Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Miller, Matt (CEI-Atlanta)"
Howdy, folks;I've been to the Rockies and seen John Dilatush's Subaru-powered Piet and all I can say is... WOW! The problem with people on this list is that you just can't get 'em to toot their own horns! John's Piet is a masterpiece, and I got some great photos of it. I just got back home after 4 days and 2100 miles on the road, but as soon as I get the photos downloaded I'll set up a webpage so all y'all can see the outstanding workmanship and really innovative installation that John has done. It's an eye-popper.And thanks, John, for your hospitality and some of that Rocky Mountain "rare air"!More to come...Oscar ZunigaSan Antonio, TXmailto: taildrags(at)hotmail.comwebsite at http://www.flysquirrel.net________________________________________________________________________________Subject: Pietenpol-List: brazing 4130Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 14:39:37 -0400

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
>>I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks, pullies,bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. I am now readingthat you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole assembly surelooks good and strong. Matt>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:36:46 -0400

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
>>I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks, pullies,bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. I am now readingthat you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole assembly surelooks good and strong. Matt>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:44:28 -0400

Original Posted By: "w b evans"
>>I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks, pullies,bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. I am now readingthat you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole assembly surelooks good and strong. Matt>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Mike
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brazing 4130

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Gary,You know, the human mind is a strange thing,,,,on the ground , the threestooge thing gives us a chuckle, but in the air stuff like that does crossmy mind.Just today, I wanted to fly really bad. The wind on the ground was lightbut with the strong sun made thermals like I was riding a bucking bronco.You have this feeling that with each shot, something just flew off the back.Ain't life a kick!walt evans----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:>> "Miller, Matt (CEI-Atlanta)"
>>Gary,>You know, the human mind is a strange thing,,,,on the ground , the three>stooge thing gives us a chuckle, but in the air stuff like that does cross>my mind.>Just today, I wanted to fly really bad. The wind on the ground was light>but with the strong sun made thermals like I was riding a bucking bronco.>You have this feeling that with each shot, something just flew off the back.>Ain't life a kick!>walt evans>>----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gary McNeel, Jr." >To: >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brazing 4130>>snip>>> I think of the flight controls as sort of structural. I wonder if they>brazed the control stick in that old Three Stooges movie where Curly pulls>the stick out tosses it over the side. >>>> -Gary>>>> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Just after I clicked send, thought of this.When I started building, my AP mentor told me something that seemed cute,but just another cleche (sp) that you hear everyday. Now that I am flyingwhat I built, it's the most important bit of advice he ever told me.He said,,,"there is no such thing in aircraft building as " that's goodenough" . Nice to know when you are getting beat around in the wind , orcrossing that tree covered forrest and mountain, that you didn't "halfarse" anything.walt evans----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Richard Finch wrote the Welder's Handbook and also wrote the welding sectionof AC 43-13 so his bias, right or wrong, appears both places. On the otherhand Steve Wittman and his Tailwind builders routinely braze the TailwindTail feathers USING 4130 and vigorously defend the practice. That is whythey call it experimental.Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
Gary, I think we all have to keep the big picture in mind,,,,,if you want to flyin a rush= buy a plane. But if you want a great hobby for your free timewith a big reward at the end= enjoy building.(and my hat is off to the guys with little kids and trying to build,,theyhave to be a special breed)Like I've read so many times, and I know it's true,,,,,at any gathering, ifthe mention comes out that your hobby is to build planes........Don't careif there are brain surgeons there. All the conversation will turn to theairplanes! (including the questions from the brain sergeon)Ain't life grand!!!walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Cy Galley"
I should have added I would NOT braze!Cy GalleyEditor, EAA Safety Programscgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "James Dallas"
I don't know guys. Most of the references I have seen as proof NOT to braze4130 is someone on the internet in a chat room saying not to. I have seenfar more examples of aircraft (and other things, like motorcycles) where4130 WAS brazed and is completely satisfactory. I have done it and seen itdone for years.This prohibition against brazing 4130 seems to be a fairly recent thing asfar as I am aware (which may simply mean that I am unaware). I have beensearching the internet looking at different companies materials propertiespages and have found no authority for such a prohibition. On the otherhand, I have found many sites which refer to brazing 4130 as an acceptablemethod.Can anyone point to some respectable authority saying that it is notallowable?Gene________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Miller, Matt (CEI-Atlanta)
The current line of thought is to scrap any 4130 that is brazed that isprimary structure including the flight controls. Sorry. Should have askedfirst.Chris BobkaEAA Tech counselorA&P IA----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy

Original Posted By: owner-pietenpol-list-server(at)matronics.com
Mike,Check our "How I make Wood Propellers" herehttp://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=5. Around page 42 orso. It's a big pdf file (11Mb) but worth the download.Peter.Wonthaggi, Australiahttp://cpc-world.cable.nu/Pietenpol/pietenpol.htm-----Original Message-----

Original Posted By: "Miller, Matt (CEI-Atlanta)"
MattWhy don't you come out to Carrollton and weld up your stuff. We have 3 verygood tig welders and 3 machines. We have the steel, but haven't started onthe 7 fuselages yet and there is some free time on the machines. We arewelding up all the wing fittings for all the planes, but you could probablywork yours through with no problem. Tig is as about as easy as it comes.Barry Davis----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "w b evans"
>> >> >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks,pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. Iam now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The wholeassembly sure looks good and strong. Matt> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Gary McNeel, Jr."
>> >> >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks,pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. Iam now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The wholeassembly sure looks good and strong. Matt> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:21:38 -0400

Original Posted By: Isablcorky(at)aol.com
>>>>> >>> >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks,>pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. I>am now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole>assembly sure looks good and strong. Matt>> >>> >>>>>>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Cy Galley"
>> >> >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube, sticks,pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. Iam now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The wholeassembly sure looks good and strong. Matt> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "w b evans"
> >> > > >> > >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube,sticks,> pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them. I> am now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole> assembly sure looks good and strong. Matt> > >> > >> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By:> >> "Miller, Matt (CEI-Atlanta)"
>> >> >Gary,> >You know, the human mind is a strange thing,,,,on the ground , the three> >stooge thing gives us a chuckle, but in the air stuff like that doescross> >my mind.> >Just today, I wanted to fly really bad. The wind on the ground was light> >but with the strong sun made thermals like I was riding a bucking bronco.> >You have this feeling that with each shot, something just flew off theback.> >Ain't life a kick!> >walt evans> >> >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gary McNeel, Jr." > >To: > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brazing 4130> >> >snip>> >> I think of the flight controls as sort of structural. I wonder if they> >brazed the control stick in that old Three Stooges movie where Curlypulls> >the stick out tosses it over the side. > >>> >> -Gary> >>> >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------

Original Posted By: "Gene Rambo"
> >>> >> >> >> >> >I recently completed all interior flight controls...torque tube,sticks,> >pullies, bell crank. I built exactly like the plans said, I brazed them.I> >am now reading that you can't braze 4130. Any comments on this? The whole> >assembly sure looks good and strong. Matt> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> >>>________________________________________________________________________________