Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "Ed Grentzer"
per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show the poormanufacture of the cables.keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them yesterday.Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also you can see thetool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper airworthy swagesand these are not it.Would anyone here trust these on major components??http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpgDJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
DJ I've been sailing and working on sailboats for 30 years and I've considered useing sailboat cables on my Piet because the shop that makes the cables up is 5 miles from me and their workmanship is top notch ( sailboat cables carry unbelieveable loads). But I didn't because they were not " aircraft" fittings. I have never seen such sorry swages as the ones you just posted. It looks like they have used a fitting one size bigger than the cable. The top edge of the fitting should be compressed tight enough to the cable to be almost water tight. Yours look like you could stick a toothpick between the cable and the fitting!!! And the tool marks!! it looks like they used a swageing die that matches the size of the cable...not the oversized fitting. You're right..do not use those cables for anything but maybe tying up your dog. You need to send those pictures to someone at ACS!>From: "DJ Vegh" >Reply-To: pietenpol-list(at)matronics.com>To: >Subject: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable pictures>Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:19:22 -0700>>>per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show the poor>manufacture of the cables.>>keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them yesterday.>>Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also you can see the>tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper airworthy swages>and these are not it.>>Would anyone here trust these on major components??>>http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg>>DJ Vegh>N74DV>Mesa, AZ>www.imagedv.com/aircamper>>>->>Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
DJ,Send them back and make them do it again. Just from the pictures, they areunairworthy.Chris bobkaA&P with Inspection Authorization----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Greg Cardinal"

Original Posted By: Jeff Cours
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: spruce suppliersJeff,I've had excellent service and quality from Edensaw in Port Townsend, Washington. My first Piet I used Douglas Fir and for Repiet I ordered Sitka Spruce,6 pcs 2X6, 16 ft long. More than enough for a Piet. You will have to have use of a large table saw for riping, large joiner and planer. Cost was $8.50 bd ft.If you calculate the cost by bd ft of the spruce in the supply catalogs you will pay in excess of $25. Freight was about $125 from Wa to La.If interested, contact me direct for the man to contact etc.Corky in La________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:41:10 -0700

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
DJ,I'm certainly not saying to use them but I would love to see what they pulltested to...Maybe someone should send them a cable done properly.Al Latham----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Al Latham"
I'd love to pull test one but I don't have the proper rig for such testing.Does anyone on the list have a way of pull testing a cable?DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
DJ,Send them to me. Dale and I can pull test them with a calibrated testingjig.Greg Cardinal5236 Shoreview Ave. So.Minneapolis, MN 55417----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By:
sweet! I'll take you up on that offer. I'll send them on Monday.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "DJ Vegh"
DJ,We will mark the cables at the point they enter the end fitting so we cantell if they slip. We will then test them to 60% of the rated cablestrength. Keep in mind that this test WILL elongate any thimbles that areinstalled; this is a good thing because the initial stretching is donebefore the plane flies. This will save some adjusting later on.Greg CardinalPh. 612 721-6235----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
I'm still not going to use them even if they pull test ok. Pull testingwon't change the fact that they do not meet 43.12 spec. I'm doing thisjust to see "if they would hold".DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
Jim.... it's cool I know youre not trying to pick at me......Jim Irwin at AS&S has emailed me regarding the cables. He said they arefarmed out to ACS Systems, which I found out is run by someone in hisfamily. To the best of my knowledge they are not a FAA certified repairstation.Jim Irwin said the cables were checked with a no-go guage. He made nomention of pull testing. I doubt they were tested with a no-go guage but ifthey were then they were only tested on one axis.Like I was saying.... if they pull test ok that is only half the equation...they may pull test ok now, but after hours and hours of use who knows whatthey may do. They need to pull test ok AND be swaged properly.DJ VeghN74DVMesa, AZwww.imagedv.com/aircamper----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jim Ash

Original Posted By: "w b evans"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AS&S - cable picturesDJ,There's a lot of interest in this from all of us who want to offer helpful input in the test you plan to do. I want to add my 2 cents and perhaps this will generate some more helpful discussion. I hope to learn not only whether oursupplier is selling bogus parts... but also to learn more about our beloved Piet design so that we all know more about the machine we are building and flying.It makes no difference to me where AS&S gets the parts they sell, as long as they are aircraft quality. But where the FAA is concerned, if AS&S is sellingparts as "approved" parts, it is AS&S's responsibility to ensure that their suppliers are providing aircraft quality parts. Ultimately, as the installer WE (under the guidance of our DAR) are responsible to ensure the airworthinessof the parts we install. One technicality here (from the FAA standpoint) is that AS&S can sell parts without a PMA or TSO approval and it becomes 100% OURresponsibility to determine airworthiness. This is where our suppliers can get us in trouble as amateur aircraft builders. WE have to make sure we don'tplace all our trust that our suppliers are always providing "qualified" parts.The FAA removes this sort of doubt for certified airplanes, because the parts must be "approved" to be legally installed onto a TC'd airplane. Experimental airplanes are not so. Therefore, we have to be the ones to auditour own suppliers.I applaud your effort here. The issue at hand is to audit our standby supplier AS&S and I believe we should hold them accountable for supplying us withaircraft quality parts. I have not followed this close enough to recall specifically which cable end is the subject of this discussion. But based on thesize of the cable, there should be some load rating for the cable. The test should be applicable to this rating. There should be no sign of deformation oryielding up to and including that point. So, let me pose a question for thought.What loads are you planning to test to? Let's be sure to get the test load right. I think I read on one of these messages that 62% was planned...or something. From an engineering standpoint, you would want to test beyond the operational and maximum loads it will see. A TC'd aircraft manufacturer would design a cable rated high enough to withstand the maximum anticipated load plus a marginof safety (usually a factor of at least 1.5 X maximum load.) In our case, BHP selected this size of cable based on experience and his gut sense of engineering. Keep this in mind as you test the cable and interpret the results.Think about the application on the Piet and the maximum load it will see. Letstake this opportunity to check BHP to make sure the cable is the appropriate size for our application.And finally, in auditing AS&S's cable end, it sure had better meet the rating or they are going to hear from a lot of us. Terry Bowdenph (254) 715-4773fax (254) 853-3805________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Jim Ash"
My AP mentor makes these cables, and described the spiral swaging , that Iguess are the same as yours. From what he said the swager starts at one endand spirals around and around, like a thread till it becomes one with thecable. By the looks of your photo the ends were never really done. theskirt at the end shouldn't have any space to be looked into.Seems like the guy doing the work either had the wrong tool, or just didn'tknow what he was doing. Or was just Gooshing them in a vice.The finished product should be round.Scarey!!!walt evansNX140DL----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Jeff Cours
> >> >> >per request of a few members I have taken some shots that show the poor> >manufacture of the cables.> >> >keep in mind.... THIS IS THE SECOND SET. I just got them yesterday.> >> >Look at the gap in the wide dimension of the "oval". Also you can see the> >tool marks gouged into the swaged end. I have seen proper airworthy swages> >and these are not it.> >> >Would anyone here trust these on major components??> >> >http://www.imagedv.com/aircamper/ACS-cables.jpg> >> >DJ Vegh> >N74DV> >Mesa, AZ> >www.imagedv.com/aircamper> >> >> >-> >> >>>Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.>>________________________________________________________________________________Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 14:13:03 -0700