Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Is not the old plain white elmer's glue-all formerly made by Borden withthe Elsie the Cow logo casein glue? I know Borden sold it to Elmer'sProducts Inc. but I do believe it is the old casein glue. Can any oldtimers confirm or deny this?Chris Bobka________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Chris,I don't know what Elmer's Glue is made from, but the casein glue we used in the late forties and early fifties came in pow-der form which was mixed very carefully with water. It was the"approved" glue for sticking together the many wooden partsin the DH 82 Tiger Moth we had at the technical school I at-tended---and all the other wooden airplanes at that time.My recollection is that it wasn't white, but was a (sort-of) light brown color. If I still have my old notes on aircraft materials, I may be able to get some more information. It was a derivative of milk and could supply nourishment to "bugs" as a result. It was not waterproof and this was a major disadvantage. I be-lieve I used it only once to make a repair after leaving technicalschool in 1951. Weldwood Resorcinal became THE glue to use thereafter. As someone pointed out, just about any goodmodern glue will likely be better than the old casein stuff. If El-mer's is indeed casein glue, I wouldn't use it on airplanes to-day.No doubt, someone will be able to better answer your question about Elmer's, and I will be interested in reading what they say.Graham Hansen (Pietenpol CF-AUN)________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
And Totally UNACCEPTABLE for aircraft structure. Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, OshkoshEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Christian Bobka
No, Elmers is not casein glue. Totally different stuff.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Kip & Beth Gardner"
Cy and Kip,Not that I would use Casein glue today, I just always thought that Elmer'sGlue had its basis in the old Casein formula. I guess that is untrue fromthe responses.Chris bobka----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Gary,This aircraft is Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy and I talked to him about thelanding gear at Brodhead a few years ago.There are three fuselages that Bernard published a drawing for. One is theone shown in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual for the Air Camper (not the"new and improved"). It has a wooden Jenny-style gear.The second is for the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper with the cub stylesteel tube landing gear (really the cub style gear copies the piet since thepiet was first).The third is the fuselage Bernard Pietenpol developed for the corvairpowered piet. No landing gear is shown for this fuselage. It is perfectlyacceptable to mount any acceptable engine on this fueslage. You are notlimited to the corvair. I will refer to this fuselage as the "longfuselage". It is desireable to use the long fueslage because it is about 7inches longer than the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper and the 1932 AirCamper. You fit better in the longer cockpit. Frank Pavliga used the longfuselage for sky gypsy and it originally had a Model A Ford but now has aContinental A-65.The problem is that the long fuselage shifts the loaded center of gravityaft quite a bit. Aerodynamically, this is compensated for by shifting thewing aft. There is no problem here. The problem is that if you takethe1932 wood gear and put it on the long fuselage, the wheels are too farforward. Frank Pavliga did not realize this or otherwise ignored this factfor the first set of gear made for the sky gypsy. The wheels were so farforward that he had much difficulty in getting the tail to raise on takeoff.The airplane ON THE GROUND was far too tail heavy. He built a second set ofwooden gear legs that shifted the axle back (maybe 5 or 6 inches) and thisdistributed the weight more appropriately forward and aft of the axle sothat the plane handled better on the ground. This can be clearly seen whencomparing the photo you posted with the 1932 gear drawings.As an aside, there is a big old lead weight that is tied to one of skygypsy's motor mount tubes indicating that it was easier to intstall thewieght than to mess with tweaking the rigging of the wings if it is therefor aerodynamic purposes or making a new set of gear legs if it is there forwieght distribution for ground handling.Maybe some of the local Ohio boys on the list like Mike Cuy can clue you inbetter than me since they are more familiar with sky gypsy since it lives inOhio.Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson have moved the axle on their wooden gear afton their yet to fly long fuselage A-65 powered ship. Dale has the number athis fingertips and hopefully will post a note here with the figure.Chris Bobka----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
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