Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: jefay(at)juno.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fuselage

Original Posted By: tony_weeks(at)juno.com
Dr. Joel:Best wishes on constructing your tube Piet. Pay no attention to thosesour grapes purists. If it makes you happy, gets you into the air, andis safe to fly, enjoy it.Me, I built a wooden plane (Taylor Titch, 1979), and half a plasticplane (VariEze, 1976). This time it's a steel fuselage and empennage -the beautiful Bakeng Duce. I hope to power it with a Czech engine, 4cyl. inline, inverted and supercharged. Just starting on the tail end,and I've been practicing my welding skills.The drawings for the steel tube fuselage for the Piet are pretty good,but kinda generic. And there is no reason why you can't make the stabs,rudder and elevator out of .500 x .035 4130, with maybe a 5/8 x .049 forthe joint areas. Lots of those little 3/4 x 1.5" tabs to hold thefairing strips, floor boards, etc. All in all, they will probably wieghabout the same.Do listen to the guys on the net - there is a world of experience therefor the avid student. And if you need help with the thing, just ask. Someone here will have a good answer.CraigoLake Worth, FLDuce in progress________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 20:55:46 -0800Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fuselage

Original Posted By:
Tony,In building,,, it's not the destination,,,it's the journey thats important.Don't get overwhelmed with great expectations. Just do a little bit at atime. And enjoy yourself. The next thing you know, you'll look around, andyou finished alot of neat stuff.A freind of mine B.C. , who started me building, once told me ( and itdidn't mean much at the time) "don't build to fly, build to build "walt---------------------------------------------------------- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary Meadows"
11:26:20 AM"Now to find the time to get started."Tony,This will never happen. People who build airplanes are intoeverything. You have to make the time. It's hard, there are so manyother projects calling my name at the same time, but I keep gettingback to the airplane on a regular basis. I try to do somethingeveryday.Go for it!MikePietenpol in progress.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: JOEL CARROLL
Mike, Your advice to Tony is right on the money. If you can do a little everyday, then you'll make progress. What I'm guilty of is working like a madman for maybe 2-3 weeks, then going off to other things that I have to do for a few weeks. The problem I find is that I lose time trying to figure out where I was, and my time isn't used as effectively.Tony -The big key is to overcome that inertia of inactivity, and build something simple and quick to get started. I love ribs for that. Set up your jig, and order capstrip, and some 1/16 ply, and go to it! You'll get a feeling of accomplishment because you'll build a recognizable part, and it doesn't take long to do. Then you only have to build 27-29 more depending on what type wing you build.Put on your Nike's and "Just Do it"!Good Luck!Gary Meadows(about to tackle spoke wheels and straight-axle gear.)________________________________________________________________________________Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:14:30 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: tony_weeks(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Steel tube fuselage

Original Posted By: "gcardinal"
Hello everyone;I am trying to gather all the info I can on a steel tube fuselage for the Piet.Doesanyone know of anyone here that has gone this route.I have found one in theUK,a Steve Bryan but so far no luck getting in touch with him.Bernies drawingfor the steel tube leaves a lot of unanswered questions.My thoughts are to weld the fuse the same way the wood one is done as then it wouldbe a matter of adapting everything directly from the plans,though I definetlywill want a door for the front seat.Any thoughts on this,(welding it thesame as the wood fuse that is,the door is a bonus)?As to why I would like a steel fuse instead of wood,it is simply because as a cabinetmaker,I work with wood everyday and just require the challenge of somethingnew,and besides I have found that chasing a weld puddle can be relaxing andfun.Regards,Mike________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "walt evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steel tube fuselagehi i just started a tube fuse, i bought mild steel tubing locally and i have about 50.oo dollars in the tubing im gas welding it.i bought .049 wall and it weighs about 60 lbs.032 moly weighs in at about 28 lbs but will set you back about 350 bucks plus shipping tom________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 17:29:06 -0500

Original Posted By: "Robison"
hi i just started a tube fuse, i bought mild steel tubing locally and i have about50.oo dollars in the tubing im gas welding it.i bought .049 wall and it weighsabout 60 lbs.032 moly weighs in at about 28 lbs but will set you back about350 bucks plus shipping tomHi Tom,Can one use mild steel tubing for aircraft building?andCan one weld mild steel tubing to 4130 steel without corossion problems?Thanks,Scott RobisonCharleston, IL.Piet Builder________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
Ken, I did check on these tires. I'd use them too if I could figure out a way to mountthem to the Cub gear axles and mount my breaks.Any thoughts there?Scott:I too have been searching for a good set of lightweight tundra tires for my piet.Here is what I have come up with.At our local Fleet Farm they carry Carlisle Tires size 18x9.50x8NHS 4 ply tubelessrib TL for $31.99. I like the size and width of these tires and they are notvery heavy. If you get a chance to look at these (Carlisle web site ) tellme your thoughts. They look very much like the real aircraft tires with a wideprofile and moderate groove channels.Be very interested in what others have to say. Also wondering the weight of completeset-ups of motorcycle tires vs tundra tires?...Ken HeideFargo, NDGot holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Douwe Blumberg
just use a long hose of at least 30' or so. by the time the air gets to the gunit's cooled down substanially. need it cooler?? use a longer hose. my gunhas a 30' hose and when you touch thehose near the turbine it's pretty warm.at the gun it's just above ambient temp.DJ- ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Kenneth M. Heide"

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fw: Steel tube fuselagethe pietenpol plans call out for 1025 steel ,mine is .049 wall the plans call for .032, a little extra never hurts tom________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:38:04 -0500

Original Posted By: "Mark Blackwell"
Mike,Delaminated plywood sides?Sounds like Home depot stuff, could the original builder be your"Fisherman"Hans. Michael D Cuy To Sent by: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com owner-pietenpol-l cc ist-server@matron ics.com Subject Pietenpol-List: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com 02/02/2006 02:38 PM Please respond to pietenpol-list@ma tronics.com If the glue joints are good--this is worth it just for the set of wingribs.....PIETENPOL PROJECT $300 FOR SALE Pietenpol Aircamper project.Includes: completed basic fuselage structure (no metal fittings, no seats),completed horiz. stab., elevators, tail and rudder. No fabric covering.Also included is a completed set of wing ribs. All wood is Douglas Fir.Note that fuselage members are x whereas plans call for 1 x 1.Original builder (not me) said he did it because Fir is stronger thanSpruce. You decide I was not comfortable with the reduction. Also, ply onfuselage sides is partially delaminated and should be replaced. Other thanthat, the workmanship appears straight and good. Located Northeast Floridaand must be picked up. Contact Eric Williams - located Jacksonville, FLUSA Telephone: 904-221-4787 Posted January 24, 2006 Show all Adsposted by this Advertiser Recommend This Ad to a Friend Send a Message________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:28:53 -0500

Original Posted By: "Kirk Huizenga"

Original Posted By: "Peter W Johnson"
Hi,This is not based on any practical experience but from reading the Aircraft Weldingbook I got from the EAA site. They talk about pressurizing the tube framewith nitrogen, waiting a few minutes for the nitrogen to dilute the air andthen purging, and repeating that process a few times and finally leaving 50 lbsof nitrogen in the frame. Seems like a good safety check as well as a rustinhibitor.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Scott,I am in Hanoi at the moment and my ADSL when down and won=92t re-sync. I shallbe back home on Tuesday so all will be working then.Sorry for temporary loss of the site.CheersPeterWonthaggi AustraliaHYPERLINK "http://www.cpc-world.com/"http://www.cp ... --Original Message-----

Original Posted By: robison(at)mchsi.com
Hi Hans,This is an old project that I am selling. I had put a message about it on this list a few weeks ago with all the details. I'll go ahead and re-insert it below. Please feel free to ask me any questions. Thanks, Eric.*****(original message)*************Hello you guys,I have been sitting on a Piet project for 3 years that I have realized I will likely never get around to finishing. I love Pietenpols but had to finally admit to myself that, at this time, it just isn't the right project for me. I have a new job that requires a lot of time and with two kids, there just isn't a whole lot of extra time to go around. I do have an old straight-tail C-150 so at least there's something to fly.So anyway, let me describe the project. First of all, I didn't build it. I bought it from a friend who knew the builder and I did get to talk with him (the original builder) once. It includes a completed fuselage with just the wood parts - no metal fittings at all and no gear. It is the original type short fuse with the bottom side that has the greater curvature. The best that I can recall is it's 13'-6" long. There is a full set of completed wing ribs and a complete set of tail surfaces (tail, rudder, horiz. stab., elevators - no fabric).One thing I want to be clear about is that the fuselage and all other parts were made from Douglas Fir. The thing about the fuse is that the builder decreased the longeron dimensions from 1" x 1" to 3/4" x 3/4". He said it was due to the greater strength of Doug Fir. This is true but it always concerned me because I felt it was a little too much of a dimensional reduction. He said that he and a friend built two projects at the same time and the other guy completed his and apparently it is flying fine - I don't really know. I just want to be honest about it all. Also, he used doorskin type ply on the fuse sides and one side got wet during my move from Illinois to Florida and delaminated. I had always planned to strip off the doorskins and replace it with real A/C ply.So that's the story. I figure if I get $300 for the whole thing I'll be happy. I live in Northeast Florida and since it's not a high-dollar project I would really prefer that the buyer picks it up but I could help out for a short distance.I hope you guys don't mind me trying to sell this on this forum but I figured the real Piet enthusiasts are you guys so I'd give you all first crack at it. Probably emailing me privately would be the best way to handle responses so the list isn't tied up.Thanks.Eric W.>From: Hans Vander Voort >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ribs, etc. on Barntormers.com>Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 14:49:25 -0600>>>>>Mike,>>Delaminated plywood sides?>Sounds like Home depot stuff, could the original builder be your>"Fisherman">>Hans.>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
Peter said he'd be back on Tuesday and his website will be up and running thenor soon after.Scott Robison________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!

Original Posted By: "Glenn Thomas"
Finally got around to reading the archives. Wow! Not sure what his goal withthis plane was. Doesn't seem like anyone I've ever talked to on the list. Thegood news is the folks in the forum seemed to have made a full recovery fromthe angry days, (I'm new and never saw anthing like that in my few months here).If I ever start making dillusional sounds like the Fisherman please be asblunt with me. I consider this list more of a resource than a source of entertainment(although it's fun to read). I think he liked to just pose a dumb ideaand anxiously await the responses.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... ___Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel tube fuselage

Original Posted By: robison(at)mchsi.com
Again, I'm referring to the Aircraft Welding book. The alternative to fillingthe tubing with a rust inhibiting gas is to put linseed oil inside the tube androtate it to coat it and then pour out the excess. (Messy) Checking the pressurewill be a heads-up on a cracked weld though.--------Glenn ThomasN?????http://www.flyingwood.comRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.p ... __________

Original Posted By: RAMPEYBOY(at)aol.com
If you read some of the articles by EAA, boiled linsead oil has been used for years to treat the inside of steel tubing. I treated my entire fuselage by drilling a small pinhole in each tube. I then inserted the warm oil into eachtube with a syringe that I purchased from my local feed store. I closed then hole with a gas torch and filler rod. After consulting with a few tech counselors I've concluded that next time I will only do the longerons since they are the only tubes that will likely collect mpisture. Just my opinion forwhat it's worth. If you decide to pressurize the tubing and you get a pinholeor crack in one joint that can't be seen by the naked eye will you then disassemble the aircraft to find the crack? Sounds expensive. For what we do and the planes we build. In my opinion this is over kill. You can purchase boiled linsead oil from your local hardware or farm supply store. It's cheap,quick, and easy. Treat your tubing with it and it will not rust in our life time. Scott RobisonSteel Tube GN-1________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: John Hofmann
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: The Fisherman Surfaces !!!Nice website Glenn. Also good links, and photos of other Piets!Boyce________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 10:32:41 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Steel tube fuselage

Original Posted By: "MICHAEL SILVIUS"
steel tube Piet on e-bay right nowhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper-experimental-fuselage_W0QQitemZ4610038493QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItemmichael silvius________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
looks like the wings are being sold eparatelyhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pietenpol-Air-Camper-experimental-aircraft-wings_W0QQitemZ4610038818QQcategoryZ63679QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem________________________________________________________________________________