Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Kip & Beth Gardner
My ribs are coming along, I'm getting better the more I build, but what is usedto clean T-88 off my tools? I've got one sticky stapler, knife and pliers. I'm thinking of doing away with the stapler, as it's not working the way Ithought. The gusset slides around too much while I try to hit the staple in.Then I press the gusset for a bit to get it to grab, and my stapler decides toNOT put a staple in. I almost ordered some nails today after I tried pullinga mangled staple from a gusset, and had the staple bloody my thumb. It's timefor a beer. And another revelation. As I assemble my ribs, (from wood I cut at home, justto save money), I see that many capstrips aren't holding a true 1/4" dimension.And since I pre-cut all my capstrip supports, as I place them in the jigthere are some that don't meet the joint on the upper or lower capstrip. SoI re-cut a few supports in each rib. And my blocks are 1/2" tall and placedtoo close to the joints. So they get glued by the runoff of epoxy. I have movedmy blocks since the first rib, but I think 3/8" tall and less epoxy would bebetter, if I had to build a jig again.Considering what I have accomplished since getting my plans at the end of November2001, it would have been much better to not buy a $250 table saw, not buyred cedar (About $40 bucks worth) and put the money toward Sitka Spruce precutcapstrip material. If I did that I would be done with ribs by now, and ontosomething else. Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.Kent HallstenOklahoma City________________________________________________________________________________Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:09:36 -0500

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kent,You might want to try resorcinol for your ribs. I use both, resorcinol andT-88, and both are very good glues, but both have advantages anddisadvantages. One thing I really like about resorcinol is that itgenerally stays where you put it, unlike T-88 which seems viscous at first,but can flow for hours after you've clamped everything tight and gone to geta beer. I generally use resorcinol anywhere on the structure that I can geta good tight fitting joint and can get good clamping pressure, where thefinished glue joint won't show (I don't think the brown stain left over fromresorcinol is very pretty), so I have used T-88 in the cockpit area. Lastnight I found a big lump of cured T-88 on my varnished floorboard where itdripped down after I glued the front instrument panel in place. Now I'llhave to chisel that up, sand down the chisel marks and then re-varnish thefloorboard in that area.I found (particularly using resorcinol) that it was best to cut the uprightsfor the ribs as you were building each rib to get a perfect fitting joint.A belt sander is extremely useful to put the odd bevels on the uprights anddiagonals - much faster and more accurate than a saw. I had pre-cut all ofmine, but left them about 1/8" long and then sanded them on the belt sanderto fit precisely as they were trial fitted before gluing. I tried stapling,but found nails to work better for me (less chance of splitting the plywoodgussets or the capstrip). It took me about 3 hours to build each rib, so ina month I had all the ribs done.I've done test joints with both T-88 and Resorcinol and can't tell anydifference in performance. Both hold very well, and the wood always fails,not the glue. I have not tried joint tests at elevated temperatures, wherethe T-88 is weakest. Resorcinol does have a couple of things to watch outfor - it requires a high clamping pressure, usually requiring AN301 nailsevery 3/4" or so. And your shop temperature (and all the materials you aregluing, including the glue) need to be at least 70F, so you might have torun heaters in your shop, particularly in the winter. If you can meet allthat, and make good tight fitting joints, it is the strongest, longestlasting glue available.Jack -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Skip Gadd"
I thought about using an electric stapler, and I have one to boot, but in the archivesit is mentioned that those type of staples are flat with chisel points,and will split the thin capstrip. The round staples in an office stapler arebetter. Maybe my stapler is a cheap junker, as it misfires about 75 % of thetime. I will try one test piece. I went to Sun 'n Fun in 2001, maybe 2000?and saw the man build ribs with an office stapler. I didn't get his name butit seems to be Charlie Rubeck as others here have mentioned. He put a rib togetherin about 20 minutes. Gussets and all.I have enough steel clamps to hold a rib together, but clothespins sound like theway to go. They won't put as much "squeeze" on the gusset as these steel clamps.Do clothespins open up enough, 5/8"? I don't have any here to check.Gary, what do you mean by a 'BF rib' ?I strive for a perfect joint fit, but I don't want to be neurotic about it. Cana 1/16" gap be safe, so far that is my limit. I know T-88 has the gap fillingproperties, and the gusset takes most of the strength. Back out to the garage for another go at it.Kent Hallsten________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> hallstenokc
Kent,The rib building method that worked for me:I use a small size shop stapler, Arrow JT-21 and 1/4" staples for the ribs,used the same stapler and just longer staples for the 1/8" gussets on thefuselage.When I dry fit the rib draw a pencil line around the gusset. Butter theT-88 on the rib and gusset and set the gusset in place, push it down in theglue a little to set in place and with that same hand hold in place and staple with the other hand.When all gussets are in place on the first side take the rib out and gluegussets on the second side, if the joint opens up a little on the secondside just hold closed while stapling the gusset on.Than set that rub aside and remove staples from the rib I did yesterday.The whole thing takes about 45 minutes, assuming the parts were pre-made.I saved all the staples from 30 ribs in a plastic bag and they weigh 1/2 lb.Skip Gadd> [Original Message]

Original Posted By: Skip Gadd
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Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."

Original Posted By:> Michael Brusilow
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Original Posted By:> > Michael Brusilow
That was really strange, maybe this will work. > > [Original Message]

Original Posted By: catdesigns(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Rib building and Epoxy cleanup

Original Posted By: "Jeffrey Wilcox"
> Sometimes I think I'm pretty smart, only to have reality wake me up.>> Kent Hallsten> Oklahoma CityWelcome to the wonderful world of airplane building!!! Remember that thisis supposed to be for recreation and education. Wish I had a dime for everypart I've ever had to re-do.CraigCutting his steel elevator apart to make it 4" longer!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Sounds familiar. I made seven cabane strut fittings for the centersectionto get four good ones. Same for the landing gear fittings. I swear I couldbuild a second Pietenpol for two thirds the cost and in half the time. Youdefinitely get an education doing this. Again, pity the kitbuilders. Theyjust get to assemble things, not actually make them.Jack -----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Gary Gower

Original Posted By: Gary Gower