Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
Hey AllI seem to remember some past discussion about moving the position of axel on thelong fuselage. I dont see it indicated on the supplemental plans. Are thereany thoughts from long fuse builders?A very snowy day in MinnesotaDick N.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:Match: #165 Message: #16157 "Christian Bobka"
Dick,I had to drive from Apple Valley down to Faribault and it took 90 minutesfor a 35 minute trip.From the archives:

Original Posted By: "Jon Botsford"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuse gearIn a message dated 2/2/2003 8:04:58 PM Central Standard Time, kipandbeth(at)earthlink.net writes:> I can ask him for details or make measurements for anyone that wants themKip,I would very much appreciate any info in this regard that Frank can pass along. I have the long fuselage with the Model A and the solid wood gear, the same as his. I had built and installed the gear before the thread began on this subject. Of course that gear was intended for the original FGM version. I positioned mine in the location of the second version ("new, improved") which is probably equally wrong but I wanted to resist making any changes before doing my w&b and seeing what my tailwheel weight was. There may be meaningful differences dpending on whether Frank used fir or spruce on his fuselage. I did make a concerted effort to keep mine light in the tailfeathers and used spruce throughout. I'm fully covered, painted and complete and hopefully will be doing my final w&b this weekend. Thanks agin for the offer. Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
We were no shows at the Alan Jackson / Joe Nichols concert in Mankatotonight.Dick N.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuse gear

Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
DaleAre you to the point of final or close w/b yet? If so, how far back didyou have to rake your wing to get acceptable balance?On my short Fuse Piet the wing is back almost 4". I am hoping to avoidthat, this time It makes getting into the rear cockpit somewhatchallanging. I installed the center section cutout but the trailing edgeends dont allow much room.Dick N.----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: del magsam

Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some sources on gear positionChrisdoes aircraft rigging position refer to the plane positioned- tail up - as if it were flying in straight and level?Henry Williams trying to decide on dihedral: yes or no________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 18:51:21 -0600Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: long fuse gear

Original Posted By: "D.Dale Johnson"
Dale,In a nutshell it sounds like my Piet. My WB came in at the rear CG with my200+ arse. I built to plans for the long fuselage.You shouldn't have any probs.walt----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Kip,Please ask him about the lead. It was there last time his ship was atBrodhead. I took a picture of it so I know I ain't lyin'.The measurement was with the longerons level fore and aft?chris bobka-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
The truth comes out. I remember him to be slight of build. Is he okhealthwise?Chris Bobka-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Spring:Walt: Just 32 days until spring. Leon S. In Ks. counting the days. I'vebecome a big fan of global warming.________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Leon Stefan"
Leon,Right now crocus are my hero.walt evans----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Gary,This aircraft is Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy and I talked to him about thelanding gear at Brodhead a few years ago.There are three fuselages that Bernard published a drawing for. One is theone shown in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual for the Air Camper (not the"new and improved"). It has a wooden Jenny-style gear.The second is for the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper with the cub stylesteel tube landing gear (really the cub style gear copies the piet since thepiet was first).The third is the fuselage Bernard Pietenpol developed for the corvairpowered piet. No landing gear is shown for this fuselage. It is perfectlyacceptable to mount any acceptable engine on this fueslage. You are notlimited to the corvair. I will refer to this fuselage as the "longfuselage". It is desireable to use the long fueslage because it is about 7inches longer than the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper and the 1932 AirCamper. You fit better in the longer cockpit. Frank Pavliga used the longfuselage for sky gypsy and it originally had a Model A Ford but now has aContinental A-65.The problem is that the long fuselage shifts the loaded center of gravityaft quite a bit. Aerodynamically, this is compensated for by shifting thewing aft. There is no problem here. The problem is that if you takethe1932 wood gear and put it on the long fuselage, the wheels are too farforward. Frank Pavliga did not realize this or otherwise ignored this factfor the first set of gear made for the sky gypsy. The wheels were so farforward that he had much difficulty in getting the tail to raise on takeoff.The airplane ON THE GROUND was far too tail heavy. He built a second set ofwooden gear legs that shifted the axle back (maybe 5 or 6 inches) and thisdistributed the weight more appropriately forward and aft of the axle sothat the plane handled better on the ground. This can be clearly seen whencomparing the photo you posted with the 1932 gear drawings.As an aside, there is a big old lead weight that is tied to one of skygypsy's motor mount tubes indicating that it was easier to intstall thewieght than to mess with tweaking the rigging of the wings if it is therefor aerodynamic purposes or making a new set of gear legs if it is there forwieght distribution for ground handling.Maybe some of the local Ohio boys on the list like Mike Cuy can clue you inbetter than me since they are more familiar with sky gypsy since it lives inOhio.Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson have moved the axle on their wooden gear afton their yet to fly long fuselage A-65 powered ship. Dale has the number athis fingertips and hopefully will post a note here with the figure.Chris Bobka----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Subject: Re: Landing gear question...The axel on our plane is 19" aft of the firewall.Greg Cardinal>>> bobka(at)charter.net 01/13 11:48 AM >>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> "Gary McNeel, Jr."
>>> Gary,>> This aircraft is Frank Pavliga's Sky Gypsy and I talked to him about the> landing gear at Brodhead a few years ago.>> There are three fuselages that Bernard published a drawing for. One isthe> one shown in the 1932 Flying and Glider Manual for the Air Camper (not the> "new and improved"). It has a wooden Jenny-style gear.>> The second is for the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper with the cubstyle> steel tube landing gear (really the cub style gear copies the piet sincethe> piet was first).>> The third is the fuselage Bernard Pietenpol developed for the corvair> powered piet. No landing gear is shown for this fuselage. It isperfectly> acceptable to mount any acceptable engine on this fueslage. You are not> limited to the corvair. I will refer to this fuselage as the "long> fuselage". It is desireable to use the long fueslage because it is about7> inches longer than the 1933 "new and improved" Air Camper and the 1932 Air> Camper. You fit better in the longer cockpit. Frank Pavliga used thelong> fuselage for sky gypsy and it originally had a Model A Ford but now has a> Continental A-65.>> The problem is that the long fuselage shifts the loaded center of gravity> aft quite a bit. Aerodynamically, this is compensated for by shifting the> wing aft. There is no problem here. The problem is that if you take> the1932 wood gear and put it on the long fuselage, the wheels are too far> forward. Frank Pavliga did not realize this or otherwise ignored thisfact> for the first set of gear made for the sky gypsy. The wheels were so far> forward that he had much difficulty in getting the tail to raise ontakeoff.> The airplane ON THE GROUND was far too tail heavy. He built a second setof> wooden gear legs that shifted the axle back (maybe 5 or 6 inches) and this> distributed the weight more appropriately forward and aft of the axle so> that the plane handled better on the ground. This can be clearly seenwhen> comparing the photo you posted with the 1932 gear drawings.>> As an aside, there is a big old lead weight that is tied to one of sky> gypsy's motor mount tubes indicating that it was easier to intstall the> wieght than to mess with tweaking the rigging of the wings if it is there> for aerodynamic purposes or making a new set of gear legs if it is therefor> wieght distribution for ground handling.>> Maybe some of the local Ohio boys on the list like Mike Cuy can clue youin> better than me since they are more familiar with sky gypsy since it livesin> Ohio.>> Greg Cardinal and Dale Johnson have moved the axle on their wooden gearaft> on their yet to fly long fuselage A-65 powered ship. Dale has the numberat> his fingertips and hopefully will post a note here with the figure.>> Chris Bobka>> ----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: lshutks(at)webtv.net (Leon Stefan)
> Subject: Re: Landing gear question...>>> The axel on our plane is 19" aft of the firewall.>> Greg Cardinal>> >>> bobka(at)charter.net 01/13 11:48 AM >>>>>________________________________________________________________________________