Brodhead Pietenpol Association

Original Posted By: "catdesign(at)intergate.com"
Hello All,I'm about to enter the fray, but before I do, I have a few questions, and would appreciate the wisdom of the group.First a little background info: I teach six-grade science and am planning on building a Piet in my classroom. My plans are to build the tail feathers, ribs, and fuse sides before taking it home to finish. I have experience with building R/C models, musical instruments, a couple of small boats, furniture, my house, etc, and I have long wanted to build an airplane, so this is not a spur of the moment idea.Thanks to small grant, I have about $600 to start, and I thought I could buy the plans, glue, and wood for the tail feathers. Anyway, on to the questions:I'm trying to decide which glue would be best to use in a classroom. I'm a little concerned about allergic sensitivity with T-88, and my experience with epoxy is such that I've had a few failures that leave me a little hesitant to use it. Given that, I'm considering using Aerolite, but I'm wondering what kind of odor it has? Is there a sensitivity issue with it, and/or does it have a strong odor? I don't want my kids getting sick, and all it would take is one negative experience to get my project booted out of school.I'd like to be able to give rides, but that front cockpit looks like it would be a bear to get in and out of. I checked out the plans for a front door, but wonder if it is structurally sound. I couldn't find much about it in the archives. I know it will add weight, but is there any consensus on this modification?Before plunging in, I'd like to try a Piet on for size. Is there anyone in southern Ohio who would let me look at a real live Piet and sit in the cockpit? I'm not asking for a free ride, I just want to see if I fit and how hard it is to get into the front cockpit. (I'm 5' 10" and 225 lbs.)Thanks for considering my questions,BruceCell phone switch rules are taking effect find out more here. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/consumerad ... ______Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2003 11:17:30 -0600

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol as a School ProjectIn a message dated 12/11/03 10:27:52 AM Central Standard Time, bruce___@hotmail.com writes:>Hi Bruce !Why wasn't there any teachers like you when I was in school ?? !! This is just the kind of project that will spur the imagination of those kids !!> My experience with Aerolite is that it has a similar odor as T88, only it has failed a test that I did with it. I use T88 exclusively now, and have no allergic reactions. I would suggest that everyone use surgical gloves, and maybe even a plastic apron. I know how messy kids can be !! > I am 6' tall, 205 lbs, and I have just a little bit of trouble getting in and out of the front pit, and I still have the 'X' cables on the right side of the cockpit. Getting in and out of the back pit is routine. Adding a frontdoor adds complexity, weight, and weakens the structure. Forget about the door.>Terry B. - isn't he about your size ?Chuck GantzerWichita KSNX770CG"From trees & rags, to Stick & Rudder...Pietenpol's are Forever !!________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: Gnwac(at)cs.com
Gesh, I don't know about a Piet as a 6th grade school project. Aren't thosekids still trying to color in between the lines? But seriously, a Piet is aseveral year process and if you had a few of them work every class periodfor weeks, I doubt you would have much of anything that looks like anaircraft. Maybe only the tail feathers or a handful of ribs. I would think6th graders would need a little bit more instant gratification to stayinterested. I don't want to be a stick in the mud here, but a Piet projectmay be a little out of reach for them.If the goal is to take a year or three and build the whole plane, try asimpler design, like a Volksplane. Real basic wooden construction. Thatway the original students to start the project may still be in Junior Highor High School and get to see the finished plane.Again, I don't want to stop you here... I wish there were more teachers likeyou.Robert HainesDu Quoin, Illinois________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
WORK_AT_HOMEThanks to all for your replies. Youve talked me out of the door idea, and the Aerolite glue doesnt sound like the way to go either. I think Ill use the T-88 and get gloves, masks, and exhaust the fumes outside. I think Ill be okay if I glue up small batches near the end of the day and run the exhaust fan overnight. Sound reasonable?Robert, you make some good points. 6th graders have a wide range of abilities some cant even color between the lines while others are quite handy- but they are young enough to still be interested in learning. Right now I have a student who is building a rubber powered FF model. I have him come in during lunch so that we can work without the other students bothering us, and I have been amazed at his abilities. I show him what to do, and he does it with great precision. The secret to working with kids of this age is to break down the job into small bits and work with only one or two students at a time. For my Piet, I expect it to take 10 years, and I imagine that Ill only build the tail feathers and the ribs in class. I will do the major work at home, and bring in the pieces ready to glue. Maybe Ill build a miter box/jig and cut the rib pieces at school. I know that many wont get to see the project finished, but I think its valuable for them to actually build something rather than just push papers around.The Volksplane is probably a good idea, but Ive always wanted a Piet :-)Thanks for your input!BruceWonder if the latest virus has gotten to your computer? Find out. Run the FREE McAfee online computer scan! ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Bruce __"
Bruce,Aerolite IS the way to go. Mix the powder with water and put it on oneside, brush a liquid activator on the other side and you can wait a fewminutes if you want before joining.Put the two pieces together and nail or weight it down for clamping andvoila. There is no better way to build ribs than this.Chris Bobka----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: dan john

Original Posted By: "Kent Hallsten"

Original Posted By: "Kent Hallsten"
Yes, Kent. I used Aerolite for my ribs and have had no problem. They werebuilt 10 years ago. I used mahoghany ply gussets.If you guys used birch ply, did you scuff sand the whole sheet of plywood tobreak the glaze as recommended by Bingelis?chrisin minneapolis, not sacremento----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: Mike
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol as a School Project

Original Posted By: Michael D Cuy

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Chris,Well, you certainly join a lot of others that have used Aerolite on theribs.I'm curious if you made any significant design changes....like to the widthof the fuse or anything else to the original design (I'm assuming you builtthe Air Camper or maybe it was a Scout)?Just curious.Jim in Plano.....bead blasting and powder coating......----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: dan john
Is there a data base for listings of Piets in Canada? I have a pic of C-FTJM andI'd like to find out more about it.Larry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:38:01 -0800 (PST)

Original Posted By: "Jim Markle"
No, Jim These were the Waco Taperwing ribs.Chris----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Larry Ragan"
Re: Canadian Data BaseLook up the registration in the "Transport Canada" database @http://www.tc.gc.ca/aviation/activepage ... lang=eThis will give you some information to work with.KenGn1 2992 Canada----- Original Message -----

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
Putme right on it. ThanksLarry Ragan Jacksonville, Fl. lragan(at)hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________________

Original Posted By: "Christian Bobka"
I give Aerolite positive marks also. Especially for small parts like ribs.My Piet ribs were built 7 years ago with no problems.Paint the resin on the capstrips and hardener on the gussets. Put the gussetin place and aftera couple of seconds you can feel the gusset beginning to set.It holds perfectly while the nails are pounded in.I tried T 88 on a couple of ribs and didn't like it. The T 88 acted like alubricant making the gussets hard tokeep in place while nailing.All testing on Aerolite samples broke the wood, not the glue.Also, I used birch plywood and didn't bother to scuff the surface. Did somesample glue-upson both scuffed and un-scuffed ply. The wood broke on all samples, noproblem withthe glue joints.Greg Cardinal in Minneapolis.----- Original Message -----