Re: Pietenpol-List: aft CG problems T-88
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2002 1:47 pm
Original Posted By: "Fisherman Caye"
Hello, I have been lurking on this list for the last 4 months. I have built andam currently flying a Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin. The Rag-A-Muffin is a singleseat wood and fabric parasol wing plane that is similar in size to the HeathParasol. I have been flying my plane for the last 2 years and now. I want tobuild another plane and the Aircamper is one of the planes I am thinkingabout building. I am also on the Ragwing list and I find that there is alsoon line discussions about glue and materials on the Ragwing list. I built myplane using mostly T-88, a friend of mine built a 2 seat Keritoo using T-88and the plane is now 14 years old and has over 1400 hours on it with nocomplaints as far as glue joints. I initially used the foaming polyurethaneglue but after comparing it with T-88 I threw away most of the parts madewith the polyurethane glue. The foaming action of the poly glue can forceparts out of contact making a weak joint, the foam has very little strength.I bought all of my lumber at the local lumber yard and used Douglas Fir. Itwasn't hard to grade the wood and I also made a bend tester to test thestrength of the wood before using it. I also painted the plane using thelatex paint process known as the Fisher process which uses black latex housepaint for the UV barrier. For plywood,aluminum,cables,bolts etc I used allaircraft grade stuff. What I am getting at is that I did not use allexpensive aircraft stuff in my plane. I would be real careful about usinghardware store items without first verifying for sure that it will work.Sure the Pietenpol is overbuilt and is simple to build. But back then alltypes of planes crashed more often than we are used to seeing today. We havefound over the 100 years that we have been flying that there is a minimumquality that we must not cross oe we will die. I have seen a few peoplestart building with abandon and later realize that maybe they should haveused a little better grade of stuff and give up on the project or worse sellit to someone else. When you place your plane on a sawhorse with someone in the seat andslide the engine on the mounts you will have a plane that weighs over a halfton. I hope you have a good sawhorse, and I hope the floor and longerons cantake the weight. As far as the math to do the W&B goes, I am no whiz eitherbut if you can multiply ,divide and use a tape measure and a level, you willhave no problem. Here is a NTSB report on what can happen in the extremecase of cutting too many corners.Wayne McIntosh, Lafayette INNTSB Identification: CHI84FU007 . The docket is stored on NTSB microfichenumber 26765.Accident occurred Saturday, July 28, 1984 at LUDINGTON, MIAircraft:COLLINS FISHER FP-202, registration: NONEInjuries: 1 Fatal.THE ULTRA-LIGHT WAS CONSTRUCTED BY THE PILOT AND TWO OTHER PERSONS. THISGROUP HAD NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE IN AIRCRAFT CONSTRUCTION. THIS WAS THETHIRD KNOWN FLIGHT FOR THIS AIRCRAFT. IT HAD BEEN FLOWN TWO DAYS PRIOR TOTHE ACCIDENT AND AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE AILERONS HAD BEEN MADE. THE PILOT WASIN A TURN FROM BASE TO FINAL WHEN HE STARTED TO LOOSE ALTITUDE. WHEN HEADDED POWER THE NOSE STARTED UP THEN THE RIGHT WING SEPARATED. EXAMINATIONOF THE WRECKAGE REVEALED THAT SCRAP HOUSE PANELING WAS USED IN THECONSTRUCTION OF THIS VEHICLE. ALSO SEVERAL GLUE JOINTS PULLED APART WITHOUTSPLINTERING THE CONTACTING SURFACES.The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) ofthis accident as follows.MAINTENANCE,MAJOR ALTERATION..INADEQUATE..MANUFACTURERMATERIAL INADEQUATE..OTHER PERSON----- Original Message -----
Hello, I have been lurking on this list for the last 4 months. I have built andam currently flying a Ragwing Rag-A-Muffin. The Rag-A-Muffin is a singleseat wood and fabric parasol wing plane that is similar in size to the HeathParasol. I have been flying my plane for the last 2 years and now. I want tobuild another plane and the Aircamper is one of the planes I am thinkingabout building. I am also on the Ragwing list and I find that there is alsoon line discussions about glue and materials on the Ragwing list. I built myplane using mostly T-88, a friend of mine built a 2 seat Keritoo using T-88and the plane is now 14 years old and has over 1400 hours on it with nocomplaints as far as glue joints. I initially used the foaming polyurethaneglue but after comparing it with T-88 I threw away most of the parts madewith the polyurethane glue. The foaming action of the poly glue can forceparts out of contact making a weak joint, the foam has very little strength.I bought all of my lumber at the local lumber yard and used Douglas Fir. Itwasn't hard to grade the wood and I also made a bend tester to test thestrength of the wood before using it. I also painted the plane using thelatex paint process known as the Fisher process which uses black latex housepaint for the UV barrier. For plywood,aluminum,cables,bolts etc I used allaircraft grade stuff. What I am getting at is that I did not use allexpensive aircraft stuff in my plane. I would be real careful about usinghardware store items without first verifying for sure that it will work.Sure the Pietenpol is overbuilt and is simple to build. But back then alltypes of planes crashed more often than we are used to seeing today. We havefound over the 100 years that we have been flying that there is a minimumquality that we must not cross oe we will die. I have seen a few peoplestart building with abandon and later realize that maybe they should haveused a little better grade of stuff and give up on the project or worse sellit to someone else. When you place your plane on a sawhorse with someone in the seat andslide the engine on the mounts you will have a plane that weighs over a halfton. I hope you have a good sawhorse, and I hope the floor and longerons cantake the weight. As far as the math to do the W&B goes, I am no whiz eitherbut if you can multiply ,divide and use a tape measure and a level, you willhave no problem. Here is a NTSB report on what can happen in the extremecase of cutting too many corners.Wayne McIntosh, Lafayette INNTSB Identification: CHI84FU007 . The docket is stored on NTSB microfichenumber 26765.Accident occurred Saturday, July 28, 1984 at LUDINGTON, MIAircraft:COLLINS FISHER FP-202, registration: NONEInjuries: 1 Fatal.THE ULTRA-LIGHT WAS CONSTRUCTED BY THE PILOT AND TWO OTHER PERSONS. THISGROUP HAD NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE IN AIRCRAFT CONSTRUCTION. THIS WAS THETHIRD KNOWN FLIGHT FOR THIS AIRCRAFT. IT HAD BEEN FLOWN TWO DAYS PRIOR TOTHE ACCIDENT AND AN ADJUSTMENT TO THE AILERONS HAD BEEN MADE. THE PILOT WASIN A TURN FROM BASE TO FINAL WHEN HE STARTED TO LOOSE ALTITUDE. WHEN HEADDED POWER THE NOSE STARTED UP THEN THE RIGHT WING SEPARATED. EXAMINATIONOF THE WRECKAGE REVEALED THAT SCRAP HOUSE PANELING WAS USED IN THECONSTRUCTION OF THIS VEHICLE. ALSO SEVERAL GLUE JOINTS PULLED APART WITHOUTSPLINTERING THE CONTACTING SURFACES.The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) ofthis accident as follows.MAINTENANCE,MAJOR ALTERATION..INADEQUATE..MANUFACTURERMATERIAL INADEQUATE..OTHER PERSON----- Original Message -----