Original Posted By: Mike Hardaway
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersPieter Aero Engineers,Situation: Test Pilot has reported he has to hold a little back pressure on the stick to maintain level flight. It may be his weight, 135#,.Question: Would a little alum tab attached to the trailing edge of right elevator bent downward correct this little problem? Corky in La skyhigh________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:06:11 -0700
Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: "Mike Hardaway"
wouldn't the better solution to a constant trim problem be to tweak the tailwires to increase/decrease the incidence of the horizontal at the ends?no ugly trim tab required.DJ----- Original Message -----
wouldn't the better solution to a constant trim problem be to tweak the tailwires to increase/decrease the incidence of the horizontal at the ends?no ugly trim tab required.DJ----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersDJ that's the kind of engineering I wanted to hear about. Please take a minute and return the wisdom I'll need to twick those wires and give me a little theory too.ThanksCorky in La ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:07:37 -0400
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersDJ that's the kind of engineering I wanted to hear about. Please take a minute and return the wisdom I'll need to twick those wires and give me a little theory too.ThanksCorky in La ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:07:37 -0400
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By:
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By:
Corky, That exact thing cured the same problem on my Rag-A-Muffin ultralight(made of wood and vaguely looks like a piet). Only it was not a small tabmine is 12" x 4". I put it on the underside of the elevator.Wayne McIntosh----- Original Message -----
Corky, That exact thing cured the same problem on my Rag-A-Muffin ultralight(made of wood and vaguely looks like a piet). Only it was not a small tabmine is 12" x 4". I put it on the underside of the elevator.Wayne McIntosh----- Original Message -----
Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: Kip & Beth Gardner
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersIn a message dated 10/8/02 8:24:22 AM Central Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:>Corky,Congrats on your flying Pietenpol !! I'm sure the elation you feel watching 'er in the air, will pale by comparison, when you fly 'er yourself !! Just don't get too anxious...training is the key.Flight Testing:Here is what I did to correct the out of trim condition I had. As per Doug Bryant's direction, I tweaked the leading edge of the horizontal stab, down, to pitch the nose up, thus reducing the back pressure on the stick, required to maintain level flight. I did this 3 or 4 times, test flying each time. I loosened the top fwd turnbuckles about one turn (both sides equally) and tightening the bottom fwd turnbuckles, and re-safteying them. Each time it made a difference in pitch trim, but it still didn't seem to be enough, and if you eyeball the leading edge, you can see it it tweaked down. I then elected to try a trim tab. I used a piece of balsa wood (recovered from an aileron from my vast collection of model airplane stuff), sanded a radius on the thick portion to match the radius of the trailing edge of the elevators, and taped them on the trailing edge of BOTH elevators, angled down about 20. I used duct tape (90 mph tape) for the test phase, and tweaked it down a tiny bit at a time, till I got it right. I then glued the tab on, and used fabric to cover the tab. At high cruise speed, on pitch trim, she flys almost hands off. Slower speeds she still requires a little back pressure. I also had a left wing heavy condition. After 4 or 5 tests confirming that it was not a torque thing going on (neutral thrust flight), and leveling the plane and re-checking symmetry, I found I had to tweak the wing. To bring the right wing back (lowering the leading edge), left wing forward (raising the leading edge), with the cables between the lift struts, after loosening all the hardware. All told, the Right wing tip was moved back about 1/4", Left wing forward 1/4" (one quarter inch). Doesn't sound like much but it made 90 % of the left wing heavy condition go away. I'll probably tweak it again, just a tiny bit more. I've still got some gremlins in the carburetor...damn them critters !! Every flight for me is a test flight, and a training flight. I'm now ready to start streaching 'er legs. My longest flight thus far has been 1.3 hrs. Now ready for 1.5 hr flight, and an 'Iron Butt' award. Next summer, 'We' are going to fly to Broadhead, as well as that other fly - in, to the North, then on to Wheeling, West Virginia (home town). Gonna be quite an adventure !!Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersIn a message dated 10/8/02 8:24:22 AM Central Daylight Time, Isablcorky(at)aol.com writes:>Corky,Congrats on your flying Pietenpol !! I'm sure the elation you feel watching 'er in the air, will pale by comparison, when you fly 'er yourself !! Just don't get too anxious...training is the key.Flight Testing:Here is what I did to correct the out of trim condition I had. As per Doug Bryant's direction, I tweaked the leading edge of the horizontal stab, down, to pitch the nose up, thus reducing the back pressure on the stick, required to maintain level flight. I did this 3 or 4 times, test flying each time. I loosened the top fwd turnbuckles about one turn (both sides equally) and tightening the bottom fwd turnbuckles, and re-safteying them. Each time it made a difference in pitch trim, but it still didn't seem to be enough, and if you eyeball the leading edge, you can see it it tweaked down. I then elected to try a trim tab. I used a piece of balsa wood (recovered from an aileron from my vast collection of model airplane stuff), sanded a radius on the thick portion to match the radius of the trailing edge of the elevators, and taped them on the trailing edge of BOTH elevators, angled down about 20. I used duct tape (90 mph tape) for the test phase, and tweaked it down a tiny bit at a time, till I got it right. I then glued the tab on, and used fabric to cover the tab. At high cruise speed, on pitch trim, she flys almost hands off. Slower speeds she still requires a little back pressure. I also had a left wing heavy condition. After 4 or 5 tests confirming that it was not a torque thing going on (neutral thrust flight), and leveling the plane and re-checking symmetry, I found I had to tweak the wing. To bring the right wing back (lowering the leading edge), left wing forward (raising the leading edge), with the cables between the lift struts, after loosening all the hardware. All told, the Right wing tip was moved back about 1/4", Left wing forward 1/4" (one quarter inch). Doesn't sound like much but it made 90 % of the left wing heavy condition go away. I'll probably tweak it again, just a tiny bit more. I've still got some gremlins in the carburetor...damn them critters !! Every flight for me is a test flight, and a training flight. I'm now ready to start streaching 'er legs. My longest flight thus far has been 1.3 hrs. Now ready for 1.5 hr flight, and an 'Iron Butt' award. Next summer, 'We' are going to fly to Broadhead, as well as that other fly - in, to the North, then on to Wheeling, West Virginia (home town). Gonna be quite an adventure !!Chuck GantzerNX770CG________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Benton Fly - In Info
Original Posted By: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Benton Fly - In InfoIn a message dated 10/8/02 7:32:08 AM Central Daylight Time, KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:>I've got 2 small grills for burgers & dogs. We'll just "Wing It". I hope we can get a couple of 'Young Eagle Flights' in, with some of the local pilots. Bring good weather with ya !!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Benton Fly - In InfoIn a message dated 10/8/02 7:32:08 AM Central Daylight Time, KHallsten(at)governair.com writes:>I've got 2 small grills for burgers & dogs. We'll just "Wing It". I hope we can get a couple of 'Young Eagle Flights' in, with some of the local pilots. Bring good weather with ya !!Chuck G.________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By:
Fellow Pietenpol builders,I have my fuselage glued up and am ready to fabricate the controls. Iseveryone using 4130 steel for that job?Alex Sloan----- Original Message -----
Fellow Pietenpol builders,I have my fuselage glued up and am ready to fabricate the controls. Iseveryone using 4130 steel for that job?Alex Sloan----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: Waytogopiet(at)aol.com
Fellow Pietenpol builders,I have my fuselage glued up and am ready to fabricate the controls. Iseveryone using 4130 steel for that job?Alex Sloan________________________________________________________________________________
Fellow Pietenpol builders,I have my fuselage glued up and am ready to fabricate the controls. Iseveryone using 4130 steel for that job?Alex Sloan________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: "Alex Sloan"
yup... mines 4130 tube. I've seen a few done in aluminum. either way isgood providing the joints are good and strong.DJwww.raptoronline.com----- Original Message -----
yup... mines 4130 tube. I've seen a few done in aluminum. either way isgood providing the joints are good and strong.DJwww.raptoronline.com----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersAlex...You can use 4130 or 1020. 4130 is easy to order in the differentsizes neededthrough ACS , Wicks, Dillsburg etc. BUT don't braze 4130 as shown in theplans 4130 must be welded. Ed Grentzer________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:46:57 -0500
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersAlex...You can use 4130 or 1020. 4130 is easy to order in the differentsizes neededthrough ACS , Wicks, Dillsburg etc. BUT don't braze 4130 as shown in theplans 4130 must be welded. Ed Grentzer________________________________________________________________________________Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:46:57 -0500
Re:Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: catdesigns(at)juno.com
Subject: Re:Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Subject: Re:Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero Engineers
Original Posted By: bobka(at)charter.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersMay have been something like my Buhl Bull Pup which had two small vanes that protruded from either side of the fuselage directly under the horizontal stab. They were connected with an axle on which a sprocket was mounted. A small cable ran from the cockpit to a short length of bicycle chain that actuated the sprocket and vanes. It did not have a great affect but enough to help the fore and aft stick forces. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Aero EngineersMay have been something like my Buhl Bull Pup which had two small vanes that protruded from either side of the fuselage directly under the horizontal stab. They were connected with an axle on which a sprocket was mounted. A small cable ran from the cockpit to a short length of bicycle chain that actuated the sprocket and vanes. It did not have a great affect but enough to help the fore and aft stick forces. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________