Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
After about 6 or 7 hours, I've decided that I might have to do something aboutthe rudder bar. The only way that you can use it is to push/pull yur whole legslike on a sled. I'm so used to working the toes like "flappers" pivoting onthe heels. What am I doing wrong?Thinking of adding uprights to the bar to make them more toe sensitive, or replacingthe bar with standard pedals.Yesterday I seemed to jam up on the rudder and on landing, the thing almost gotaway from me and was up on one wheel and looping to the right. Scared the crapout of me.Anyone else feel this way?I know the bar is good so you don't collapse the rudder horn, but I may have tochange.walt________________________________________________________________________________
Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?Walt,Sure glad you brought up this rudder bar business. After a few real harry landings and some loss of control I laid awake many nights trying to figure out the problem. I seem to want to press right foot when I want to go left and vice verse. Then suddenly I felt I was skippering my Lightning sail boat. When you want to go right you push the tiller to the left and again vise verse. I mentioned this to my I/P last Sat and told him I might think of putting in rudder pedals. I too have not been comfortable with this rudder bar. When you press on the right side you are pivoting to the left. It's just not a natural feel and control. ( For me anyway, as I've NEVER had any directional control problem since I began to fly several years ago.Corky________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?Walt,Sure glad you brought up this rudder bar business. After a few real harry landings and some loss of control I laid awake many nights trying to figure out the problem. I seem to want to press right foot when I want to go left and vice verse. Then suddenly I felt I was skippering my Lightning sail boat. When you want to go right you push the tiller to the left and again vise verse. I mentioned this to my I/P last Sat and told him I might think of putting in rudder pedals. I too have not been comfortable with this rudder bar. When you press on the right side you are pivoting to the left. It's just not a natural feel and control. ( For me anyway, as I've NEVER had any directional control problem since I began to fly several years ago.Corky________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
You could criss-cross the rudder cables so it steers like a bicycle!! (LOL)What makes you think you are doing something wrong? The bar may take somegetting used to, like anything else such as stick versus yoke, etc. I'vealways been so focused on not screwing up that I don't tend to noticewhether I am using a rudder bar/pedal/yoke/stick/side stick/or whatever.I'd say stick with it, but then it's not my airplane that might get damaged.Gene----- Original Message -----
You could criss-cross the rudder cables so it steers like a bicycle!! (LOL)What makes you think you are doing something wrong? The bar may take somegetting used to, like anything else such as stick versus yoke, etc. I'vealways been so focused on not screwing up that I don't tend to noticewhether I am using a rudder bar/pedal/yoke/stick/side stick/or whatever.I'd say stick with it, but then it's not my airplane that might get damaged.Gene----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
No that's not the problem. It's not confusing on which way to turn. Justthat the bar comes in at the middle of the foot, so you find yourselfpushing your toes, and not too much happens. In order for the bar to moveyou have to push/pull your whole leg.When you do it conciously its fine, but come in on a hairy landing andthe past comes back, and the toes don't work too much.Just thinking that if I add a raised portion to the bar it will be catchingmy toes and respond like I think they should.walt----- Original Message -----
No that's not the problem. It's not confusing on which way to turn. Justthat the bar comes in at the middle of the foot, so you find yourselfpushing your toes, and not too much happens. In order for the bar to moveyou have to push/pull your whole leg.When you do it conciously its fine, but come in on a hairy landing andthe past comes back, and the toes don't work too much.Just thinking that if I add a raised portion to the bar it will be catchingmy toes and respond like I think they should.walt----- Original Message -----
> Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder
Original Posted By: Kip & Beth Gardner
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?Walt, I may have spent as much time on a sled as I have flying and I too was concerned about the rudder bar and did put "risers" on them as you mentioned, where I could rest the ball of my foot. Haven't flown or taxied her yet and may find out it's not a problem. But, then there's that old panic situation where you revert to ingrained habits, and I didn't want to gamble on whether I would have my brain re-programed before it occurred !!! Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?Walt, I may have spent as much time on a sled as I have flying and I too was concerned about the rudder bar and did put "risers" on them as you mentioned, where I could rest the ball of my foot. Haven't flown or taxied her yet and may find out it's not a problem. But, then there's that old panic situation where you revert to ingrained habits, and I didn't want to gamble on whether I would have my brain re-programed before it occurred !!! Don Hicks ________________________________________________________________________________
RE: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Walt,I suspect that it will just take a little getting used to. I flew aPietenpol last year and frankly didn't even notice the rudder bar, but Ilearned to fly taildraggers in a J-3 Cub with heel brakes so I got used tousing the rudder pedals with the middle of my foot so I could access thebrakes. When I bought a Cessna 140 with toe brakes I could never seem toget used to them. To me it is more intuitive to dig your heels in to stop.Pushing your toes forward seems to mean "GO".Could it be that your tailwheel steering is too sensitive? Most Pietsattach the tailwheel steering cables to the rudder cables which makes thetailwheel very sensitive, especially on pavement. Maybe weaker tailwheelsteering springs would help your problem.Welding tabs on top of the rudder bar would probably be the easiest solutionto make it feel more like a "normal" airplane.Jack -----Original Message-----
Walt,I suspect that it will just take a little getting used to. I flew aPietenpol last year and frankly didn't even notice the rudder bar, but Ilearned to fly taildraggers in a J-3 Cub with heel brakes so I got used tousing the rudder pedals with the middle of my foot so I could access thebrakes. When I bought a Cessna 140 with toe brakes I could never seem toget used to them. To me it is more intuitive to dig your heels in to stop.Pushing your toes forward seems to mean "GO".Could it be that your tailwheel steering is too sensitive? Most Pietsattach the tailwheel steering cables to the rudder cables which makes thetailwheel very sensitive, especially on pavement. Maybe weaker tailwheelsteering springs would help your problem.Welding tabs on top of the rudder bar would probably be the easiest solutionto make it feel more like a "normal" airplane.Jack -----Original Message-----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "Jack Phillips"
peopleThis is interesting topic. I learned to fly in a taildragger. But when Iwent to get some real professional instruction I was put in a 172. Theinstructor kept yelling at me to get off the brakes for steering. I couldnot brake ( no pun) the habit and I still cant. Well many years later I gota chance to fly a champ with the heel brakes and I had a heck of a timesteering. So I think the brakes and rudder medium should be what one feelscomfortable with and design accordingly.John----- Original Message -----
peopleThis is interesting topic. I learned to fly in a taildragger. But when Iwent to get some real professional instruction I was put in a 172. Theinstructor kept yelling at me to get off the brakes for steering. I couldnot brake ( no pun) the habit and I still cant. Well many years later I gota chance to fly a champ with the heel brakes and I had a heck of a timesteering. So I think the brakes and rudder medium should be what one feelscomfortable with and design accordingly.John----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: Rcaprd(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?In a message dated 4/11/03 6:41:30 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes: its fine, but come in on a hairy landing and the past comes back, and the toes don't work too much. Just thinking that if I add a raised portion to the bar it will be catching my toes and respond like I think they should. walt >>Walt,I know what you mean, and it is also been a concern of mine. I also had a couple of scary landings, but I attributed it to lack of experience. I put 25 hrs on my Piet last summer, and I'm finally used to moving my whole leg to get the intended control input. I put a coat of polyester resin, and one layer of fiberglass cloth where my heal slides on the floor. I sanded, cleaned and preped the area, and used just enough resin to make it glossy. It allows even tennis shoes to slide, and it seems to work well for me. I don't think a tab should be added to the top of the bar, because this will cause the rudder bar to torque on the pivit bolt, possibly causing a failure. I am considering raising the whole bar, to fit to a better place in the ball of my foot, so some toe action can be used. Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?In a message dated 4/11/03 6:41:30 PM Central Daylight Time, wbeevans(at)worldnet.att.net writes: its fine, but come in on a hairy landing and the past comes back, and the toes don't work too much. Just thinking that if I add a raised portion to the bar it will be catching my toes and respond like I think they should. walt >>Walt,I know what you mean, and it is also been a concern of mine. I also had a couple of scary landings, but I attributed it to lack of experience. I put 25 hrs on my Piet last summer, and I'm finally used to moving my whole leg to get the intended control input. I put a coat of polyester resin, and one layer of fiberglass cloth where my heal slides on the floor. I sanded, cleaned and preped the area, and used just enough resin to make it glossy. It allows even tennis shoes to slide, and it seems to work well for me. I don't think a tab should be added to the top of the bar, because this will cause the rudder bar to torque on the pivit bolt, possibly causing a failure. I am considering raising the whole bar, to fit to a better place in the ball of my foot, so some toe action can be used. Chuck Gantzer________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
----- Original Message -----
----- Original Message -----
Re: Pietenpol-List: Is anybody else not satisfied with the rudder bar?
Original Posted By: "walter evans"
Thanks for all the input. I've weighed all the pros and cons , and decidedto stick with the bar, at least to give it a fair shake. Went up thismorning to some pretty stiff breeze. the answer for me personally it to notdrag my heels at all , and get the tootsies up where I'm more working therudder with the heels, and the leg push/pull seems to come easier. guess mybrain wants to "flap" my feet as soon as it feels the heels go down.The landing was much more of a "in control" feeling.thanks everyone.walt----- Original Message -----
Thanks for all the input. I've weighed all the pros and cons , and decidedto stick with the bar, at least to give it a fair shake. Went up thismorning to some pretty stiff breeze. the answer for me personally it to notdrag my heels at all , and get the tootsies up where I'm more working therudder with the heels, and the leg push/pull seems to come easier. guess mybrain wants to "flap" my feet as soon as it feels the heels go down.The landing was much more of a "in control" feeling.thanks everyone.walt----- Original Message -----