and-slow friendly-being the home airport of EAA Chapter 1279, known for building a beautiful,Corvair-powered Pietenpol. The website has been updated with the most current information, and a plea foryou to RSVP if you are planning to attend the casual dinner on Saturday night:http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.htmlThat's probably the most important reason for bothering you with yet another announcement,we really need to get a good headcount for the dinner by today- soif you are planning to attend, please let me know asap! Click the RSVP link onthe webpage or fire off an email directly to me editor(at)contactmagazine.com andlet me know how many in your party.Thanks!And I humbly apologize if you get this message more than once. It just means thatyou and I are on multiple email lists together. Oh yeah! PLEASE forward this message to anyone you think might be interested in,especially email groups that are about homebuilt aircraft. Pat Panzeraeditor(at)contactmagazine.com--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lift struts

Original Posted By: TN=0A=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A Bill R <brcapper@gma
Bill,=0A=0A=0AI used the Carlson "small" lift struts. So far so good. Larry Williams (Top Curmudgeon) also used these. If he was still on this list, you could give him the business for deviating from plans! I personally did no strength calculations on these. =0A=0A=0ADan Helsper=0ALoensloe Airfield=0APuryear,

Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Dan;I realize that your photos are from when you were in the fit-up stage, but thelift strut 2 image illustrates a very good example of some of the places wherea built-to-plans Piet makes it difficult to install hardware the way all of the"best practices" books (Bingelis included, Mikee!) say to do it... bolt headsup or forward.Where the lift strut lower fork attaches to that tab, if you use the proper lengthAN bolt you can't get it into the fitting... the fuselage side fabric is justtoo close and you have to install the bolt with the head down or else trya shorter bolt with a shallow "shear nut" or castellated nut and see if you getenough grip length. This is only one of several places where the same conditioncan occur. There is also a place where the top end of the strut X-bracecable requires a clevis pin to secure it to the fitting, but the end of the strutis too close to the attach point for the cable attach fitting and the pinhas to go in with its head down.On the first annual that my plane had (the A&P was not very familiar with experimentals),he flagged those and a number of other spots where the "head up orforward" rule was not followed. I wanted to have him demonstrate how he wouldinstall that hardware, but refrained since he didn't ground the airplane becauseof those.--------Oscar ZunigaMedford, ORAir Camper NX41CC "Scout"A75 powerRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Simple solution - make the fitting a little bit longer so there is room toget the bolt in from the top.In general, all of the fittings could stand to be a bit longer to allow easyaccess for the hardware. Mike Cuy pointed this out on his video many yearsago. This is a common design mistake. I remember many years ago when I wasworking on my first job out of college. My job was to design a piece thatwas to be removable from an airplane, attached by three bolts. I proudlyshowed my drawings to the chief engineer who looked at it and said "Themechanics are going to hate you. You left them enough room to get one clickof a ratchet on each throw. It'll take them 15 minutes of wiggling aratchet to get that pylon off. Go back and redesign it so they can get atleast a 90 degree throw on their wrench."It is VERY important to make sure the bolts go in with head up or forward.That way, if a cotter pin breaks (or is forgotten) and the nut vibratesloose, the bolt will be held in place by gravity, hopefully long enough thatsomeone will notice it and fix it.Jack PhillipsNX899JPSmith Mountain Lake, Virginia-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "taildrags"
That was the 18th just south of Rantoul. Was a little alarming at first but youcould see directly down through it so I classified it as a thin broken layerwhich is not a ceiling. From a low angle, just really cool looking. Also, as it got more and more dense, you could see the edge where it just suddenlywent away. All told, wasn't more than seven or eight miles. Just an isolated thin scattered to broken layer at three or four hundred feet.Probably the remnants of some heavy ground fog from a little earlier in the morning.We were there around nine thirty I imagine. Eas a brisk fifty degrees!Rantoul was a nice overnight. Quick after hours service, hangar at thirty bucksand a courtesy car. If it looked like it was gonna be bad, had just enough sunlightto head on down to Frasca.Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Short video during cross country flight.