Pietenpol-List: the problem with spinning lifesavers
Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2001 2:01 pm
Original Posted By: "Oscar Zuniga"
Walt wrote:>Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day about spinsThe old guy may have a point. I have heard of, and even seen (on TV) airplanes spinning to the ground and the pilot surviving after the crumpled heap piled up, just because of the high-drag way that the plane spun in. Not a spiral dive, but a spin. Recently, William Wynne endured just such an event in his Piet.My CFI is/was a crusty ex-duster pilot from Pine Bluff, Arkansas by the name of Charlie Avaritt... and he had no hesitation in teaching me spins (or in demonstrating them). We did them in a beautiful dark blue Great Lakes biplane, and I considered it to be fun and exciting. When you do them in something that does them well and readily, you end up wanting to "perfect" the technique, not only to extend your personal TBO (time between "Oh my goshes") but to know what one feels like and how to control them. Up till then in my training, I had been taught and reminded several times not to lift a dropping wing with aileron when in slow flight and approach to a stall, but we had never gone to the next step, which was the "why not?" of going ahead and trying to pick the wing up that way. When we did, I began to understand and to use the rudders properly when overusing the ailerons starts to aggravate things and leads to a spin out of a stall. However... I still find myself doing the wrong thing (mostly when flying in spam cans), trying to lift a dropping wing while in slow flight, usually in a turn to short final at low altitude. It's a recipe for disaster.I would like to know how a plane that I build, spins. Get a nice day, plenty of altitude, comfortable CG loading, parachute, and just do it. Don't let it get wound up, but a couple of turns at least. Find out what the descent rate is when spinning, how much altitude is needed for recovery, what the controls do while in the spin, what it sounds like and feels like. I know what it looks like: just drop some green peas and refried beans in a blender with a little water in it, add some toothpicks, and put the switch on 'low' while you look down into it. If you start seeing something that looks like blue Jello mixed with cotton, you better hope you're spinning your airplane over the ocean and not seeing sky instead ;o)I don't think most pilots would even realize they're in a spin until they've cranked a turn or two, so why practice spin recovery out of 1/2 or 3/4-turn spins when you'll likely never be sharp enough to recover that quickly? Maybe the 16-year-old with a Mohawk haircut and lightning-fast reflexes can do it, but not me. I must say I never thought about a spin as a useful maneuver, but if you're comfortable with them, why not use them when needed? Not sure I'd be too comfy spinning down through a solid cloud deck to get to VFR below, but it would depend on the available options. Also not sure if I would try one just to get to pattern altitude from cruise in a hurry, but it would be an attention-getting way to do it, for sure. With a 'chute on, of course... isn't that required by the FARs?Oscar ZunigaMedford, Oregon________________________________________________________________________________
Walt wrote:>Was talking to my 80ish flying Mentor the other day about spinsThe old guy may have a point. I have heard of, and even seen (on TV) airplanes spinning to the ground and the pilot surviving after the crumpled heap piled up, just because of the high-drag way that the plane spun in. Not a spiral dive, but a spin. Recently, William Wynne endured just such an event in his Piet.My CFI is/was a crusty ex-duster pilot from Pine Bluff, Arkansas by the name of Charlie Avaritt... and he had no hesitation in teaching me spins (or in demonstrating them). We did them in a beautiful dark blue Great Lakes biplane, and I considered it to be fun and exciting. When you do them in something that does them well and readily, you end up wanting to "perfect" the technique, not only to extend your personal TBO (time between "Oh my goshes") but to know what one feels like and how to control them. Up till then in my training, I had been taught and reminded several times not to lift a dropping wing with aileron when in slow flight and approach to a stall, but we had never gone to the next step, which was the "why not?" of going ahead and trying to pick the wing up that way. When we did, I began to understand and to use the rudders properly when overusing the ailerons starts to aggravate things and leads to a spin out of a stall. However... I still find myself doing the wrong thing (mostly when flying in spam cans), trying to lift a dropping wing while in slow flight, usually in a turn to short final at low altitude. It's a recipe for disaster.I would like to know how a plane that I build, spins. Get a nice day, plenty of altitude, comfortable CG loading, parachute, and just do it. Don't let it get wound up, but a couple of turns at least. Find out what the descent rate is when spinning, how much altitude is needed for recovery, what the controls do while in the spin, what it sounds like and feels like. I know what it looks like: just drop some green peas and refried beans in a blender with a little water in it, add some toothpicks, and put the switch on 'low' while you look down into it. If you start seeing something that looks like blue Jello mixed with cotton, you better hope you're spinning your airplane over the ocean and not seeing sky instead ;o)I don't think most pilots would even realize they're in a spin until they've cranked a turn or two, so why practice spin recovery out of 1/2 or 3/4-turn spins when you'll likely never be sharp enough to recover that quickly? Maybe the 16-year-old with a Mohawk haircut and lightning-fast reflexes can do it, but not me. I must say I never thought about a spin as a useful maneuver, but if you're comfortable with them, why not use them when needed? Not sure I'd be too comfy spinning down through a solid cloud deck to get to VFR below, but it would depend on the available options. Also not sure if I would try one just to get to pattern altitude from cruise in a hurry, but it would be an attention-getting way to do it, for sure. With a 'chute on, of course... isn't that required by the FARs?Oscar ZunigaMedford, Oregon________________________________________________________________________________