Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces>>OK guys, I need help real fast!! I know there has been discussion about>the tail surfaces on here, but I have not seen a couple of specific>problems I ran into today. I started out to assemble the surfaces and have>some questions I cannot resolve.>>#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil">of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show the>center beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. I>believe, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have the>width of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2">(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear>"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4">(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense to>me. Am I right or wrong?>>#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawing>suggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but it>does not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting the>plywood gussets on.>>#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in the>stabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate with>the end pieces I asked about in #2 above??>>This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I am>all set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. I>hope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "walter evans"
OK guys, I need help real fast!! I know there has been discussion aboutthe tail surfaces on here, but I have not seen a couple of specificproblems I ran into today. I started out to assemble the surfaces and havesome questions I cannot resolve.#1 I have seen lots of talk about the stab supposedly having an "airfoil"of sorts. I have been told that the drawings are wrong when they show thecenter beam lying on its side so that it is 3/4" high and 1" wide. Ibelieve, however, that the drawing is correct because you then have thewidth of the beams (that the 3/16" rib strips rest on) going from 1/2"(leading edge) to 3/4" (center beam) to 3/4" (diagonal brace) to 3/4" (rear"main" beam) in the stab, and then in the elevator 3/4" (main beam) 3/4"(center beam) and back to 1/2" (trailing edge) This makes more sense tome. Am I right or wrong?#2 What is the material on the ends of the stabilizer?? The drawingsuggests that the piece has a "shoulder" on it like the main spar, but itdoes not seem to work out that way when you start to plan putting theplywood gussets on.#3 Does everyone taper the ends of the rear (main) spar in thestabilizer?? What about the center beam?? If so, how does this mate withthe end pieces I asked about in #2 above?? This all looks so easy until you actually start putting glue to wood. I amall set up to do it this weekend, and have a beautiful weekend to do it. Ihope some of you can answer these questions ASAP.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Gene Rambo
Gene,This was the most confusing area of construction for me. What you have todo , because most of the components are different thicknesses, use shimsunder the thinner pieces . The trick is to get all the centerlines linedup, glue the joints, then when dry file/rasp the joint into a taper that agusset will glue onto. Then after you rasp/file/sand and shape, the thinglooks pretty good.walt-----------------------------------------------------Click here for Free Video!!http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
I know that the pieces are different thicknesses, and I know that I have toshim them. I have already done all of that. The question is (1) which waydo the parts lie (2) what material is used on the ends, and (3) whetherthe spars are tapered~!!!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Bob Seibert"

Original Posted By: John E Fay
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces

Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
To John E. Fay: Your description of how you did the horizontal stab was clear and helpful, about the best description of how to do it that I've read! Since you have already done the H-stab twice, then you have more experience at it than most of the other folks on the list! Now, dangit - you've made me want to go back and re-do my vert stab and rudder. The method I used was to go by the plan measurement, and just sort of use a rasp and make it all fit about eyeball right at the corners! Lot's of gaps and spots that don't come together that way.What really gets me is that I thought about doing it your way, and didn't - oh well.... Good job - keep those posts coming!!Gary MeadowsShare information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: JamesJboyer(at)aol.com
All he needs is carpenter's glue, nail gun and LOTS of cherry stain.>From: "Gary Meadows" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 03:04:32 GMT>>>>Gang,>> I know what we should do! We should chip in a couple bucks each and buy >a>complete set of Piet plans, and send them up to Norm Abrams. He could do a>show, maybe call it "New Yankee Airplane"! He could show us all how to do >it>in 30 minutes, and using only $15,000 worth of tools!>> Would be neat to see how he approached this ptoject!>>Just a dumb thought - I'll shut up now, and go back to lurking......>>Gary>>>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at>http://profiles.msn.com.>>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "John McNarry"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfacesIn a message dated 8/25/00 4:41:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rambog(at)erols.com writes:>Hi,For what its worth I built my tail surfaces just the way you described it in #1.I also cut down the center beam to match the thickness of the end pieces on the stabilizer and elevatvors.The end pieces do have a shoulder on them. The gussets fit in and match the top surface of the elevator,etc. It looks good. I also added a pieco of half-round to the leading edge of the stabilizer, just so I didn't have to sand or rasp it round. Also did the same to the trailing edge of the elevators. trailing edge of the rudder, and leading edge of the fin.Cheers,Jim BoyerSanta Rosa, CA________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
John, yours was EXACTLY what I wanted to know, thank you very much. Iassume everyone else has struggled with the best way to mate all of thedifferent thicknesses so that the gussets lay flat and I want to know howeveryone solved it. I do know that the main beam is 5/8, but I thought it would confuse thingsif I said it in my original post. Ya know, though, it would be much easier if the main beam WERE 3/4" wide,then the gussets between it, a 3/4" end piece, and the 3/4" center beamwould all fit flush without any trimming, only the taper to the 1/2"leading edge. Before you say it, I know, then the 3/16" ribs would stick upa little on the main beam, but they already do on the leading edge becausethe shoulder on it is only 1/8" high so what would it hurt, you'd just sandit down like you do the front.Like you , I considered using leading edge material on the ends, and Istill may. I have not cut anything yet that cannot be corrected. I am notsure, though, that I want the stab to be that thin on the ends. Notice inthe rear view of the stab, the drawing shows the ends of the main beamtapered pretty substantially in the last 4" or so. I am not sure of anypurpose for that.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: nle97(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfacesGene, We built our tail exactly according to the plans using the specifiedthicknesses and laying the spar flat. We did not taper the main spar,but I wish we had. The wood on the ends and tips used was Sitka spruceexcept fot the top of the rudder where we used a small block of pine froma 2X4 ( we did have a thick enough piece of spruce left over at thetime).John LangstonPipe Creek, TXnle97(at)juno.com________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: John E Fay
John and Bob, thank you. The second lead does indeed need to be connectedto ground. (The Aircraft Spruce Catalog said it had two points leads sobecause my old coil had only one lead, I thought the short one was a sparefor a different application and taped it off . I just finished connectingit to ground, timed it the way Gene said, popped it in the Piet, timed it tomatch the other mag a 28 BTDC and Bingo, Problem Solved. Good education.Thanks, all.By the way, I also have a C-85, which is a nice engine for the Piet forthose that don't go with the Ford A. It is not certified (I had a mechanicsell it to me piece by piece and help me put it together which was a goodexperience) and doesn't have to be in the US anyway. I used a blueprint fora Piet engine mount for the small Continentals that I believe Bernie or oneof his buddies drew up, so I guess he must have approved of the choice!!!!I'm not sure where it is since its been 14 years or so since I built it, butI might be able to find it if someone needed a copy.________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 15:22:16 -0500Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces

Original Posted By: Richard DeCosta

Original Posted By: Ben Williams

Original Posted By: John Smoyer
the plans, or at least the articles on converting the Model A show the mixture wired full rich. I have never seen anyone install a control, and cannot think of a reason to do so.Gene ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Lawrence Williams

Original Posted By: "Mild Bill"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: NewbieMarkI live just north of you in Collinsville ande belong to Chapter 10 also. I keep my Piet at Sandridge airport and would be glad to show it to you and tryit on. It is a Corvair powered, standard would fuselage. You can contact me at 371-9624 or 694-2069. Jim BallewIn a message dated 2/18/2009 2:09:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, k5yac(at)cox.net writes:--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" Thanks for the response Jack. Yes, I do understand that this is a scratch build. I think (hope) that I possess many of the skills required to take on a project of this sort. I guess I'll find out soon enough. Regardless, I'm sure I'll have questions since I've never done this before.My location? I am in Owasso, Oklahoma... just a few miles northeast of Tulsa. I suppose I could add that info to my signature. I recently joined EAAChapter 10 at Gundy's airport, but I haven't had the opportunity to meet manyof the members. I plan to attend our Saturday morning fly-in breakfast, where I will hopefully get to meet some of the crew. I'm sure they will be willing to help point me in the right direction.I hear ya on the long runway part. I don't plan to put adults up front too often. Maybe the wife once in a while, but this project is mostly for me andmy 5 year old son. If I need to carry much more, I'll go rent a Cherokee. Hopefully that won't be necessary too often. I'll have to put Broadhead on the list. We sure would like to go to Air Venture... if we find a way to make it, perhaps we can plan to stop in. Honestly, if I'm serious about having a plane of my own, I should probably usethe funds I would spend on that trip to purchase needed materials. Thanks again for the info!--------MarkRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... *********A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail surfaces

Original Posted By: H RULE
The curvature gives a mild impression of an airfoil cross section.If you don't mind a slight increase in weight, you could thicken the leading andtrailing edges to make the tailplane a flat plate with rounded edges and youwouldn't notice the difference in aerodynamic performance or behavior. (But actuallyevery ounce counts - little things like pulling all the nails out of gussetsafter the adhesive cures do add up, or perhaps could more properly be saidto subtract down.)It appears that shimming is desirable to make the areas under the fittings thesame depth as the back face of the horizontal stabilizer's trailing edge. Theplans indicate that the bottom of the vertical fin is straight all the way, skatingoff the top of the horizontal stabilizer to leave a gap over the curvatureat the front.Just part of the charm of a Pietenpol Air Camper. [Wink]--------Bill FrankRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ______Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 05:01:43 -0800 (PST)